T
tom25
Guest
I know that the mass is being revised and I would like to know, will it impact the availibility of the Tridentine mass?
- Status
T
TrueLight
Guest
Not at all. It’s just the translation that is being revised in the OF missal - what the priests say and the responses of the laity.
usccb.org/romanmissal/examples.shtml
That has nothing to do with the TLM.
P
passus
Guest
We have no reason to believe that it will.
L
Little_One0307
Guest
No reason it should not continue, I see it actually growing.
G
GwenL
Guest
Actually, there is quite a bit more to the Third Edition of the Roman Missal. It is not “just the translation” that is being revised. Many of the rubrics of the Mass are being revised also. There is much less flexibility to ad lib–many fewer places where “and similar words” can be used by the priest. The music selections (and the type of music that can be selected) are also significantly changed.
The new translation itself can’t seriously be described as only “what the priests say and the responses of the laity.” The theological depth of the new translation (compared to the banality of the current) and the connections to Sacred Scripture are really quite amazing.
This is a real reform of the liturgy and has tremendous potential to bring the Ordinary Form of the Mass into compliance with what the Vatican II conciliar fathers envisioned. More Latin, more chant, less opportunity for destructive “creativity.”
I’ve only heard about the directives of the revised GIRM; haven’t seen it yet. Benedictgal has one in hand; perhaps after she is done salivating over the opportunities, she will share.
Now, to the original question. I don’t think this will change at all the availability of the TLM.
T
TrueLight
Guest
Really? That’s news to me. I thought it was basically what is on the page I linked to.
What have you heard?
G
GwenL
Guest
Here is a clip of a blog from Musica Sacra, Msgr Wadsworth:
The implementation of the English translation of the third typical edition of the Roman Missal later this year will be the biggest single moment of change for Catholics who worship in English in the forty years since the revisions of the liturgy which followed Vatican II. It is a moment of unparalleled significance, not least because it represents a natural opportunity to reassess all that we do when we celebrate the Mass. The new edition of the Missal contains more music than any of its predecessors and includes a complete set of chants for the principal parts of the Order of Mass. All the chants of the Latin original have been adapted to the English text.
You will know that a guiding principle in the preparation of this translation has been the desire to render the fullest content of the original Latin in English which is fit for liturgical use. Greater attention to the scriptural resonances in these texts acknowledges Scripture as the largest single source of our liturgy. The elevated register of the language, the euphony of its phrases and the cadence of its orations have all been prepared with the thought that most of these texts are by nature sung. For that reason, and without wishing to exclude the use of other genres where appropriate, the musical language of the Missal is Gregorian Chant.
The General Instruction of the Roman Missal echoes both Sacrasanctum concilium and Musica sacram in proclaiming that ‘All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds first place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.’ [SC, 41]. Attention to this latter quality in response to the implementation of the new translation should in due course bring about a general change in the culture of our liturgical music. If that is the case, then it is long overdue and will be greatly welcomed.
You will know that a guiding principle in the preparation of this translation has been the desire to render the fullest content of the original Latin in English which is fit for liturgical use. Greater attention to the scriptural resonances in these texts acknowledges Scripture as the largest single source of our liturgy. The elevated register of the language, the euphony of its phrases and the cadence of its orations have all been prepared with the thought that most of these texts are by nature sung. For that reason, and without wishing to exclude the use of other genres where appropriate, the musical language of the Missal is Gregorian Chant.
The General Instruction of the Roman Missal echoes both Sacrasanctum concilium and Musica sacram in proclaiming that ‘All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds first place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.’ [SC, 41]. Attention to this latter quality in response to the implementation of the new translation should in due course bring about a general change in the culture of our liturgical music. If that is the case, then it is long overdue and will be greatly welcomed.
T
TheMc
Guest
Gwen, there is some major rubrical changes in the new GIRM.
G
GwenL
Guest
Ummm…this is exactly what I said in post #5.
T
TheMc
Guest
[note to self: read entire thread before responding]
G
GwenL
Guest
…and don’t you think the upcoming changes have tremendous potential to reform the liturgy?
The changes in translation are really profound. The peoples’ parts have some good changes, but the changes to the priest’s parts are amazing.
I think most people still see this as a minor change in a few words, but it is so much more than that with the changes in the rubrics.
The changes in translation are really profound. The peoples’ parts have some good changes, but the changes to the priest’s parts are amazing.
I think most people still see this as a minor change in a few words, but it is so much more than that with the changes in the rubrics.
T
TheMc
Guest
You are so right. Have you heard the new roman canon prayed? Not just read it, but actually hear it. Have someone read it to you. It’s AMAZING!!!
Everyone, if you haven’t already, tt least try it with some of this:
To you, therefore, most merciful Father,
we make humble prayer and petition
through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord:
that you accept
and bless + these gifts, these offerings,
these holy and unblemished sacrifices,
With hands extended, he continues:
which we offer you firstly
for your holy catholic Church.
…
Be pleased, O God, we pray,
to bless, acknowledge,
and approve this offering in every respect;
make it spiritual and acceptable,
so that it may become for us
the Body and Blood of your most beloved Son,
our Lord Jesus Christ.
…
Therefore, O Lord,
as we celebrate the memorial of the blessed Passion,
the Resurrection from the dead,
and the glorious Ascension into heaven
of Christ, your Son, our Lord,
we, your servants and your holy people,
offer to your glorious majesty
from the gifts that you have given us,
this pure victim,
this holy victim,
this spotless victim,
the holy Bread of eternal life
and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.
L
Little_One0307
Guest
I shiver in anticpation. I can hardly wait until Advent.
My SD/confessor is quite excited about it. We went through the Mass parts for the priest and I was pleased of the translation. We had several long theological and liturgical conversations about it.
I gotta get the new GIRM. Is there anywhere online, where they have posted it?
God bless.
T
TheMc
Guest
Not that I know of.
G
GwenL
Guest
it is not yet posted online, not that I am aware of. It is available for sale at the USCCB website.
On a depressing note, here is a quote from our diocesan liturgical commission webpage, regarding the new translation:
What will NOT change?
The language will remain the same. We are NOT going back to Latin, but will remain using English. The postures will be the same, and the presider will NOT have his back to you.
The language will remain the same. We are NOT going back to Latin, but will remain using English. The postures will be the same, and the presider will NOT have his back to you.
It is truly amazing how much ignorance can be packed in three short sentences. Makes you want to gag, doesn’t it? I gather that our diocese was without a bishop for a few years, and many of these commissions were formed, run by laity with little clerical involvement. And they are still hanging on, trying to run things according to their vision of the groovy 60s and 70s.
T
TheMc
Guest
Wow. Your one sentence put it well:
“It is truly amazing how much ignorance can be packed in three short sentences.”
How sad.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Indeed. You would think by now everyone would have read this one sentence from Vatican II. (Note the period at the end.)
“36. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.”
M
MarkThompson
Guest
Hmm. I’m not aware of a single rubrical change that the average pew-dweller would notice. I guess if you remembered the structure of last year’s Pentecost Vigil you would notice some changes next year, that sort of thing; nothing you’d be likely to observe on a typical Sunday, however.
T
TheMc
Guest
What about musically?
T
TheMc
Guest
I know. This really bugs me. So much for “the spirit of Vaticn II.”
- Status