Trent Horn debate with James White: watch here!

[steve_b]

God bless Steve b and every readers of the CAF.

**THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS OF OUR SALVATION (GOD’S CHILDREN/ELECT)
**

**First: **
You should read my above statement more carefully, you didn’t noticed the word ELECT.

God knows the elect. We don’t.
L:

**Second: **
You should know, in Catholic Theology only the reprobates end up in hell who are already predestined to hell before the foundation of the world for their vehement rejection of God and His grace.

You don’t know who those are. THEY don’t know who they are. Just like the elect don’t know who they are.

And Jesus already told us in advance how many make it to heaven.

• Few. #[40 (https://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14568888&postcount=40)

Since those in purgatory go to heaven. They are counted in the few

The rest then are on the wide easy road to hell.
L:

For the above reason, their names taken out from the Book of Life before the foundation of the world.

Jesus knew all that. And He said those who make it to heaven are few. #[40 (https://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14568888&postcount=40)
L:

**Third: **
It is disrespectful to cross out others writings, I would never do that with your writings.

My apologies,

I’ll just highlight the text next time that I’m addressing.
L:

**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE ***Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

**

I know

**

**

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience. End quote. Emphasis added.

BOOK OF LIFE

God has completed the Book of Life before the foundation of the world by taking out the names of the reprobates from the Book of Life for their vehement rejection of God and His grace and as the results they all end up in hell.

From the completion, the Book of life admits NEITHER ADDITIONS no ERASURES.

Some people can be confused about the Book of Life, because God has completed the Book of Life in His “chronological order” before the foundation of the world, but in the Bible concerning the events in the Book of Life, for our understanding, written in our chronological order, like the cancellation from the Book of Life done at our present time, this is not the case.

This fact can cause confusion, because someone may wrongly conclude; God’s child/elect can lose salvation, which is a theological impossibility.

Continue

What part of that does Jesus not know? #[40 (https://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14568888&postcount=40)

 

[steve_b]

Continuation

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan

Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS.

ANNEX TO THE OFFICIAL COMMON STATEMENT

C) Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25). "Grace creates faith not only when faith begins in a person but as long as faith lasts“ (Thomas Aquinas, S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3).The working of God’s grace does not exclude human action: God effects everything, the willing and the achievement, therefore, we are called to strive (cf. Phil 2:12 ff). "As soon as the Holy Spirit has initiated his work of regeneration and renewal in us through the Word and the holy sacraments, it is certain that we can and must cooperate by the power of the Holy Spirit…“ (The Formula of Concord, FC SD II,64f; BSLK 897,37ff).

D) Grace as fellowship of the justified with God in faith, hope and love is always received from the salvific and creative work of God (cf. JD 27). But it is nevertheless the responsibility of the justified not to waste this grace but to live in it. The exhortation to do good works is the exhortation to practice the faith (cf. BSLK 197,45). The good works of the justified „should be done in order to confirm their call, that is, lest they fall from their call by sinning again“ (Apol. XX,13, BSLK 316,18-24; with reference to 2 Pet. 1:10. Cf. also FC SD IV,33; BSLK 948,9-23). In this sense Lutherans and Catholics can understand together what is said about the "preservation of grace“ in JD 38 and 39. Certainly, "whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it“ (JD 25).

1. The doctrine of justification is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion. In this sense, the doctrine of justification is an "indispensable criterion which constantly serves to orient all the teaching and practice of our churches to Christ“ (JD l8). As such, it has its truth and specific meaning within the overall context of the Church’s fundamental Trinitarian confession of faith. We "share the goal of confessing Christ in all things, who is to be trusted above all things as the one Mediator (1 Tim 2:5-6) through whom God in the Holy Spirit gives himself and pours out his renewing gifts“ (JD 18).

God bless Steve b and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Again, what part of all that does Jesus not know when He said the following? #40

 

[MT1926]

Continuation

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan

Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS.

ANNEX TO THE OFFICIAL COMMON STATEMENT

C) Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25). "Grace creates faith not only when faith begins in a person but as long as faith lasts“ (Thomas Aquinas, S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3).The working of God’s grace does not exclude human action: God effects everything, the willing and the achievement, therefore, we are called to strive (cf. Phil 2:12 ff). "As soon as the Holy Spirit has initiated his work of regeneration and renewal in us through the Word and the holy sacraments, it is certain that we can and must cooperate by the power of the Holy Spirit…“ (The Formula of Concord, FC SD II,64f; BSLK 897,37ff).

D) Grace as fellowship of the justified with God in faith, hope and love is always received from the salvific and creative work of God (cf. JD 27). But it is nevertheless the responsibility of the justified not to waste this grace but to live in it. The exhortation to do good works is the exhortation to practice the faith (cf. BSLK 197,45). The good works of the justified „should be done in order to confirm their call, that is, lest they fall from their call by sinning again“ (Apol. XX,13, BSLK 316,18-24; with reference to 2 Pet. 1:10. Cf. also FC SD IV,33; BSLK 948,9-23). In this sense Lutherans and Catholics can understand together what is said about the "preservation of grace“ in JD 38 and 39. Certainly, "whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it“ (JD 25).

1. The doctrine of justification is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion. In this sense, the doctrine of justification is an "indispensable criterion which constantly serves to orient all the teaching and practice of our churches to Christ“ (JD l8). As such, it has its truth and specific meaning within the overall context of the Church’s fundamental Trinitarian confession of faith. We "share the goal of confessing Christ in all things, who is to be trusted above all things as the one Mediator (1 Tim 2:5-6) through whom God in the Holy Spirit gives himself and pours out his renewing gifts“ (JD 18).

God bless Steve b and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Latin why are you posting this again? I already went over this with you. None of this is binding on Catholics. It’s the beginning statements of a joint venture among Catholics and Lutherans that might take another 1000 years to come to a conclusion.

God Bless

 

[MT1926]

God bless MT and every readers of the CAF.

Thank you for your advise MT, I have spoken with my Spiritual Director.

What did your spiritual director have to say?

Have you let him/her read what you are posting here?

What is his/her thoughts?

What is his/her advice?

What did they have to say about you using the Joint Declaration as binding authority?

I’m not trying to be unkind, but as you can see Steve has also posted that you are picking and choosing to come up with your doctrine.

God Bless

 

[LatinRight]

God bless MT and every readers of the CAF.

ANNEX TO THE OFFICIAL COMMON STATEMENT

C) Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25).

D) Certainly, "whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it“ (JD 25).

1. The doctrine of justification is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion. In this sense, the doctrine of justification is an "indispensable criterion which constantly serves to orient all the teaching and practice of our churches to Christ“ (JD l8).

MT better get used to it because the above DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion.

Not only because the Catholic Church’s DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION say so but because the Scripture say so too.

By the way, the best Catholic Theologians working on it about 30 or more years if I remember correctly.

Seems like to me, you MT elevate yourself above those best Catholic theologians who working on very long time on justification and salvation WHICH IS IN REALITY GOD’S FREE GIFT MERITED US BY CHRIST ON THE CROSS!!!

If you would know the Scripture and you would have logic or at least you would use your logic, you would know, our salvation is God’s FREE GIFT and NO ONE can work for it.

If you believe you have to work for it, you rejecting God’s FREE GIFT OF SALVATION and you rejecting THE CROSS of Christ.

There is NO FAITH + WORKS salvation in Catholic Theology, only false teachers teaching faith + works salvation for their destruction. – 2 Pet.2:1-3.

You may ask from someone whom you given a free gift to work for it for you but God does NOT and you should know that, seems like you don’t!!!

Seems like to me, your greatest shortcoming is you neither know the Scripture nor the official teaching of the Catholic Church on justification/salvation, Predestination of the elect, Conditions must be present to make supernatural possible, etc. etc.

I’m sorry to tell you, without a good knowledge of those official teachings of the Church and without a good knowledge of the Scripture anyone is in SPIRITUAL DARKNESS!!!

I studied very well the above official teachings of the Church and I can tell you MT the best teachings in all Christianity. – I wish the faith + works teacher know it.

I also continually study the Scripture more then 25 years, I probable read many parts of it more the 200 times, in fact according the teachings of the Catholic Church we can understand the Scripture.

Catholic Church officially teach we can understand the Scripture please see: CATHOLIC SENSIBILITY, DEI VERBUM 21 and also the following teachings:

The Catholic Understanding of the Bible by Fr. John Harden SJ.
Quote: “The Scriptures are holy because their main author is the all-holy God. But they are also holy because they are able to sanctify those who READ the Bible as NO OTHER LITERATURE in the world is capable of doing.

**St. Thomas does not hesitate to speak of the Scriptures as a KIND OF SACRAMENT.

SIMULAR to what happens when we receive BAPTISM or the EUCHARIST.**

The same Holy Spirit who first inspired the Bible CONTINUES TO ENLIGHTEN those who now READ the Bible.” End quote. Emphasize mine.

[CCC 108]; Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.”
Christianity is a religion of the “Word” of God, “not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living.”

If the Scriptures are not remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures.” End quote.

Please see also: John 14:17-18, 26; John 16:13-15; 1 John 2:26-27; etc.
Only false teachers teaching we cannot understand the Scripture NOT the Catholic Church.

**ABOUT MY SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR
**
He realized even before I told him that my posts based on the Church teachings of ‘Predestination of the elect’ and the ‘Conditions Must be Present to Make Supernatural Possible’ and 1 Cor.3:12-15.

In my posts # 348 and 349 every words is correct,** you can take it to the Bank MT, at least to the Bank of your memory.**

MT if you really understand ‘Predestination of the elect,’ ‘Conditions Must be Present to Make Supernatural Possible’ and 1 Cor.3:12-15.

You must realize every word which written in my posts # 348 and 349 is correct.

If you understand those teachings of the Church** you shouldn’t even need anyone to tell you those posts are correct,** you should realize yourself that those posts are correct.

Of course the condition is: You must understand those official Catholic teachings first, at this stage seems to me, you closed your mind and you don’t want to understand them, don’t even want to know them.

The DOCTRINE of justification is binding is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion.

God bless MT and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[steve_b]

There is NO FAITH + WORKS salvation in Catholic Theology, only false teachers teaching faith + works salvation for their destruction. – 2 Pet.2:1-3.

Latin, just a few thoughts.

that’s faith apart from works of the law. NOT faith apart from good works. See section (JD 25) from the “Joint Declaration” document , that follows

That’s why Paul says, faith should be working in love. Galatians 5:6

Intellectual faith only, is a dead faith, it won’t save anybody. James 2:14-26
L:

Seems like to me, your greatest shortcoming is you neither know the Scripture nor the official teaching of the Catholic Church on justification/salvation, Predestination of the elect, Conditions must be present to make supernatural possible, etc. etc.

I’m sorry to tell you, without a good knowledge of those official teachings of the Church and without a good knowledge of the Scripture anyone is in SPIRITUAL DARKNESS!!!

I studied very well the above official teachings of the Church and I can tell you MT the best teachings in all Christianity. – I wish the faith + works teacher know it.

I also continually study the Scripture more then 25 years, I probable read many parts of it more the 200 times, in fact according the teachings of the Catholic Church we can understand the Scripture.

in the “Joint Declaration”, “justifying faith” is

“They place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works.” (JD 25). i.e. good works

From:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

That said, “by faith alone”, is anti biblical language. The phrase “by faith alone” validly appears in the New Testament, in James 2:24, however, NOT is in front of it. Therefore, by faith alone is rejected in scripture.

However, for those who insist on using that language, it can be given an acceptable meaning, if one clarifies properly, what they mean by faith alone.

 

[MT1926]

**

MT better get used to it because the above DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION** is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion.

By the way, the best Catholic Theologians working on it about 30 or more years if I remember correctly.

Why should I get used to something that is not binding on Catholics?

What you posted is not the Catholic Churches “DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION”. No matter how many times you post it the truth of the article still remains…

** It does not cover all that either church teaches about justification; it does encompass a consensus on basic truths of the doctrine of justification**

Finally, I will say it again. they are talking about initial justification, not final salvation.

Seems like to me, you MT elevate yourself above those best Catholic theologians

 

[LatinRight]

Latin, just a few thoughts.

that’s faith apart from works of the law. NOT faith apart from good works. See section (JD 25) from the “Joint Declaration” document , that follows

That’s why Paul says, faith should be working in love. Galatians 5:6

Intellectual faith only, is a dead faith, it won’t save anybody. James 2:14-26

in the “Joint Declaration”, “justifying faith” is

“They place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works.” (JD 25). i.e. good works

From:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

That said, “by faith alone”, is anti biblical language. The phrase “by faith alone” validly appears in the New Testament, in James 2:24, however, NOT is in front of it. Therefore, by faith alone is rejected in scripture.

However, for those who insist on using that language, it can be given an acceptable meaning, if one clarifies properly, what they mean by faith alone.

God bless Steve and every readers of the CAF,

I understand your post and I perfectly agree everything you have written.

Only intellectual faith is not God’s gift of formed faith and of course cannot save.

God’s gift is formed faith, which every God’s children/elect receives at baptism as James Akin explains it.

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE? by James Akin

Quote: “In fact, in TRADITIONAL WORKS OF CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, one regularly encounters the statement that FORMED FAITH IS JUSTIFYING FAITH. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period. End quote. Emphasis mine.

**Sola fide formata = FORMED FAITH ALONE
THE COMPOSITE OF GOD’S GIFT OF FORMED FAITH:

a. BELIEF (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)

b. HOPE (Unconditional TRUST in God.)

c. CHARITY (Unconditional LOVE for God.)**

SAME AS THE JOINT DECLARATION DESCRIBES IT AND MAKES It CLEAR TO UNDERSTAND

C) Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25).

If someone don’t understand the Joint Declaration, don’t understand salvation.

Someone Catholics even reject the Joint Declaration mistakenly think it is only for Protestants, of course this mistake puts their good works in great danger because it easily makes the motivation of their works to avoid hell, which works rejected by God.

If a Christian don’t understand, our salvation is God’s free gift, received by grace alone, faith alone, apart from works, and for our good works from our baptism until we die God gives us rewards, don’t understand the heart of salvation.

What some Catholic seems to don’t understand,** it is NOT ENOUGH only to work,** the work we do,** must be decided out of sheer love, freely, without the fear of hell.**

Good work is only which done freely, decided to do out of sheer love for the glory of God, NOT because we need to do it, but because we want to do it.

Works we do for our salvation is wood, hay and straw rejected by God and goes up in smoke at the judgment of our works. – 1 Cor.3:12-15.

God don’t wants that His children love Him for their good deed for the day.

We SHOULD work as much as we can, our works must be DECIDED FREELY out of sheer love for others and to the Glory of God.

From our baptism until we die, we should work as much as we can, NOT BECAUSE we have to, but because we want to, this is the ONLY KIND OF WORK WHICH IS GOOD WORK!!!

God rejects our love and our works which we give to God for our good deed for the day!!!

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

What happen with a child/elect [have a desire to do charity/works (as the desire to do charity/works is a part of God’s gift of formed faith)] if he/she believes if I don’t work I end up in hell **so he/she is doing all his works for his salvation and to enter to heaven?
**

The answer cannot be other:
If he/she believes if I don’t work I end up in hell, then the motivation of work cannot be decided any longer freely, the works done not to end up in hell,** these works is wood, hay and straw, rejected by God.**

As we see above, to do good works, it is crucial to believe:
C) Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25).

If we reject the above statement, we inevitably believe: our entrance to heaven is depends on our works, then we work to enter to heaven and our works rejected by God.

God’s gift of formed faith is given to every child/elect of God, formed faith includes the desire for charity/works, so every child/elect of God want to do charity/works, but the CRUX of the matter is:

What is the motivation of our works, to avoid hell or we want to work do charity NOT BECAUSE IT HELPS US SOMEHOW, but decided freely without the fear of hell, and done out of sheer love for others and for the Glory of God???

WE CANNOT OVER EMPHASIS, TO DO GOOD WORKS / SUPERNATURAL WORKS, IT IS CRUCIAL TO BELIEVE:

C) Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25). – John 5:24; 1 John 5:13; Rom.6:23b; etc.

God is faithful to His Words: **
If some of His children/elect DECEIVED and all their works done to avoid hell, or done to the reason to enter heaven, these works counts for NOTHING,** all their works is wood, hay and straw, rejected by God, **yet they still enter to heaven without rewards. – 1 Cor.3:12-15.
**

God bless Steve and every reader of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[LatinRight]

Why should I get used to something that is not binding on Catholics?

What you posted is not the Catholic Churches “DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION”. No matter how many times you post it the truth of the article still remains…

** It does not cover all that either church teaches about justification; it does encompass a consensus on basic truths of the doctrine of justification**

Finally, I will say it again. they are talking about initial justification, not final salvation.

You’ve got to be kidding me? You accuse me of elevating myself above these theologians for posting a direct quote from their document?

Matthew 7:3 **Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s[a] eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?
**

You accuse me of this after stating on this board that every Apologist, I have quoted, that doesn’t agree with you is wrong.

You know I am starting to wonder if Dr. Anders was correct when he told me “ARE YOU SURE THIS GUY IS CATHOLIC.”

So I am going to have to flat out ask you…Are you a Catholic? or are you just here to muddy the waters?

I did use my logic of the scriptures. I explained every passage you presented and you ignored what I had written. I will posted them here…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14574702&postcount=334
I will re ask the question you wouldn’t answer a weeks ago…
I think the big issue we are having is you have never defined what it means to believe? Maybe if you could do that and show me from the Bible your understanding of what belief is it would help.
For initial justification, yes.
What do you think this means?
Never said we couldn’t understand. However, if you would turn the page the Church gives us rules for interpreting scripture…

1. Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God’s plan, **(We can’t just pick and choose the verses that fit our agenda.)
   **
2. Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church.” (The Catholic Church does teaches the only way to prove you understand scripture is if your interpretation agrees with Hers)
3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By “analogy of faith” we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation. (Just like you can’t just pick and choose Bible verses, you can’t just pick and choose parts of the Church teachings that fit your agenda). Basically, you can’t take the Churches teaching on initial justification and automatically assume it applies to final salvation. Which is what you are doing.
   If your spiritual director believes every word of 348 and 349 are correct, then I believe we just discovered the problem. As Steve already pointed out in his posts 350 & 351, your spiritual director is misleading you into believing something that is not Catholic teaching.

I do understand it. THERE IS NO WAY WITH 100% INFALLIBLE CERTAINTY WE CAN NO THAT WE ARE AMONG THE ELECT.
Yes the Catholic doctrine of justification is binding on Catholics. The one you present is not.
God Bless

God bless MT and every readers of the CAF.

I tell you MT I’m a real Catholic who working on to stop the exodus from the Catholic Church.

Of course I’m in the Catholic Church like a drop of water in the see, but if every Catholic would work on to stop the exodus would be no more exodus.

FOR ME WHAT MEANS TO BELIEVE AS FOLLOWS:

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE? by James Akin

Quote: “In fact, in TRADITIONAL WORKS OF CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, one regularly encounters the statement that FORMED FAITH IS JUSTIFYING FAITH. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period. End quote. Emphasis mine.

**Sola fide formata = FORMED FAITH ALONE
THE COMPOSITE OF GOD’S GIFT OF FORMED FAITH:

a. BELIEF (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)

b. HOPE (Unconditional TRUST in God.)

c. CHARITY (Unconditional LOVE for God.)**

I believe also, the Scripture can be understand in the light of Church teachings.

**I also believe we can understand the Scripture.
**

I believe in my posts # 348 and 349** every word is correct.**

I made my above two posts in the lights of ‘Predestination of the elect,’ Conditions Must be Present to Make Supernatural Works Possible,’ 1 Cor.3:12-15.

Steve examined it apart from the lights of ‘Predestination of the elect,’ Conditions Must be Present to Make Supernatural Works Possible,’ 1 Cor.3:12-15.

So, please test my above two posts in the lights of the ‘Predestination of the elect,’ Conditions Must be Present to Make Supernatural Works Possible,’
1 Cor.3:12-15.

To tell the truth I don’t believe you will find many mistakes, I would be surprised if you will find even one mistake, but my mind is open.

Thank you in advance.

God bless MT and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight