Trinity: 1 Corinthians 11:3

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“But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ” - 1 Corinthians 11:3

If the Son (Jesus) and the Father (Yahweh) have same authority in heaven how could Saint Paul say (after Jesus has been resurrected in heaven) that the Head of Christ is God? Just as the head ( or superior authority) of man is Christ?

Thank you,

Andrew
 
John 10:30 - Jesus says, “I and the Father are one.” They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus’ statement in John 14:28, “the Father is greater than I,” cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus’ statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh. scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html

Devotion to Mary is almost instinctive for a Christian. The first generation of believers who reflected on the Christian revelation inevitably saw the link between Mother and Son, the New Eve and the New Adam. This is the origin of the “To Jesus through Mary” path. To reject this great scriptural insight is really a kind of regress, a fall from grace.
The main obstacle to Marian devotion for some Fundamentalists is the fear that somehow their conscious prayer life will be “cluttered up” or confused. How can we integrate devotion to Mary with prayers to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit? This apparent difficulty was not a problem to the greatest pray-ers of Christendom. For the great “prayer warriors” we call the saints, Marian devotion was a pathway to a rich and robust prayer life in which God was all-encompassing.
In praying to Mary we must come back again to the point that there is no “competition” between devotion to Jesus and to Mary. Once we realize that she is our Mother, a Mother who leads us to God, to the Holy Trinity, we realize that devotion is a matter of understanding relationships. When we realize that God is infinite love, we see this love expressed as a human Mother in Mary. All human beings long for the love of a mother and God Who has implanted this yearning in us gives us a Mother in Mary. We have a relationship with her on one level as mother and on another level we have a relationship with the Trinity, with God. She is the Mother who draws us closer to the God to Whom she is so intimately united. Does a focus on Mary and the saints take us away from attention to God? The answer to this question is a question: Does attention to our closest friends and family in this world take us away from God? In both instances we see the love of God expressed through these other human persons. They enable us to appreciate His glory in newer and fuller ways. At the same time we should and can pray to Him without restraint.

If there is any confusion in prayer life and devotion we find it with the Fundamentalists. In real life they find it hard to focus on more than One of the Three Persons of the Trinity. That is why some focus on the Father, others on the Son and a third group just on the Spirit. Marian devotion, on the other hand, will clarify the distinctions within the Trinity while leading us to a real relationship with each of the Three Persons.
The infinite love of God is central to our Christian experience. In embracing Mary as Mother we enter more fully into this great Love. She loves us like she loves Jesus and we should love her like Jesus loves her.
mariology.com/sections/devotion.html

kepha1
 
Thank you for that reply…however your answer has nothing to do with my question. I would like an explanation of 1 Cor 11:3 please.

Is there anybody out there who can do that?

Thank you…Andrew
 
adimech said:
“But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ” - 1 Corinthians 11:3

If the Son (Jesus) and the Father (Yahweh) have same authority in heaven how could Saint Paul say (after Jesus has been resurrected in heaven) that the Head of Christ is God? Just as the head ( or superior authority) of man is Christ?

Thank you,

Andrew
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The Son proceeds from the Father. He is of the Father, just like the woman is of the man as Paul says. Christ always did the will of the Father.

Its not like, the Father has one opinion and the Son has another. The Son preaches from the Father. They preach the same message.
 
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jimmy:
The Son proceeds from the Father. He is of the Father, just like the woman is of the man as Paul says. Christ always did the will of the Father.

Its not like, the Father has one opinion and the Son has another. The Son preaches from the Father. They preach the same message.
Click to expand...
 
adimech said:
“But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ” - 1 Corinthians 11:3

If the Son (Jesus) and the Father (Yahweh) have same authority in heaven how could Saint Paul say (after Jesus has been resurrected in heaven) that the Head of Christ is God? Just as the head ( or superior authority) of man is Christ?

Thank you,

Andrew
Click to expand...

Hi Adimech,
Firstly I am sorry Jimmy, but I wanted to answer from Adimech, post.
This is a great question. And to me somewhat confusing.
I view the Trinity as Will, Word and Spirit, where the Word and the Spirit comply exactly to the Will.
No where do I see any example of the Word or the Spirit being the head of the will. Just look at ourselves, made in God’s image. We too, possess, will word and spirit. How do you see the order in yourself.
IN Acts 1:7 Jesus states it is not for us to know times and seasons as the Father has these under His own authority. Not even Jesus has authority over times and seasons, but all else.
Further more, when death and hades and all things have been put under Jesus’s feet, by the Father, He Jesus will hand all back to His Father.
I agree completely that God Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one, that is of one mind, one heart, of the same will as He. But God is God, not Jesus, in whom God dwells, and the Holy Spirit is Holy because He is God’s Spirit and He is Almighty because He is God’s Holy Spirit.
Some posters try to put fear into one’s heart when discussing this topic, but the truth is never afraid of fear.
Walk in love
edwinG
 
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edwinG:
Hi Adimech,
Firstly I am sorry Jimmy, but I wanted to answer from Adimech, post.
This is a great question. And to me somewhat confusing.
I view the Trinity as Will, Word and Spirit, where the Word and the Spirit comply exactly to the Will.
No where do I see any example of the Word or the Spirit being the head of the will. Just look at ourselves, made in God’s image. We too, possess, will word and spirit. How do you see the order in yourself.
IN Acts 1:7 Jesus states it is not for us to know times and seasons as the Father has these under His own authority. Not even Jesus has authority over times and seasons, but all else.
Further more, when death and hades and all things have been put under Jesus’s feet, by the Father, He Jesus will hand all back to His Father.
I agree completely that God Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one, that is of one mind, one heart, of the same will as He. But God is God, not Jesus, in whom God dwells, and the Holy Spirit is Holy because He is God’s Spirit and He is Almighty because He is God’s Holy Spirit.
Some posters try to put fear into one’s heart when discussing this topic, but the truth is never afraid of fear.
Walk in love
edwinG
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I don’t understand what you are saying. Are you saying that they are not all one? That is what it seems like according to the last few lines of your post. According to 1John The Father, The Word, and The Spirit are all one.

The reason why the Father is the head of the Son is because the Son proceeds from the Father. The same goes for the Spirit. They are both of the Father. Nothing the Son has is not from the Father. The Son also always yeilded to the will of the Father. This is why the Father is the head of the Son.

Jesus specifically addressed himself as God when he said “I am he who AM”. That is a very bold statement, especially since God called himself “I am who AM”. Either Jesus is a blasphemer or he is “who AM”. It can’t work any other way when you are using the name of God.
 
OK, I think we all agree here that the Father and Son are ONE (John 10:30). They have one mind on all issues. Jesus also made publicly known that he is in UNION with his Father and his Father in UNION with him.

But the big question on my mind is….Do Jesus and his Father (Yahweh) have the same AUTHORITY in heaven? Are they equal in POWER? Or does the father have greater power?

Isn’t it true that Jesus also asked his disciples to be in UNION with him just as he is in union with his father in John 10:38? Does this mean though that his disciples have the same authority as Jesus the King or of his Father who gave him that kingship and authority? Matthew 28:18; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28

Your answers are appreciation.
 
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adimech:
OK, I think we all agree here that the Father and Son are ONE (John 10:30). They have one mind on all issues. Jesus also made publicly known that he is in UNION with his Father and his Father in UNION with him.

But the big question on my mind is….Do Jesus and his Father (Yahweh) have the same AUTHORITY in heaven? Are they equal in POWER? Or does the father have greater power?

Isn’t it true that Jesus also asked his disciples to be in UNION with him just as he is in union with his father in John 10:38? Does this mean though that his disciples have the same authority as Jesus the King or of his Father who gave him that kingship and authority? Matthew 28:18; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28

Your answers are appreciation.
Click to expand...
I would say that authority is not really a matter among the Trinity. They all freely submit to eachother and love eachother completely.

I would say that from our perspective there is one authority, The Trinity. Among the Trinity there is no authority.

The Father is the head of the Son and The Spirit because he is the source of the Son and The Spirit. They both proceed from him.

The Son, when on earth, always submitted to the Father. I can’t say how it is for sure in heaven though.

They are both all powerful and equally powerful. God gave everything has to the Son. So I would say there power is equal.
 
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jimmy:
The Father is the head of the Son and The Spirit because he is the source of the Son and The Spirit. They both proceed from him.
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Just a minor point of clarification, The Spirit proceeds but the Son is begotten.
 
The Father and the Son relationship is just like of a Man and Woman

The Son is begotten of the Father,
Just like a Woman is from Man’s Own Flesh, It came straight out of the Man but still they are one (Gen 2:24)

The Head of the Son is the Father
Just as the Head of a woman is a Man

but a Woman is co-equal to Man
just a the Son is co-equal to the Father

This is how man and woman is made out of God’s Image and Likeness (Gen 1:26)

If you will include the Holy Spirit in this discussion and the product of love between Man and Woman,you will understand Trinity.
 
adimech said:
“But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ” - 1 Corinthians 11:3

If the Son (Jesus) and the Father (Yahweh) have same authority in heaven how could Saint Paul say (after Jesus has been resurrected in heaven) that the Head of Christ is God? Just as the head ( or superior authority) of man is Christ?

Thank you,

Andrew
Click to expand...

The previous post gets it. The answer is usually within or around the passage. In this case within and without. Will man be superior to woman in heaven? Or, is this just the role that we take in order to complete our mission on earth? 1 Cor 11:3-16 is a teaching on the roles that men and women have in worship. Paul opens with verse “3” to show that God is a God of order. In heaven men and women are equal as Jesus is equal to the Father.

Did Paul use the term the Father or God the Father? He just uses God which spiritually pertains to the Godhead or Trinity. In the divine order the Son is begotten of the Father and Jesus accepted this role in the divine order in order to save us.
 
jimmy said:
The Father is still the source, that is the point.
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Yes, the source, not the temporal cause, but the eternal cause.

The cause does not preceed the effect in Eternity, all that is, is because it is. And you see this in the word be-cause too.

The logic of the Trinity escapes the logic of causality. Causality starts from the Trinity, but there is no Causality in the dynamism of the Trinity. The Father is the source of his perfect knowledge of Himself (Son is begotten), but the Father eternally knows Himself perfectly. The Son also causes the Father to be Father, but it is not the Knowledge of the Son, but of the Father which eternally begets the Son. And for God to be Love and submission and contemplation of Himself (Holy Spirit) the Father has the Son to love (proceeding Love from the Father “because” of the Son, therefore proceeding “consequently” also from the Son), and the Son is Son because the Father is Father because of the Son is Son…see the eternal dynamism in love? So the Father as source, but eternally a plurality because of His very nature and attributes.
 
adimech said:
Thank you for that reply…however your answer has nothing to do with my question. I would like an explanation of 1 Cor 11:3 please.

Is there anybody out there who can do that?

Thank you…Andrew
Click to expand...
The Scripture at 1 Corinthians 11:3 is explaining how people often have to submit themselves to authority for the sake of fulfilling God’s purpose, even equals. The context is that St. Paul is addressing the need to live within the conventions of the day and to accept one’s place in the current paradigm.

“Christ is the head of every man,” states St. Paul. How? In the way that “the husband is the head of his wife.” Paul then states that this paradigm between husband and wife imitates another: “God is the head of Christ.”

While husband and wife have differing roles neither is a greater or lesser human than the other, are they? No. If the man takes the lead in a household is this because he is a superior creature and his wife is inferior? Of course not!

When you go to work, does the fact you have a boss mean that you are inferior to your boss, less human than he is? What about your church? Is your pastor or elder a superior being because they take the lead and you recognize their headship because you are inferior to them? No.

The fact that Christ recognizes a head does not imply that he is any less superior to God, any less than a wife is inferior to her husband. Paul is stating there are certain roles we all play in imitation of Christ. We all have roles to play and need to accept this unless order give way to chaos.

The reason he is speaking of this is because their community had lost propriety in worship services due to some taking leadership when they should have been submissive. (See verse 17-19.) To counter the developing factions Paul was offering submission as the key to order. Doing so demonstrated that Christians weren’t being asked to do any less than emulate Christ, but in the same fashion being submissive to others did not make anyone greater or less than any other human being just as Christ is no less than God or a woman is less than her husband.
 
MarcoPG said:
Yes, the source, not the temporal cause, but the eternal cause.

The cause does not preceed the effect in Eternity, all that is, is because it is. And you see this in the word be-cause too.

The logic of the Trinity escapes the logic of causality. Causality starts from the Trinity, but there is no Causality in the dynamism of the Trinity. The Father is the source of his perfect knowledge of Himself (Son is begotten), but the Father eternally knows Himself perfectly. The Son also causes the Father to be Father, but it is not the Knowledge of the Son, but of the Father which eternally begets the Son. And for God to be Love and submission and contemplation of Himself (Holy Spirit) the Father has the Son to love (proceeding Love from the Father “because” of the Son, therefore proceeding “consequently” also from the Son), and the Son is Son because the Father is Father because of the Son is Son…see the eternal dynamism in love? So the Father as source, but eternally a plurality because of His very nature and attributes.
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This thread is from 2005. How did you find it?
 
dmar198 said:
This thread is from 2005. How did you find it?
Click to expand...
With the search function. Simply looking for a specific subject or word.
When you are interersted in a subject and want to dig deeper into it, you just search, search and search again. And you know for sure that some books, like some threads, are of interest even after 2000-3000 years!
 
MarcoPG said:
With the search function. Simply looking for a specific subject or word.
When you are interersted in a subject and want to dig deeper into it, you just search, search and search again. And you know for sure that some books, like some threads, are of interest even after 2000-3000 years!
Click to expand...
Yes, but reviving old threads is against the rules.
 
dmar198 said:
Yes, but reviving old threads is against the rules.
Click to expand...
When they are not closed? Sorry, i didn’t know that. I thought reviving existing threads would prevent doubles. Okay thank you for the reminder and sorry again.
 
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