Treatment of Eastern Catholics in North America

[Cristiano]

Okay, I’m going to be the lone voice.

First of all Constantine, I am sorry you are experiencing discrimination. I am sure their decision to not let you teach is at least based on ignorance and fear of the unknown.

And I hope you know how much I respect you, so I hope you won’t take too much offense at what I’m about to say, which should come as no surprise.

Based on that long, recently active and contentious thread on mortal versus venial sin, where some Eastern Catholics were retorting that they should keep their own theology, and not abide by Latin theology, why would a Roman Catholic want someone who is transfering to the Eastern Catholic church to teach latin Catholic children theology?

I know you are well versed in Roman Catholic Theology, but how is a Pastor or a Director of Education to be assured that you will not mix up theologies?

What would you say if the child asks, What is the job of the Pope? Or what is the Immaculate Conception or what is a mortal sin? Would you say, in the Roman Church, such and such but in the Eastern Church, such and such.

That is great for adults, but for children? Or will you take off the Eastern hat and put on the Latin hat when teaching?

I know it was pointed out that there are Eastern Catholics who provide catechesis to latin rite Catholics, but you are new to the Eastern Church. And you are transferring for a reason.

Given my experience with catechism instructors I rather see some Eastern Theology taught to members of the Latin Church than heretical home made interpretations of the CCC or of the Latin CCL. The first is always aligned with the Catholic Dogmas while the latter are in clear disagreement with them. You must understand that there is not Eastern hat or Latin hat, there is only a Catholic hat, anything else is close to be a schismatic hat that tries to separate the Churches that today are in union. At least this is my understanding as a member of the Latin Church.

 

[TrueLight]

. You must understand that there is not Eastern hat or Latin hat, there is only a Catholic hat, anything else is close to be a schismatic hat that tries to separate the Churches that today are in union. At least this is my understanding as a member of the Latin Church.

That’s the way I used to see it. But not after that thread and I don’t want to go back to that thread, but the former is always aligned with Catholic dogmas?

 

[Vico]

Without denying any infallible dogmas, the Magisterium has expressed that there are distinctive theologies in each Catholic rite:

CCEO (1990) Canon 28:

1. A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris. 2. The rites treated in this code, unless otherwise stated, are those which arise from the Alexandrian, Antiochene, Armenian, Chaldean and Constantinopolitan traditions.

 

[TrueLight]

Without denying any infallible dogmas, the Magisterium has expressed that there are distinctive theologies in each Catholic rite:

CCEO (1990) Canon 28:

1. A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris. 2. The rites treated in this code, unless otherwise stated, are those which arise from the Alexandrian, Antiochene, Armenian, Chaldean and Constantinopolitan traditions.

Awesome. I have never seen it expressed that way.

So back to the question, is someone who is finding that he is becoming more attracted to Eastern Spirituality, so much so that he is not only attending the DL, but would like a canonical transfer, the right person to teach an RC class, no matter how much he knows about Latin spirituality?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Okay, I’m going to be the lone voice.

First of all Constantine, I am sorry you are experiencing discrimination. I am sure their decision to not let you teach is at least based on ignorance and fear of the unknown.

And I hope you know how much I respect you, so I hope you won’t take too much offense at what I’m about to say, which should come as no surprise.

Based on that long, recently active and contentious thread on mortal versus venial sin, where some Eastern Catholics were retorting that they should keep their own theology, and not abide by Latin theology, why would a Roman Catholic want someone who is transfering to the Eastern Catholic church to teach latin Catholic children theology?

Well, if parents can tell me what the difference between Eastern and Roman Catholic is besides “you’re not Roman Catholic,” then I will step aside

One who cares enough to transfer on their own means they know a lot about the faith. Or at least very interested in it. I don’t see casual Roman Catholics wander into our parishes. Its usually those who are well informed and curious and wanting to learn more who explore.

I know you are well versed in Roman Catholic Theology, but how is a Pastor or a Director of Education to be assured that you will not mix up theologies?

I have already given my word. Is that not enough?

What would you say if the child asks, What is the job of the Pope? Or what is the Immaculate Conception or what is a mortal sin? Would you say, in the Roman Church, such and such but in the Eastern Church, such and such.

As Blessed Pope John Paul II has said, some truths are better expressed in one tradition over the other. When I teach the Eucharist, do you think 8 year olds will grasp transubstantiation? Perhaps the simple Eastern explanation would suffice.

I’m pretty sure you’ve read the many “is this a mortal sin?” threads here in CAF. Do you think 8 year olds will grasp what a mortal sin is explained that way? What if I say, “when you do something wrong you need to tell a priest about it in Confession and listen to his advice.” Thats a very Eastern way to think about it, does it violate any Western theology?

Do you think kids will be interested in an in-depth answer of the Absolute Petrine view?

That is great for adults, but for children? Or will you take off the Eastern hat and put on the Latin hat when teaching?

Why do I have to take off one hat? I know enough of Western theology that will apply to children to know that what I teach will point to that spirituality. I have spoken to many Roman Catholics in a very Eastern way without revealing I am Eastern Catholic and they always agree with what I have to say. The way you speak here is as if the faith is different. It is not. The expression, the understanding is different. But you can always get to a level when its really ambiguous and doesn’t really apply to one or the other exclusively. Its not as if we’re going to have a deep discussion on mortal and venial sin, the Papal office, etc.

I know it was pointed out that there are Eastern Catholics who provide catechesis to latin rite Catholics, but you are new to the Eastern Church. And you are transferring for a reason.

And my reason for transfer isn’t because I hate or despise the Roman Catholic Church. No offense, but I’d be more wary of a traditionalist teaching kids in an OF parish because they might inject them with anti-V2 propaganda.

Given my experience with catechism instructors I rather see some Eastern Theology taught to members of the Latin Church than heretical home made interpretations of the CCC or of the Latin CCL. The first is always aligned with the Catholic Dogmas while the latter are in clear disagreement with them. You must understand that there is not Eastern hat or Latin hat, there is only a Catholic hat, anything else is close to be a schismatic hat that tries to separate the Churches that today are in union. At least this is my understanding as a member of the Latin Church.

Agreed. And most teachers I’ve met are absolutely wonderful people who are well intentioned and committed to this calling of forming the next generation of Catholics. But to be frank and honest, many of them aren’t even well catechized themselves and often they are not aware of the issues that the Church are facing today. Failure to address those issues means the kids are heading the same wrong path our generation did.

 

[choliks]

I actually wouldn’t mind if Constantine would teach catechism in our parish. I also wouldn’t mind if he let the kids know in a simple way that the Catholic Church isn’t exclusively Roman. I was really delightfully surprised to see an Eastern Church Patriarch in the conclave to elect the next Pope, because I always thought there was only the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Awesome. I have never seen it expressed that way.

So back to the question, is someone who is finding that he is becoming more attracted to Eastern Spirituality, so much so that he is not only attending the DL, but would like a canonical transfer, the right person to teach an RC class, no matter how much he knows about Latin spirituality?

Take note that I do still attend the OF Mass during Great Feasts on weekdays, and I still keep my First Friday devotion as a personal devotion.

 

[TrueLight]

Well, if parents can tell me what the difference between Eastern and Roman Catholic is besides “you’re not Roman Catholic,” then I will step aside

One who cares enough to transfer on their own means they know a lot about the faith. Or at least very interested in it. I don’t see casual Roman Catholics wander into our parishes. Its usually those who are well informed and curious and wanting to learn more who explore.

I have already given my word. Is that not enough?

As Blessed Pope John Paul II has said, some truths are better expressed in one tradition over the other. When I teach the Eucharist, do you think 8 year olds will grasp transubstantiation? Perhaps the simple Eastern explanation would suffice.

I’m pretty sure you’ve read the many “is this a mortal sin?” threads here in CAF. Do you think 8 year olds will grasp what a mortal sin is explained that way? What if I say, “when you do something wrong you need to tell a priest about it in Confession and listen to his advice.” Thats a very Eastern way to think about it, does it violate any Western theology?

Do you think kids will be interested in an in-depth answer of the Absolute Petrine view?

Why do I have to take off one hat? I know enough of Western theology that will apply to children to know that what I teach will point to that spirituality. I have spoken to many Roman Catholics in a very Eastern way without revealing I am Eastern Catholic and they always agree with what I have to say. The way you speak here is as if the faith is different. It is not. The expression, the understanding is different. But you can always get to a level when its really ambiguous and doesn’t really apply to one or the other exclusively. Its not as if we’re going to have a deep discussion on mortal and venial sin, the Papal office, etc.

And my reason for transfer isn’t because I hate or despise the Roman Catholic Church. No offense, but I’d be more wary of a traditionalist teaching kids in an OF parish because they might inject them with anti-V2 propaganda.

Agreed. And most teachers I’ve met are absolutely wonderful people who are well intentioned and committed to this calling of forming the next generation of Catholics. But to be frank and honest, many of them aren’t even well catechized themselves and often they are not aware of the issues that the Church are facing today. Failure to address those issues means the kids are heading the same wrong path our generation did.

Well, you answered each objection pretty well (save the comment about traditionalists ).

I don’t have anything to say except in your particular case, I’m sure you’d do a fantastic job teaching.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well, you answered each objection pretty well (save the comment about traditionalists ).

I don’t have anything to say except in your particular case, I’m sure you’d do a fantastic job teaching.

I’m well aware of every side, even though here in CAF I take one side I can easily take another if need be. Like I said, I view East and West as compatible and complementary, I wouldn’t have any qualms teaching the Western praxis if that is called for. In fact, during the heated exchanges I had where I totally lost my charity, I turned Traditional Latin so fast…

And speaking of Traditionalists, I’m just making an example. And its true. I did plan to teach the kids how to properly receive all ways (standing, kneeling, COTT, CITH). The danger is if someone starts talking about how borderline invalid or irreverent CITH is. The kids are just starting to form their faith, then you will confuse them with a message contrary to what the Church herself says. Chances are that confused kid will be an agnostic rather than a traditional Catholic.

TO ADD:

One of my previous Roman Catholic pastors has had one of the best explanations on why we should attend Mass every Sunday. And its not, “its a mortal sin and you will go to hell.” Had I taught, I would have used his teaching which he said Mass is spiritual food, much like you eat food when you are hungry, you need to be nourished by the liturgy at least once a week to keep your spirit healthy.

 

[Cristiano]

That’s the way I used to see it. But not after that thread and I don’t want to go back to that thread, but the former is always aligned with Catholic dogmas?

I am not sure if I understand your question correctly. My statement is that the theology of the Eastern Catholic Churches is aligned with the Church dogmas established specifically to address theological issues in the Latin world. The Popes and the Magisterium accept the theology of the Eastern Catholic Churches because they do not contradict (thus heretical) such dogmas.