Tridentine Mass

[MindNight]

Is it necessary for salvation that one attends the latin tridentine mass or does it not matter?

 

[agnes_therese]

You can attend any Catholic Mass.

 

[MindNight]

You can attend any Catholic Mass.

Then why is there is a big dispute over the matter on the internet (particularly youtube and many other various sites)? I just can’t seem to comprehend the big dilemma here… I heard people talking about the “novus ordo mass” and how it is not true catholicism and so forth… am therefore really puzzled about this whole debate.I’m sort of a newbie when it comes to traditional matters, so I simply wanted to be sure what the whole issue is about.

 

[Filii_Dei]

First, a clarification of terminology:

• The Tridentine Mass refers to a Mass celebrated (usually) according to the rites and instructions of the Missal of 1962. It is called ‘Tridentine’ because it was fixed in the Council of Trent (also known as Tridentium) in 1570, although it actually predates the Council by several centuries. It is also called the Traditional Latin Mass, Mass of the Ages, and any permutation of the above names. In current Church usage, it is officially called the Extraordinary Form.
• The Novus Ordo Mass refers to a Mass celebrated according to the Missal of 1970 promulgated by Pope Paul VI. It was written as a reform of the Tridentine Mass. Most notably, it removes many traditional elements while introducing others. It is the form of Mass that is normative for the Latin Church, and is the Mass you see celebrated in nearly every (Roman) Catholic parish. As it is the normative and ‘default’ form of Mass, it is also called the Ordinary Form.

The contention here is that some traditionalists claim that the Novus Ordo is seriously deficient in many respects as compared to its Tridentine Mass predecessor, and therefore represents a serious break from tradition. This is because the Missal of 1970 removes many elements of liturgy of the Missal of 1962. In this sense, some consider it not to be “true Catholicism”. Furthermore, some associate the widespread use (and abuse) of the Novus Ordo with declining faith in the Catholic Church, along with many other apparent rejections of Church tradition, which may be why some seem to resent it.

The Church (ie, the Holy See) does not state that it is necessary to attend the Tridentine Mass in order to be saved. The normative form of Mass is the Ordinary Form (aka Novus Ordo), and even then the Church does not claim that one must attend at least one Ordinary Form mass in order to be saved, just that one should attend mass. In other words, one can be saved whether or not one has attended purely the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form for their whole lives.

However, I and many others on this forum would tell you that it would profit you spiritually to attend the Tridentine Mass at least once. It is replete with tradition and symbolism that most mass-goers these days do not have the fortune to appreciate, and it also draws upon its intimate connection to the history of the Church, a communion which may not be as immediately obvious in the current Ordinary Form.

On what agnes therese mentioned, the furore surrounds the canonical irregularity of the SSPX. The official stance of the Church (ie, the Holy See) is that the SSPX are in a state of canonical irregularity, and have no public office in the Church, so the priests of the SSPX are not permitted to celebrate Masses or any other sacrament publicly except under extenuating circumstances. However, there are some that say that there is nothing wrong with going to the SSPX Masses given that they are still valid. Some also go further to argue that the spiritual merits to be gained from attending an unauthorised Latin Mass far outweigh the moral dangers that come with attending an authorised (but poorly-celebrated) Novus Ordo.

Personally, I play it safe and attend the diocesan Latin mass. It’s authorised and well-celebrated, and our priest is a real joy.

 

[MindNight]

Thank you Filli Dei for that long answer! This cleared up many of my confusions. I hope you did not consider it a waste of time replying to my concerns (since I did benefit form it) . Giving a long answer can be quite hard I imagine. Once again thank you, appreciate your effort and time taken .

And therese, thank you too!

 

[Boulder257]

A very well written post by Filii Dei. Although I attend a novus ordo I can tell you that I always enjoy attending a tridentine mass!

 

[Filii_Dei]

Thank you Filli Dei for that long answer! This cleared up many of my confusions. I hope you did not consider it a waste of time replying to my concerns (since I did benefit form it) . Giving a long answer can be quite hard I imagine. Once again thank you, appreciate your effort and time taken .

And therese, thank you too!

You’re most welcome. If I truly thought it was a waste of time, I doubt I would have replied!

You flatter me. It wasn’t a particularly long or difficult answer to compose. You should see some of the other discussions we get up to on this forum! Nonetheless, I’m happy that it was of use to you. If you need any further clarification, I will be glad to help.

A very well written post by Filii Dei. Although I attend a novus ordo I can tell you that I always enjoy attending a tridentine mass!

As do I! I had never realised how much I was missing out on until I attended my first Tridentine mass.

 

[R_C]

Is it necessary for salvation that one attends the latin tridentine mass or does it not matter?

Ok, big picture review

The Catholic Church is made up of 23 autonomous particular churches, each of which accepts the paramountcy of the Bishop of Rome on matters of doctrine. These churches are also known by the Latin term sui iuris churches.

The Latin church is the largest particular (sui iuris) church within the Catholic Church. The remaining 22 are Eastern Catholic sui iuris churches. These Eastern Churches, along with the larger Latin Church share “equal dignity, so that none of them is superior to the others as regards rite, and they enjoy the same rights and are under the same obligations, also in respect of preaching the Gospel to the whole world under the guidance of the Roman Pontiff”.

The Roman Rite is the liturgical rite used in the Diocese of Rome in the Catholic Church. It is by far the most widespread of the Latin liturgical rites and it has two forms:

• ordinary (the liturgy approved by Pope Paul VI in 1969, subsequent to the liturgical reform which occurred in the years after Second Vatican Council)
• extraordinary (the typical edition of the Roman Missal promulgated by Bl. John XXIII in 1962, which “must be given due honour for its venerable and ancient usage” - cif Summorum Pontificum). Celebrated throughout the world (US directory) by diocesan priests as well as by specific religious communities or priestly societies (ex. Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, Institute of Christ the King).

Besides the Roman Rite (whose Forma Extraordinaria is oftentimes referred to as the Tridentine Mass), I am aware of at least 7 other Rites in the Latin Church, and at least 6 Eastern Rites.

As far as I know, each of these Rites is truly Catholic and we may attend any one and receive the Holy Eucharist for our salvation, with no Rite being superior to the others.

But for many, the spirituality of the Forma Extraordinaria allows them to have a better disposition and receive more graces. Surely grace of the Holy Eucharist is given ex opere operato, and yet it is an undeniable tenet of faith that there are subjective factors which can at least partially determine the amount of grace *obtained * - or we can say that “what is received is received according to the disposition of the receiver” - which in proper terminology is called ex opere operantis. For those who may be puzzled by this statement, I remind you it is found summarized in the Catechism:

1128 From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.