Trinity Explained to Muslims

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The title pretty much says it all. Throughout numerous threads on this forum involving Christians and Muslims there inevitably arises a discussion on the Trinity. This thread seeks to clarify to Muslims the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the Holy Spirit.
Long posts explaining said topics are welcome.
 
I will start by saying that any idea of “partner”, “wife” or “son” as portrayed in the Quran must be put aside, for the discussion’s sake, and words must be understood in the Christian sense, while using human language, but not confining it to its physical meaning.

In the Name of The Father and the Son:

Son:
Son is a metaphorical word. It denotes the relationship between Father and Jesus, or Father and His Word.

In the Arabic language, we say the daughter of lip, which is a metaphore that stands for “word”. .“ما نبس ببنت شفة” [maa nabasa bibinti shafah].

in the same way a word cannot be a physical daughter of a lip but is called as such because it comes from/proceeds/begotten by the lip, likewise, the word Son means the Word, the Logos begotten by the Father.

So if a Muslim is intrested in starting to understand, he must think of the word Son in its correct meaning as Word/Logos/Wisdom and which has nothing to do with marriage/sex/women.

What does it mean that the Word is eternally begotten?

The relationship between the Father and His Word is an eternal relationship since there was no time when the Father was Wordless. In this sense, the Father eternally begets His Word. In other words, the Word/Wisdom of the Father always existed with the Father.

So if a Muslim is intrested in starting to understand, he must think of the word ternally begotten in its correct meaning = that always existed , and which has nothing to do with marriage/sex/women.

In the name of the Father, His Word and:

The Holy Spirit: is God’s Holy Spirit, the Spirit that creates, teaches, give consolation, empowers all people ecc. In the OT and NT, it has nothing to do with a creature but existed before creation just as His Wisdom. The Quran uses the word “sakina”, which comes from the Hebew Shekhinah, a word used to identify the Holy Spirit in the Bible, and which explained in the Talmud as the Divine Emmanence.

So we pray in the name of the Father (Allah), His Word and His Spirit.

Why do we say they are distinct but not seperate?

not seperate because we cannot seperate the Father from His Word or His Spirit.
they are distinct because the Father is the Font which begets His Word and from whom the Spirit proceeds. In this sense of position they are distinct when in essence they are One because the Word and Spirit of God are uncreated and eternal, the essence of God.

Another point must be explained, which is the Incarnation because Muslims often confuse the Incarnation with the Trinity.

The Incarnation is when the eternal and uncreated and divine Word/Logos/Wisdom took a human flesh ,through Mary, without a biological father. Islam agrees that Jesus has no biological father, but the reason is unknown and usually the answer is " because Allah wanted so". In Christianity things have a meaning since God does not act randomly.

In other words, the eternal and uncreated and divine Word/Logos of the Father took an additional human nature, not ceizing to be divine, nor becoming a human in appearance, but 100% divine Word and 100% human flesh.

Another similar concept in Islam is the belief that the Quran is the uncreated and eternal Speech of Allah, not Allah in position yet not different in essence.

Christians have no problem discussing the Trinity, which isn’t about the number 3 but rather about the Oness of God, the Tri-Unity of the Father, His Word and His spirit; on the contrary, we have to discuss what God revealed throughout the OT and NT…we won’t be submitters to God if we reject to believe/explain what He wants us to know and we won’t be Jesus’ followers if we reject to believe in that which He revealed to His church through His apostles.

A Muslim who tells us God is not the Trinity is a Muslim telling us God does not have Word/Wisdom and Spirit, that is, Wordless and Spiritness whereas most Islamic arguments to refute the Trinity center on Jesus’ humanity, a misunderstanding i dealt with above
 
By the same reasoning , I could say God is 4 persons : Father,Son,Spirit and Mind…
or 9 persons with Force, Heart,Power,Knowledge

there was no time when God was Powerless or Mindless… so that means God is 9 persons ;distinct yet not separate.

and speaking of Power…It took the volcano-nature some time ago and it was fully divine and fully volcano…and after awhile,it was the volcano-nature that died out not the divine one.
 
God is 4 persons : Father,Son,Spirit and Mind
Son and Mind refer to the same thing . Check out Logos.

Omnipotence/ommnipresence/power are divine attributes of God’s nature.

and speaking of Power…It took the volcano-nature some time ago and it was fully divine and fully volcano.am reluctant to think that you are serious.

Do you object to the revelation that the Father and His Word and Spirit is One?
 
I think a good approach would be to reiterate Genesis in it’s semitic cosmology:

In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In other words…

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Hopefully you can see the literal allegory to the holy trinity.
 
I think a good approach would be to reiterate Genesis in it’s semitic cosmology:

In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In other words…

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Hopefully you can see the literal allegory to the holy trinity.
Why the word “Word” is missing in the first verse ??
 
If you read like an adult, you will find that the words ‘God said’ is an analogy for word.
 
If you read like an adult, you will find that the words ‘God said’ is an analogy for word.
“God said” = Word :confused:

ok let’s keep on reading
“God saw” = Eye << this should be another person since Word is another person derived from “God said”.

And if you are truly consistent, “God set” “God saw” “God made”…all these make new persons…

it’s true that you can make the Bible say anything you want…
 
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Wisdom of Solomon 9:9 With you (God) is Wisdom, who knows your works and was present when you made the world.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Proverbs 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (1:11)
1 Enoch 42:2 Wisdom went forth to make her dwelling among the children of men, and found no dwelling place.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Sirach 24:8 The one who created me assigned a place for my tent. And he said: ‘Make your dwelling in Jerusalem.’

John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you.
Wisdom of Solomon 16:26 On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those who trust in you.

John 14:15 If you love me, you will obey what I command.
Wisdom of Solomon 16:18 And love of Wisdom is the keeping of her laws, and giving heed to her laws is assurance of immortality.
 
“God said” = Word :confused:

ok let’s keep on reading
“God saw” = Eye << this should be another person since Word is another person derived from “God said”.

And if you are truly consistent, “God set” “God saw” “God made”…all these make new persons…

it’s true that you can make the Bible say anything you want…
the passage and others combined show that God creates by His Word and Spirit. When we talk about Word, it does not refer to when God uttered for Wisdom/Word does not need be uttered to exist.
 
How about this?

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.
 
Dear Nicholas,
The title of this thread is “Trinity Explained to Muslims” and not “Let’s sit around discussing the Trinity from neither a Christian or Islamic standpoint.” Please don’t derail this thread. If you wish to question the Trinity from a viewpoint different than that of a Muslim, then please start a different thread. Thanks and God Bless.
 
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