Tridentine trouble

[stceolfrithtx]

I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

Maybe its not for you. The beauty of our Church is that it is truly universal. Go to a OF parish and serve there. Don’t believe people that you are less of a Catholic if you go to an OF Mass. Serve faithfully and be a good example to all.

 

[Timothy17]

I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

Saint = Holy one, as I think you know, which is why it’s just a “feeling”, I imagine, that you are the furthest thing from a Saint because you don’t see the beauty others see in the Tidentine Mass. We “see” with more than eyes and ears : some more with one or the other, but also we see with the mind, and also the soul, I think.

I would strongly suggest (because it was a revelation, so to speak, for me), if you haven’t already read it, clicking the link in my signature that reads “The Mass”. This beautiful little instruction, written by the wonderful Bishop Fulton Sheen about our Lord’s own Mass, or the very first Mass (in a manner of speaking), will certainly help you see what is, in a way, “veiled” in each and every Mass, whether New rite or Old rite.

It’s food for the soul, at least it was for mine, and it’s “hard to read” insomuch as it waters nothing down, and spares no truth, and yet at the same time it’s almost impossible to stop reading.

Pax,
And be strong in prayer for those good things you seek,
Tim

 

[Sherry_G]

Thank you, Timothy17 for this link to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen’s explanation about the Mass and all it’s beautiful parts. I have begun to read…

 

[rben20]

I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

The Mass is not about our “feelings,” it should be about God and our souls. Voris just shared this in his last vortex from realcatholictv.com Think about it, pray about it, and which ever Mass makes that clearer, whether EF or OF then attend and serve there.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

Are you at the point where you can follow along with the prayers in your missal near-exactly? If not, then I understand your frustration and I would encourage you to keep going until you can follow along and pray the prayers with the priest almost flawlessly and see if you feel the same way.

I know what its like to try and be attentive when your not even on the right page and your almost having a panic attack during Mass, but once you can follow along and pray the prayers as the priest prays them I think you will feel much more at ease, at least; and at most you may come to see the beauty that I and others see in the deep prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Although, it could just not be the worship style for you and you may never feel the same way about the Traditional Latin Mass as I and others do, which is perfectly alright and I would encourage you to go to the Form of Mass you are most comfortable, but at least give the TLM a couple tries until you can follow along.

 

[Shin]

It takes time to learn to appreciate the mass, and put into it what you need to, both by following the missal and prayers and entering in your own personal and private prayers and devotions along with it. New habits take weeks to form and adjust to assuming they are daily…

I gained a deeper appreciation for the TLM watching the FSSP mass instructional DVD for priests, for example. And reading other books about the mass.

Old religious devotional texts about the mass especially apply to the TLM and so are much more vivid.

Three isn’t enough… it takes time.

If you’re used to having your attention (and this can be rather superficially) fixed to following along with the externals of the new liturgy… the extra freedom in the TLM gives you the ability to go more deeply into contemplating the sacrifice of Calvary… without being interrupted… once you have the feel for the entire flow of what is actually going on… and its meaning… which takes time, and reading…



Pray to make progress. Everything we do to do well we have to pray about, including learning the mass.

 

[Gregorianman]

I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

There is no gentle way to say this (at least in my style), so I am going to be rather blunt. In the very first line, you you paint us (me) as gushing over the EF. Speaking for myself, I am not a teenage girl swooning at a Beatles concert. The most sacred times in my life are when I am participating at an EF Mass, and I resent the term you have used. Next, you have painted yourself as a victim; “I must be the furthest thing from a saint if I can’t see the beauty…” “I don’t know what to do.” Oh woe is me!!! Those evil Tridentiners are making me feel so insecure!!! Then, in another mis-direct, you try to lull the reader into believing that you are sincere, friendly, non-confrontational.
“I’m not against Latin” “I love Gregorian Chant”. I fully expected your next line to be; “Some of my best friends are Tridentiners”. Then, in classic Alinsky style, you jump from victim back to aggressor with the line; “I don’t feel elevated to heaven while the priest mumbles”. There is a real knee-slapper. Listen, I am sick and tired of people trashing the Traditional Latin Mass that I love, whether it be on a blog, or to my face on the street. If some folks find my post offensive, well, I find the post that I am responding to offensive. If you honestly have difficulty with the EF, then pray about it, work on it, follow your path. But don’t patronize, and don’t call me a “gusher”.

 

[Timothy17]

Thank you, Timothy17 for this link to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen’s explanation about the Mass and all it’s beautiful parts. I have begun to read…

Please, don’t thank me, but rather that holy Bishop and the Spirit of Truth moving in him for our edification and enlightenment. This work opened my eyes to the value of ritual, its meaning and importance, based upon those holy mysteries which are re-presented in them to us.

Pax,
and God bless you,
Tim

 

[MarkThompson]

There is no gentle way to say this (at least in my style), so I am going to be rather blunt. In the very first line, you you paint us (me) as gushing over the EF. Speaking for myself, I am not a teenage girl swooning at a Beatles concert. The most sacred times in my life are when I am participating at an EF Mass, and I resent the term you have used. Next, you have painted yourself as a victim; “I must be the furthest thing from a saint if I can’t see the beauty…” “I don’t know what to do.” Oh woe is me!!! Those evil Tridentiners are making me feel so insecure!!! Then, in another mis-direct, you try to lull the reader into believing that you are sincere, friendly, non-confrontational.
“I’m not against Latin” “I love Gregorian Chant”. I fully expected your next line to be; “Some of my best friends are Tridentiners”. Then, in classic Alinsky style, you jump from victim back to aggressor with the line; “I don’t feel elevated to heaven while the priest mumbles”. There is a real knee-slapper. Listen, I am sick and tired of people trashing the Traditional Latin Mass that I love, whether it be on a blog, or to my face on the street. If some folks find my post offensive, well, I find the post that I am responding to offensive. If you honestly have difficulty with the EF, then pray about it, work on it, follow your path. But don’t patronize, and don’t call me a “gusher”.

What an uncalled for, classless rant. This is pathetic and the furthest thing from Christian that I have seen on this board in quite a while. With an attitude like yours, it’s really no wonder that some people who try to learn the TLM wind up feeling unwelcome and inadequate. Fortunately very few people behave this badly.

To the OP: sorry for this guy’s tantrum. The previous posts are right – you may want to give it more time, and in any event different people’s emotional and spiritual reactions to things may vary. Personally, I think some of the “gushing” reactions you may have read are from people for whom the TLM is their only refuge from really terribly-celebrated OF Masses (made-up prayers, heretical sermons, felt banners, hippie guitarists, all the stereotypically bad stuff). If you’re coming from a place where you already have a very good regular Mass, then it stands to reason why you wouldn’t experience the sudden wonderment and sense of immediate relief that others describe.

 

[GIR]

I think “gushing” is a great word. The first mass I went to after realizing how poorly the new liturgy is treated was a Maronite Qurbono, and “gush” is exactly what I did. I couldn’t shut up about the beautiful church, the nice people, the attitude of reverence, the strange mix of foreign and familiar, it was all so beautiful.

 

[Rites]

I would suggest that you keep attending EF Masses for a while. I remember when I went to my first TLM. I sat in the pews with no clue what was going on and could hardly keep my focus for even a few seconds. I left the church wondering what was so special about the EF, and I actually found myself disliking it.

That changed over time. The full impact of the Mass didn’t hit me until several months later, but when it did, I was never the same again. I haven’t been to a NO for years. So don’t worry if you’re not blown out of your seat the first few times you attend: very, very few people are. It takes time to appreciate the beauty of the EF. Just give it a while and I’m sure you’ll see what you’ve been missing.

 

[ProVobis]

There is no gentle way to say this (at least in my style), so I am going to be rather blunt. In the very first line, you you paint us (me) as gushing over the EF. Speaking for myself, I am not a teenage girl swooning at a Beatles concert. The most sacred times in my life are when I am participating at an EF Mass, and I resent the term you have used. Next, you have painted yourself as a victim; “I must be the furthest thing from a saint if I can’t see the beauty…” “I don’t know what to do.” Oh woe is me!!! Those evil Tridentiners are making me feel so insecure!!! Then, in another mis-direct, you try to lull the reader into believing that you are sincere, friendly, non-confrontational.
“I’m not against Latin” “I love Gregorian Chant”. I fully expected your next line to be; “Some of my best friends are Tridentiners”. Then, in classic Alinsky style, you jump from victim back to aggressor with the line; “I don’t feel elevated to heaven while the priest mumbles”. There is a real knee-slapper. Listen, I am sick and tired of people trashing the Traditional Latin Mass that I love, whether it be on a blog, or to my face on the street. If some folks find my post offensive, well, I find the post that I am responding to offensive. If you honestly have difficulty with the EF, then pray about it, work on it, follow your path. But don’t patronize, and don’t call me a “gusher”.

You go, girl.

 

[Lormar]

There is no gentle way to say this (at least in my style), so I am going to be rather blunt. In the very first line, you you paint us (me) as gushing over the EF. Speaking for myself, I am not a teenage girl swooning at a Beatles concert. The most sacred times in my life are when I am participating at an EF Mass, and I resent the term you have used. Next, you have painted yourself as a victim; “I must be the furthest thing from a saint if I can’t see the beauty…” “I don’t know what to do.” Oh woe is me!!! Those evil Tridentiners are making me feel so insecure!!! Then, in another mis-direct, you try to lull the reader into believing that you are sincere, friendly, non-confrontational.
“I’m not against Latin” “I love Gregorian Chant”. I fully expected your next line to be; “Some of my best friends are Tridentiners”. Then, in classic Alinsky style, you jump from victim back to aggressor with the line; “I don’t feel elevated to heaven while the priest mumbles”. There is a real knee-slapper. Listen, I am sick and tired of people trashing the Traditional Latin Mass that I love, whether it be on a blog, or to my face on the street. If some folks find my post offensive, well, I find the post that I am responding to offensive. If you honestly have difficulty with the EF, then pray about it, work on it, follow your path. But don’t patronize, and don’t call me a “gusher”.

You left one out:

I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

---

Stceol:

My advice to you is simple. Don’t go. You have an option. Go back to the OF. Maybe in time you will come to appreciate the EF.

 

[DebChris]

I wasn’t sure I wanted to post on this thread. There are many who see the beauty of the Tridentine Mass without looking at how the Mass has changed over the ages.
The bishops who gathered for Vatican II recognized that many people were not fully engaged in the Mass. Rather they had become spectators. The magisterium desired fuller participation by the laity. This was the reasoning behind the development of the OF now used. The essentials of the Mass remain while excess repetition was removed.
I don’t speak Latin. I enjoy Mass celebrated in my own language.

 

[Shin]

If I may make a comparison, it’s the difference between being given the opportunity to go deeper which if you fail to take advantage of, you won’t do so, or being made to follow along a routine every time that distracts you from doing so but keeps you occupied.

 

[Milesius]

I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

Embrace the challenge, this experience is going to force you to grow, sometimes growing is uncomfortable, persevere.

It sounds to me very much like you are trying to hard and so you are forgetting to pray.

Mass isn’t about feelings, if you went there in search of some feeling then you are almost guaranteed to not get that feeling, the feeling comes from inside you or perhaps from God when you are fully engaged in praying the mass.

Perhaps part of your problem is that you have been using Gregorian Chant for profane use and so now it does not have the spiritual association for you that it should have.

Learn the priests movements in correspondence to which part of the mass he is at and then you will always have a good idea of where you are at.

Start praying the rosary at home, fifteen decades if you can, that will teach you how to pray for a long spell of time like you are meant to do at the Mass.

 

[MarkThompson]

You left one out:

---

Stceol:

My advice to you is simple. Don’t go. You have an option. Go back to the OF. Maybe in time you will come to appreciate the EF.

“Don’t come. We don’t like your kind.” Make sure you cross-post that to the “why is the TLM dying out” thread, Lormar. It’ll be a helpful data point.

 

[MikeDunphy]

I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

That can be a useful reaction. Yes, you really must be very far from being a saint. :nope: Me, too! :nope: But with God’s help, even such as you and I can be lifted up.

So, during Mass, if you have that reaction, try to master your frustration, acknowlege your unworthiness and ask for God’s help. If you’ll let it, this can be a blessing, to be reminded of your need for Christ’s help, at a time when He will be present, offering His help to preserve you from spiritual death.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!

We all have trouble at the beginning. Fortunately, the Mass becomes easier to follow with time, as you begin to recognize words and gestures and even the loudness with which certain words are said. But in the meantime, if you find it impossible to follow along in the missal, you could do worse than imitating the example of those old ladies you mentioned. Not necessarily by praying the rosary, especially since that upsets some people nowadays, but you could mentally contemplate our Lord’s passion, as Fr. Hardon suggests here. You’re not hurried along as much in the old Mass; it is an opportunity to consider more carefully Christ’s sacrifice and what your response should be.

 

[stceolfrithtx]

Are you at the point where you can follow along with the prayers in your missal near-exactly? If not, then I understand your frustration and I would encourage you to keep going until you can follow along and pray the prayers with the priest almost flawlessly and see if you feel the same way.

I’m not sure what you mean. I am often on the wrong page. When it comes to a prayer for the laypeople to say, as soon as I can find it I’m able to read it with everyone else, if that’s what you mean.

I know what its like to try and be attentive when your not even on the right page and your almost having a panic attack during Mass, but once you can follow along and pray the prayers as the priest prays them I think you will feel much more at ease, at least; and at most you may come to see the beauty that I and others see in the deep prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass.

I hope so. I’ve never even attended with someone who regularly, or ever, goes. This might be another hurdle, but it’s traditionally been my way. I visited Byzantine Divine Liturgy and the Anglican Use of the Roman rite alone when I first assisted at those masses, too. Do you recommend the Latin Novus Ordo as a way to ease into the Tridentine?

Although, it could just not be the worship style for you and you may never feel the same way about the Traditional Latin Mass as I and others do, which is perfectly alright and I would encourage you to go to the Form of Mass you are most comfortable, but at least give the TLM a couple tries until you can follow along.

The idea of just giving up, does feel wrong. Many saints of old, (the western ones, at least) came to love Christ through this rite. I do want to achieve that, but like you said, I feel like I’m having a panic attack just trying to guess what page I’m on.