Tridentine trouble

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DebChris said:
50 The treasures of the bible are to be opened up more lavishly so that a richer fare may be provided for the faithful at the table of God’s word…
This presents one of the main reasons I prefer the NO over the old. I do not know anybody who dislikes the bells that “signal when something important is about to happen.” (The Tradition of Catholic Prayer) I look forward to their ringing at Easter.

I did use the words, “excess repetition” in my first post. Since I am not a part of the magisterium, it was not my role to differentiate between the essential and non-essential elements of the Mass, or those parts considered repetitious.
It was the Council’s desire that the laity more fully participate in the Liturgy. I do know that with the priest facing the congregation, I am more readily drawn into the Sacrifice of the Mass. I am not a merely a spectator.

While I knew that the Mass had changed orientation over the centuries, it is only when reading the book by the monks of Saint Meinrad that I learned it was the prevalence of private Masses that led to the priest celebrating the Mass with his back to the congregation.
Although Abbey Press has gone out of business, if you are able to find a copy, I highly recommend The Tradition of Catholic Prayer to anybody interested in how Christian prayer has changed and developed over time. It is an excellent overview that begins with Old Testament prayer, addresses the necessity of boldness during Apostolic times, monastic development, pilgrimages, the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, and ends with modern times when we can see beautiful video images that aid prayer.

Discussions of differences between the Mass as celebrated before and after Vatican II often become heated, the reason for my reluctance to even post on this thread. I did want the OP to know that he is not alone in not feeling what those enamored with the Tridentine Mass describe. I have always loved the Mass. During the short period that I attended parochial school I looked forward to daily Mass. Yes, it was the TLM. I find even more richness in the ordinary form of the Mass.
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But isn’t this the great thing during this transition. Our families will be able to attend both both forms of the Mass. My High-school and College Kids can’t wait to attend the TLM.😃 We have attended a couple of Masses and Weddings that were TLM and they can not believe the difference. They grew up with Life Teen Masses in High-school and heard a lot very good Bands at those Masses, from Mariachi Bands, to the Guitars, Drums and Bongo Drums. Not all the NO Masses were like this mainly the Life Teen Masses and they were great entertainment while completing their Sunday Mass obligations. They also enjoyed the raising hands and holding hands and all the hugging during the Mass as well.

But when they saw and experienced the TLM Masses they were like, blown away by the Gregorian Chants, Reverence and Piety and Sacredness of the 1300yr. Mass. My oldest said the TLM compared to NO Mass, is like seeing the light in a 60W light bulb at the NO Mass compared to looking into the Sun at the TLM Mass.

Don’t get me wrong they enjoyed and were entertained at the NO Masses but now that they are in college and Graduate Schools they are thinking about marriage and future spouses more seriously. Funny how that works.😉

If you and your family find the guitar Masses and handholding, etc.beneficial to your eternal salvation then by all means keep going and enjoy.👍
 
Nowhere_Man said:
Is the Missal you use for the Tridentine Mass one of those little red paper ones usually provided by TLM parishes? If not I would HIGHLY recommend using one of those instead of a full missal because full missals can be hard to navigate between the Propers and the Ordinary, where as the red ones have just the Ordinary and you can wait until the Proper finishes and pick-up from there, or print off the Propers and glance at them while they are being read and then go back to the red missal.
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Propers? I had no idea something was missing from the little red books! That was one of the frustrating things, I knew something wasn’t quite matching up.
 
As a convert, I can count myself blessed that I have experienced worship in so many different forms!

I can well recall the first time I ever got to see the mass in the EF; the only church offering it for miles around was offering it at 6:30AM.
It was to me like sprititual dynamite! Blown away I was!

However, I have since come to learn that so much of what one receives from the mass is part what we are willing to get from it and part who is celebrating that mass.

A good priest can take the 9:30 OF and leave you feeling like you have been kissed by God. A not so hot priest can ramble and race thru the Latin of the EF and leave you wondering, “What the heck was all that?”

I would say to you to give the EF some more time to grow on you. Mix it up a little; go OF one week, EF another and see which one leaves you feeling like you have been “fed” as opposed to “oh, my aching knees!”
 
stceolfrithtx said:
Propers? I had no idea something was missing from the little red books! That was one of the frustrating things, I knew something wasn’t quite matching up.
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Yes, those little red books are misleading in that sense. They should tell you those propers are just a sample and (probably) not for that Sunday. Some parishes print out the propers for that Mass but I wouldn’t expect it; best to bring your handmissal if you have one.

You shouldn’t however judge the Mass by the inadequacies of that little red book. Or grey book if you want to follow in Spanish.
 
stceolfrithtx said:
Propers? I had no idea something was missing from the little red books! That was one of the frustrating things, I knew something wasn’t quite matching up.
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Oh yes those red books are just the skeleton of the Mass if you like, the are missalettes not missals and only contain the parts that don’t change. Well no wonder you got lost mystery solved.

The propers are often provided on a separate sheet of A4 paper though if I was you I would consider getting a proper missal as they are a great aid to getting to know the Mass.

You can get them from the FSSP here: store.fraternitypublications.com/hand-missals.html
 
stceolfrithtx said:
Propers? I had no idea something was missing from the little red books! That was one of the frustrating things, I knew something wasn’t quite matching up.
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Well there ya go! That might be why you’re having so much trouble haha. I made the same mistake when I started going, don’t worry; although the ones at my EF parish say “propers” in large letters next to the propers, so I felt like even more of a goof for not noticing.

This website has the Propers for all the Sunday Masses of the year for the EF if you want to print them.
 
MarkThompson said:
“Don’t come. We don’t like your kind.” Make sure you cross-post that to the “why is the TLM dying out” thread, Lormar. It’ll be a helpful data point.
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Is that what I said?

Don’t put words in my mouth.
 
stceolfrithtx said:
I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.
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You should try going to an Eastern Catholic Liturgy.
 
Tradycja said:
You should try going to an Eastern Catholic Liturgy.
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Actually, I have! I did mention it a couple of times in this thread. I’ve experienced the Ruthenian Byzantine Divine Liturgy in a couple of parishes in Texas. Their liturgy is GORGEOUS and the people are great. The liturgy is very different than the NO, but I didn’t have difficulty following along. It was the same with the Anglican Use (all of these in English, btw). It was different, but I could be ready with the responses, the simple few things I was supposed to do. And both are very reverent, spiritually uplifting, conducive to worship for the me and visitors I bring with me.
 
stceolfrithtx said:
I often hear people gush about the beauty of the Tridentine rite, but between three experiences with this Mass, I haven’t experienced what people say it’s supposed to be like. I feel like I must be the FURTHEST THING from a Saint if I don’t see the beauty and can’t actively participate in this Mass by keeping my attention, etc.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve assisted at three Tridentine masses (one by the FSSP) and I can’t follow along, I always feel almost frustrated enough to leave. At least one of these was a High Mass. It felt like attending a concert of some sort. I’ve always considered myself traditional and it bothers me that I don’t have the patience for this, at least yet.

VERY IMPORTANT I’m not against Latin. In fact I can follow along with audible Latin words and I have good pronunciation. I LOVE Gregorian chant. I listen to it when I study. I just can’t SEE the beauty that EF lovers gush about in the Tridentine mass. I don’t feel elevated to heaven and while the priest mumbles, my mind wanders. What do I do? I understand now why so many old ladies used to say a Rosary during Mass!
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First, I never attended a Mass until 12 years ago when I was gonna marry and become Catholic. For me the Mass (not the Tridentine) was very confusing. For years I simply did the motions and learn the words being said. It took me 5 years to be comfortable with it. And no I am not “slow”. But I never had an experience like a Mass and this is probably due to never really being exposed to church.

The church I attend now does the Tridentine on Saturday and we have attended it about 6 times. We have booklets to follow along in it. It gets easier each time. I know after awhile it will be as comfortable as the one I learned and still do.

But with anything new it takes time to learn it an become comfortable with it. For me it took extra time because I struggled with being Catholic as well. But given time and understanding the Tridentine will be so beautiful. I already see where the Tridentine is more focused on Jesus and His sacrifice and less on the Priest or the other parishoners. That, to me, is more what God wants.
 
I just joined Catholic Answers Forums, and hope someone can help with explaining why there seems to be a lot of ongoing resistance among bishops and priests about the Latin Mass. In our city, there is one parish that wants to do a daily mass, but we keep hearing that the diocese keeps putting up roadblocks. Does anyone else have this same experience, or can anyone help me understand why it’s even an issue?
 
assunta123 said:
I just joined Catholic Answers Forums, and hope someone can help with explaining why there seems to be a lot of ongoing resistance among bishops and priests about the Latin Mass. In our city, there is one parish that wants to do a daily mass, but we keep hearing that the diocese keeps putting up roadblocks. Does anyone else have this same experience, or can anyone help me understand why it’s even an issue?
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My area has that problem, and I will never understand why some Priests and Bishops are so hostile against it either. Technically, according to Summorum Pontificum, a Bishop can’t stop a Priest from saying the TLM, but some sure do try.
 
Nowhere_Man said:
My area has that problem, and I will never understand why some Priests and Bishops are so hostile against it either. Technically, according to Summorum Pontificum, a Bishop can’t stop a Priest from saying the TLM, but some sure do try.
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In the end, the priest is to obedient to his Bishop, albeit you would hope the Bishop is obedient to Rome.
 
Just an observation, but I can see when the Extraordinary Form is criticized some people are quick to say you just haven’t let it grow on you or you do not understand. Maybe this is the same reason people do not like the OF (NOT the NO!!!). Just a thought.
 
Magnus467 said:
Just an observation, but I can see when the Extraordinary Form is criticized some people are quick to say you just haven’t let it grow on you or you do not understand. Maybe this is the same reason people do not like the OF (NOT the NO!!!). Just a thought.
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What is the difference between the OF and the NO?
 
The Novus Ordo title is name applied to any new missale (I believe and watch my spelling). It is often used on these forums in a negative and disdainful manner:mad::mad:. The proper term is the Ordinary Form.
 
PA650 said:
In the end, the priest is to obedient to his Bishop, albeit you would hope the Bishop is obedient to Rome.
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Most definitely. I pray for my Diocese every day; especially since we are soon to be appointed a new Archbishop.
 
assunta123 said:
I just joined Catholic Answers Forums, and hope someone can help with explaining why there seems to be a lot of ongoing resistance among bishops and priests about the Latin Mass. In our city, there is one parish that wants to do a daily mass, but we keep hearing that the diocese keeps putting up roadblocks. Does anyone else have this same experience, or can anyone help me understand why it’s even an issue?
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This would be a new topic that would go well in its own thread. Just something to learn as you get more experienced in the forum.
 
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