Trent Horn - Does it matter which Christian denomination you belong to?

[benhur]

Actually Benhur, to say that the Lutherans were the first “protestant” church is not totally acurate. While Luther was one the forefront of the reformation, there were already others at work . Luther, and Lutheranism benefited from many governments of the day establishing Lutheranism as the new state religion. Along with the establishment of the Church of England, these two became the primary protestant bastions , but others such as Zwinglii, Calvin , et al were searching scriptures and drawing closer to the actual biblical faith.
Luther was very instrumental, but he was not alone. I feel that the increasing access to scripture was critical to the development of breakaway churches. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and access to the Scriptures empowered people to learn the truth.
As to the OP, yes it does matter in as much as one must use biblical discernment to determine if the church you are attending holds to the fullness of the Gospel and the teachings from the epistles. Now before my Catholic bretheren jump on that last sentence, i said the fullness of the Bible, not the fullness of everything created and added by man on top of the Bible.

Hi P

Yes, I understand your point that indeed the Luther was riding the crest of a wave, formed earlier by the Tyndale’s, Wycliffe’s, or Huss’s and others, not too mention printing press and Renaissance etc. Yes, Luther was big though in all of this.

Hopefully you see my general point that the CC pushed exclusivity, could not maintain universality (no compromise/consensus) at the very beginning of reformation, when there was not 30,000 denominations and was more possible.

Blessings

 

[Memaw]

Hi P

Yes, I understand your point that indeed the Luther was riding the crest of a wave, formed earlier by the Tyndale’s, Wycliffe’s, or Huss’s and others, not too mention printing press and Renaissance etc. Yes, Luther was big though in all of this.

Hopefully you see my general point that the CC pushed exclusivity, could not maintain universality (no compromise/consensus) at the very beginning of reformation, when there was not 30,000 denominations and was more possible.

Blessings

Oh but the Catholic Church HAS retained her Universality, (and always will) . It was those that broke away that lost it and they keep loosing more and more, the greater they follow secular society. God Bless, Memaw

 

[benhur]

Oh but the Catholic Church HAS retained her Universality, (and always will) . It was those that broke away that lost it and they keep loosing more and more, the greater they follow secular society. God Bless, Memaw

Hi M,

Yes, she maintains universality but not as she used to, and has lost O’s and then P’s. It is a challenge to "pacify those that contend’’, as the Didache says.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

While many denominations have kept “some” truths, they have lost the very MOST important ones. Many of the Sacraments. The TRUE Holy Eucharist, (not just a symbol), being the most important. Confession next.

There is another thread dealing with why other denominations have kept many of the sacraments. That is my point, that at the beginning many reformers did keep sacraments to a point , yet they were still expelled. Some denominations are still very close to being Catholic, yet no cigar.

Blessings Re: Sacraments and Protestants

 

[Memaw]

Hi M,

Yes, she maintains universality but not as she used to, and has lost O’s and then P’s. It is a challenge to "pacify those that contend’’, as the Didache says.

Blessings

With the Holy Spirit guiding Her, She will remain the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church she has always been since Jesus Christ founder her. Still teaching HIS Truths. Just look around and see who still defends ALL Christ’s truths and always will. God Bless, memaw

 

[Memaw]

There is another thread dealing with why other denominations have kept many of the sacraments. That is my point, that at the beginning many reformers did keep sacraments to a point , yet they were still expelled. Some denominations are still very close to being Catholic, yet no cigar.

Blessings

They weren’t “expelled”, they just went their own way. To a point is not good enough. If they were in full union with the Catholic Church they wouldn’t have “drifted off” on their own. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

They weren’t “expelled”, they just went their own way. To a point is not good enough. If they were in full union with the Catholic Church they wouldn’t have “drifted off” on their own. Close only counts in Horseshoes. God Bless, Memaw

 

[tskrobacz]

Of course it matters…only one can be right. Choose wisely. Only one was ordained by God himself…by Jesus.

 

[Vadim244]

– Does it matter which Christian denomination you belong to?

Yes. St. John Chrysostom:

“I mean these remarks for those who give themselves up indiscriminately to the men who are dividing the Church. For if on the one hand those men have doctrines also contrary to ours, then on that account further it is not right to mix with them: if, on the other hand, they hold the same opinions, the reason for not mixing with them is greater still. And why so? Because then the disease is from lust of authority. Do you not know what was the fate of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram? (Numbers 16:1-35) Of them only did I say? Was it not also of them that were with them? What will you say? Shall it be said, “Their faith is the same, they are orthodox as well as we”? If so, why then are they not with us? There is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” If their cause is right, then is ours wrong; if ours is right, then is theirs wrong.” (St. John Chrysostom. Homily 11 on Ephesians. Translated by Gross Alexander. From Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, Vol. 13. Edited by Philip Schaff. (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1889.) Revised and edited for New Advent by Kevin Knight. newadvent.org/fathers/230111.htm
)

 

[zz912]

Looked at video, thanks. Interesting that the protestant caller to the radio show pointed out about our “one” faith as emphasizing and leading to be Christ like , and not necessarily “catholic” as in dogma, tradition. Tough to rebut though Trent tried.

Actually I think the caller’s point rebuts itself. He stated that teachers would be leading them to be Christ like. But is that the case? In reality, no.

You have one group of Protestants who teach that abortion is gravely sinful, and others who say it is okay if you have serious reasons.

You have one group of Protestants who claim that sex outside of marriage is ok, or will not cause you to lose your salvation, and another group that says it will damn you.

You have one group of Protestants who claim that divorce is okay, while another group who says it is a sin.

There are many, many more. These are mutually exclusive positions, and one leads you to be more Christ-like and the other leads you away from Christ. So this claim that all will lead towards being more Christ-like is false. Each one teaches some error, and that error leads Christians away from Christ instead of towards Him and unity.

I do believe P’s stress a personal Christ who puts you in His body while Catholics stress participation their church putting you in relation with Christ.

This is a dichotomy only from the point of view of Protestants. In the Catholic view, the closer you grow to the Church, which is the Bride of Christ, and the Body of Christ, the closer you grow to Christ Himself. There is no disunion between them.

Trent ends up saying what many reformers also said, “lets be like the first Christians”.

I think many, many Protestants would be absolutely SHOCKED if they read the writings of the first Christians. Many believe they worship and believe just like those in the New Testament, and would almost have a heart attack to find out how different their beliefs were from those first Christians.

 

[benhur]

They weren’t “expelled”, they just went their own way. To a point is not good enough. If they were in full union with the Catholic Church they wouldn’t have “drifted off” on their own. God Bless, Memaw

No, they were excommunicated. Then at any reconciliation table refused to bend one iota.

Blessings

 

[Duane1966]

No, they were excommunicated. Then at any reconciliation table refused to bend one iota.

Blessings

If we have the fullness of truth, which we believe, then wouldn’t bending even one iota be watering down the truth?

A Brother Who Sins.*

15h “If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.

16* i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

17j If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Jesus sure doesn’t seem to have a problem with excommunication.

 

[benhur]

]If we have the fullness of truth, which we believe, then wouldn’t bending even one iota be watering down the truth?

There is a time for everything, so wisdom teaches. So yes, I am with you and on some things there is no compromise. Then there are others that by holding on to one thing that is supposed righteousness you lose something else unrighteously. St Paul addresses this when dealing with legalism etc…

Jesus sure doesn’t seem to have a problem with excommunication.

Totally agree and St Paul is even stronger with his “turn him over to Satan” (still in hopes of reconciliation i think). But hopefully you can see it still takes wisdom in determining just what has to be listened to from the church. One thing is denying His fleshly death on the cross, another is disagreeing with the selling of indulgences being biblical and from the chair of Peter or apostolic.

Blessings

 

[Memaw]

No, they were excommunicated. Then at any reconciliation table refused to bend one iota.

Blessings

That tells it in a nutshell. Why were they excommunicated??? They had to have been in serious error. God Bless, Memaw

 

[benhur]

That tells it in a nutshell. Why were they excommunicated??? They had to have been in serious error. God Bless, Memaw

No, not really. But yes, serious in telling the Church, or a pope, or a council they could be in any error on a faith matter.

Blessings

 

[cmodrmac]

This is actually a very good question -the words " does it matter" creates a question as to who it matters to-does it matter to the Divine Trinity or the individual or to the community at large or to the Nation-

in the USA with a large population and large communities it likely matters very little to the community as a a whole which denomination a particular individual belongs to

however to small communities say such as the Mennonites the loss of members to another denomination (say Methodists) effects the community as a whole as there is less cohesion and likely more dissent

to the individual it would seem to matter a great deal-one has to find a faith community that agrees with or at least is compatible with what an individual can rationally believe -for example if one believed in modern medicine it would hard to be a Christian Scientist-if one did not believe in the components of the Nicene creed it would be difficul to be a Lutheran or Anglican or Roman catholic

As to the Godhead- “who knows” we will all find out

 

[MartinJordan]

I didn’t see the video link but just going by the OP subject alone It doesn’t matter to the Devil. He knows that Jesus is Lord thus happy when the Church of Christ (believes centered on Christ) continue dividing. It allows him to prey on the differences.

MJ

 

[adf417]

I didn’t see the video link but just going by the OP subject alone It doesn’t matter to the Devil. He knows that Jesus is Lord thus happy when the Church of Christ (believes centered on Christ) continue dividing. It allows him to prey on the differences.

MJ

Great summary!

 

[zz912]

I didn’t see the video link but just going by the OP subject alone It doesn’t matter to the Devil. He knows that Jesus is Lord thus happy when the Church of Christ (believes centered on Christ) continue dividing. It allows him to prey on the differences.

MJ

So all Christians should focus on the prayer and wish of our Lord Jesus and be one. This means dropping the denominational differences and accepting that we may be wrong. Look to find the ONE faith and ONE Church that has existed since Pentecost.

 

[benhur]

So all Christians should focus on the prayer and wish of our Lord Jesus and be one. This means dropping the denominational differences and accepting that we may be wrong. Look to find the ONE faith and ONE Church that has existed since Pentecost.

It also might mean seeing that we are one in Christ even with some differences.

It is easy to love someone who is exactly the same doctrinally and practice wise.