"Trinity" by Leon Uris

[HomeschoolDad]

Many years ago I read the novel “Trinity” by Leon Uris. In this novel, set in the 1800s in Ireland, a woman confessed to the priest that she had enjoyed sex within marriage for its own sake, and while not avoiding conception outright, she recited a litany of things that she perceived as sins within marriage. (Though the full text is available on archive.org, I will not reproduce the passage here, as it is borderline pornographic.) For her penance, the priest told her never again to have sex with her husband, and to give one of her sons to the Church.

Did things such as this actually happen? Even if the things she confessed were mortal sins — and it is not clear whether they were or not — did priests give penances such as this? And were they within their rights to do so?

 

[Fauken]

Did things such as this actually happen? Even if the things she confessed were mortal sins — and it is not clear whether they were or not — did priests give penances such as this? And were they within their rights to do so?

I’m going to bet no, it didn’t happen.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

She could get her penance changed so even if it did it wouldn’t matter too much.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’m guessing no, this didn’t happen on any widespread scale.
Of course I can’t vouch that someone, somewhere, did this

 

[Irishmom2]

I read that book when I was in college, in about 1980. I liked it a lot because of the Irish history and culture it covered. I don’t remember the part that you are speaking of specifically, but it may have been over my head at the time.

 

[Greenfields]

I also read it and don’t remember those parts.,I tended to skip anything gross

 

[jack63]

Ireland had major major problems over the last few centuries. The Catholic Church had total control, and their priests where not always good or intelligent. It was a third world country in Europe up until the 1950s. It experienced significant poverty.

Did things such as this actually happen?

Probably…

Even if the things she confessed were mortal sins — and it is not clear whether they were or not — did priests give penances such as this? And were they within their rights to do so?

No…priests were not within their rights to give such penances.

Certainly Pope John Paul II clarified that it is good to enjoy…see reference 14 in the linked document.

Pope John Paul II's Teaching on Women

John Paul IIs vision of the dignity and vocation of women is one of the most exciting events of our era, writes Mary Rousseau, who provides an inspiri...

www.catholiceducation.org

14.See “Marriage and Marital Intercourse” in Wojtyla, Love and Responsibility, pp. 270-78. Here Professor Wojtyla recommends to Christian spouses an effort to achieve simultaneous orgasm and even the use of a sex therapist, should such help be needed, for this orgasmic communion of persons is the heart of the sacrament of matrimony.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I read that book when I was in college, in about 1980. I liked it a lot because of the Irish history and culture it covered. I don’t remember the part that you are speaking of specifically, but it may have been over my head at the time.

Same here. I remember the Irish history parts of the book and also the extended, lurid plot line where the Catholic hero falls in forbidden love with a Protestant girl who is then brutally tortured to death by a bunch of sex-starved Protestant women instigated by their minister, who is also the object of their sexual fantasies.

I don’t remember the scene in the confessional at all. But I daresay Uris didn’t seem to have very good opinions of Christianity.

I also think he just made a lot of stuff up to sell books.

Edited to add, I see Uris wrote a sequel to this book which apparently features a character who becomes a prominent priest and then falls in love and questions his celibacy. Man, this plot line is old and tired.

 

[jack63]

Edited to add, I see Uris wrote a sequel to this book which apparently features a character who becomes a prominent priest and then falls in love and questions his celibacy. Man, this plot line is old and tired.

…and not going away anytime soon…

 

[jack63]

Hmmm…most people are saying they don’t believe this type of thing ever would have happened.

Have you ever really talked to Irish or Northern Irish citizens who were alive back then (or alive in the 50s or 60s) in that country? Some of the stories they’d tell me would make my jaw drop. So, I would say what Leon Uris described is probable.

Not to be funny and to actually be serious the Republican of Ireland once banned tampons in 1947. This is easily found in google, and this is the tip of the Iceberg. One of my family members described a disastrous forced adoption of a child of an unmarried couple once too…I’m still troubled by that story.

 

[Annie]

Well, I read or heard that one of the problems in the US church was that so many priests came from Ireland and the Irish church had been very influenced by Jansenism, which is a type of Catholic Puritanism.

So that may be a rumor, but it would explain your fictional anecdote.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Well, I read or heard that one of the problems in the US church was that so many priests came from Ireland and the Irish church had been very influenced by Jansenism, which is a type of Catholic Puritanism.

Huh? If this was the case it must have gone away by the time my grandparents came over in the late 1800s. There was nothing Jansenistic about my mother’s large, devout Irish-American family. People were not doing extreme penances or worrying they were going to hell every minute and the priests, including the Irish priests, were not encouraging them to think that way. IDK what might have gone on in 1850 or whatever, because at that point my ancestors were too busy trying to get out of Ireland so they wouldn’t starve to death or be killed and so they could go to church at all. It’s also been my understanding that the Irish culture in Ireland has in the past been significantly different from the Irish-American culture in USA.

I don’t doubt that a priest somewhere, whether in Ireland or someplace else, might have given some woman in confession a penance that was out of line/ inappropriate. The Church is huge and some priests do inappropriate things. However, as someone has already stated, the priest is not permitted to give such a penance; the Church cannot tell married people to have sex or not have sex with each other, the penance is too severe and does not have an end. Furthermore, I am not personally aware of ever hearing that anyone received such a penance. And all the Irish-American priests I ever knew were nice men. A couple of them had a slight temper and would sometimes get mad and raise their voice.

 

[rosejmj]

I have read Catholic articles and writings which are very traditional and not in line with Church teaching on sex which state similar things. Sex is about procreation so it should be done as quickly as possible to minimize sexual pleasure(apparently it is sinful?). Even if that means the woman is not satisfied. And if you know you have no chance of getting pregnant you shouldn’t have sex etc.

I know the Church would not agree with these views however. The same people also claim NFP is sinful.