Tridentine Mass Etiquette?

[zab]

Sorry, but that’s not true even though you might want it to be true.

Do you have some reference to prove otherwise?

 

[YoungTradCath]

Do you have some reference to prove otherwise?

Do you have proof that it is?

 

[napoli426]

Evidence? Just go to the vast majority of the Novus Ordo Masses and you will get all the evidence you need. Frankly, you have to be blind or stupid to think otherwise.

 

[zab]

Do you have proof that it is?

There is no special requirement at our parish to wear head covering etc to attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Some do, but it is not required. The Mass is the Mass and there should be the same etiquette used when attending Mass whereever you attend.

 

[YoungTradCath]

There is no special requirement at our parish to wear head covering etc to attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Some do, but it is not required. The Mass is the Mass and there should be the same etiquette used when attending Mass whereever you attend.

Right, there should be, but that isn’t really the case in how it plays out.

 

[zab]

Right, there should be, but that isn’t really the case in how it plays out.

It all depends on what you are referring to as proper ettiquette- dressing properly or wearing head covering? One is proper etiquette the other is a more common practice that is growing but not required.

 

[YoungTradCath]

It all depends on what you are referring to as proper ettiquette- dressing properly or wearing head covering? One is proper etiquette the other is a more common practice that is growing but not required.

I’m glad you make that distinction, and I recognize it as well. The fact is that you can go into many parishes nowadays and see tons of women in skimpy clothing and men dressed like slobs, which is unacceptable at any mass. However, you will notice that in the most orthodox parishes, whether EF-only, OF-only or bi-ritual, this problem is curiously absent… Or is it so curious?

 

[zab]

I’m glad you make that distinction, and I recognize it as well. The fact is that you can go into many parishes nowadays and see tons of women in skimpy clothing and men dressed like slobs, which is unacceptable at any mass. However, you will notice that in the most orthodox parishes, whether EF-only, OF-only or bi-ritual, this problem is curiously absent… Or is it so curious?

Perhaps it is because some attend the OF on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation because they feel that they need to fulfil and obligation while most who attend daily Mass or at times that are not obligatory at the OF or at the EFare there because they want to be. It has more to do with the respect of those attending and not that it is an OF or an EF.

 

[OCCathFemale]

Regarding the inquiry about head coverings in mass, and the request for documentation thereof, please see following from EWTN website. (I have never worn a head covering at a Latin mass and see that the majority at at least one mass we attend, do not do so).

Cardinal Raymond Burke, Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, responded to an inquiry on this subject. While not a formal judgment of the Signatura, it reflects the opinion of the Church’s highest canonical official after the Pope. Note in his answer that there is neither a canonical or moral obligation for women to use a head-covering. Even in the case of the Extraordinary Form there is merely “an expectation,” whose failure to fulfil does not entail sin.

image of original letter

4 April 2011

Dear ________,

Thank you for your letter postmarked January 5, 2009, regarding the custom of the chapel veil. I offer you my sincere apologies for failing to respond to your letter, in a timely manner. I had placed your letter with some other papers. and have only recently discovered that I never responded to it.

The wearing of a chapel veil for women is not required when women assist at the Holy Mass according to the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. It is, however, the expectation that women who assist at the Mass according to the Extraordinary Form cover their heads, as was the practice at the time that the 1962 Missale Romanum was in force. It is not, however, a sin to participate in the Holy Mass according to the Extraordinary Form without a veil.

I wish you an abundant share in the strong graces of the Lenten Season.

Thank you for the assurance of your prayers for me. As a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church, I have need of your prayers, now more than ever.

Invoking God’s blessing upon you, while confiding your intentions to the intercession of Our Lady of Guadalupe, I remain

Yours devotedly in Christ,

Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke
Archbishop Emeritus of Saint Louis
Prefect, Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura

 

[TrueLight]

The wearing of a chapel veil for women is not required when women assist at the Holy Mass according to the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.** It is, however, the expectation that women who assist at the Mass according to the Extraordinary Form cover their heads, as was the practice at the time that the 1962 Missale Romanum was in force.** It is not, however, a sin to participate in the Holy Mass according to the Extraordinary Form without a veil.

Thank you for this post.

I just saw I was being asked to provide documentation.

All one needs to do is visit a couple of OF masses and a couple of EF masses, and you will see that there are more women veiled, generally speaking at the EF masses.

This is not a judgement one way or the other. It is a fact, zab.

 

[zab]

Thank you for this post.

I just saw I was being asked to provide documentation.

All one needs to do is visit a couple of OF masses and a couple of EF masses, and you will see that there are more women veiled, generally speaking at the EF masses.

This is not a judgement one way or the other. It is a fact, zab.

Excuse me- I’m not understanding why you are addressing this to me.

 

[zab]

Thank you for this post.

I just saw I was being asked to provide documentation.

All one needs to do is visit a couple of OF masses and a couple of EF masses, and you will see that there are more women veiled, generally speaking at the EF masses.

This is not a judgement one way or the other. It is a fact, zab.

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Yes, it is a fact that more women wear head covering to the EF than the OF. It is also a fact that it is not sin to not wear head covering to the EF or the OF.

 

[TrueLight]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Yes, it is a fact that more women wear head covering to the EF than the OF. It is also a fact that it is not sin to not wear head covering to the EF or the OF.

Who used the word sin?
To reiterate, I’m responding to your comment that:

The proper etiquette for attending a Traditional Latin Mass is the same as for attending Mass in the Ordinary Form. Either you wear head covering or you don’t. It is not the form of the Mass that determines whether or not you wear head covering or bring your small children to Mass or how you dress.

The document on the EWTN posted above shows that there is indeed more of an expectation at an EF mass that a woman will be veiled than there is at an OF mass.

That doesn’t mean that all women veil at EF masses or that no woman veils at an OF mass.

There is nothing sinful about either choice.

However, especially at traditional parishes, like FSSP parishes, there is an expectation that women veil and there may even be a note in the bulletin.

 

[zab]

Who used the word sin?
To reiterate, I’m responding to your comment that:

The document on the EWTN posted above shows that there is indeed more of an expectation at an EF mass that a woman will be veiled than there is at an OF mass.

That doesn’t mean that all women veil at EF masses or that no woman veils at an OF mass.

There is nothing sinful about either choice.

However, especially at traditional parishes, like FSSP parishes, there is an expectation that women veil and there may even be a note in the bulletin.

There is an expectation is some places as we have seen evidence reported here on CAF but not in other parishes such as our parish.

P.S. Regarding your question “Who used the word sin?” It was in the quote that you posted.

 

[OCCathFemale]

On head covering:

So I think we can all agree that expectations vary by parish (and probably by region of the country? but I have no evidence of that) but that there is no requirement that must be adhered to in all cases.

I hope we also all can agree that it is not a kind or charitable practice to try to make women feel uncomfortable, if they wear it, or if they don’t wear it.

On children at mass:

I must admit it is very difficult for me sometimes when I see parents completely disregarding children screaming and crying loudly for long periods of time. I believe in the case I saw a few weeks ago, of a 4-5 year old screaming loudly through an entire baptism and entire mass up until the Eucharist, when she was removed by her father, that I was experiencing some awfully non-Christian anger . But then I tried to see this as a test of my character. And thank goodness the child was removed prior to the Eucharist - at least some respect was shown.

 

[Elisabeth51]

I think children should be at Mass, that is how they learn! I know this is an old post, but oh well…I find it said that my protestant friends have what they call children’s church, no wonder the kids grow up and then change the church service. I do not have kids as I am not yet married, but if I did I would bring them and if they started getting fussy, before I took them out I would see if I could “distract” them by showing them the windows and the statues of the saints. I have seen the kids of my Coptic Orthodox friends, as young as 3 and 4 standing with their fathers who are deacons, learning the chants and following their fathers motions and the girls doing the same with their moms. It is how they learn their faith.

 

[OCCathFemale]

On children:

Agreed. It is definitely the responsibility of the parents to take an authoritative and role model role with the children. Some children will misbehave if they can and are not corrected. In the instance I cite, these parents did NOTHING while the child, not even a baby, was very loudly wailing, making it impossible to hear the entire baptism ceremony and I felt sorry for the couple having their baby being baptized, that these parents didn’t even have enough respect to ask their child to be quiet, or as you say, give the child something else to concentrate on. I think this goes to what I see as the pervasive abdication of personal responsibility in much of our generation (baby boomers and gen X’rs so to speak) (and don’t even get me started on some of the younger ones!) Agreed, children should not be a problem if they are properly supervised, raised and admonished when they misbehave. I would NEVER have been able to act that way as a child. My parents always took along a little book for me to read, or something to distract me and if I cried, they had consideration for others. So please don’t get me wrong - I am not saying children should stay at home - but parents should act like parents, not like self-indulgent, rude parishioners (see, that anger coming back LOL).