Trinity mystery?

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Jesus DID say that He and the Father were One

I And The Father Are One

Question

Jesus said: “I and the Father are one” (Jn.10:30), therefore, is not Jesus the same, or, “co-equal” in status with his Father?

Answer

In Greek, heis' means one’ numerically (masc.) hen' means one’ in unity or essence (neut.) Here the word used by John is hen' and not heis’. The marginal notes in New American Standard Bible (NASB) reads; one - (Lit.neuter) a unity, or, one essence.

If one wishes to argue that the word `hen’ supports their claim for Jesus being “co-equal” in status with his Father, please invite his/her attention to the following verse:

Jesus said: “And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one.” (John 17:22).

If he/she was to consider/regard/believe the Father and Jesus Christ to be “one” meaning “co-equal” in status on the basis of John 10:30, then that person should also be prepared to consider/regard/believe “them” - the disciples of Jesus, to be “co-equal” in status with the Father and Jesus (“just as we are one”) in John 17:22. I have yet to find a person that would be prepared to make the disciples (students) “co-equal” in status with the Father or Jesus.

The unity and accord was of the authorized divine message that originated from the Father, received by Jesus and finally passed on to the disciples. Jesus admitted having accomplished the work which the Father had given him to do. (Jn.17:4)

Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)

Jesus said: “I go to the Father; for the** Father is greater than I.” (Jn.14:28). **This verse unequivocally refutes the claim by any one for Jesus being “co-equal” in status with his Father.

islam.thetruecall.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24&mode

 

[geometer]

Jesus said: “I go to the Father; for the** Father is greater than I.” (Jn.14:28). **This verse unequivocally refutes the claim by any one for Jesus being “co-equal” in status with his Father.

You have made a very fine point, but I do not believe that any of them will change their oppinion. Even though Jesus in this verse seems to be revealing, very personally, his devotion.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Jesus also said:

“‘My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” John 10:27-33

Now if we go by the Muslim hypothesis, Jesus was contradicting himself - since we know that He didn’t contradict himself, we can easily dismiss the Islamic misinterpretation and accept the true one that Nicaea recognized.

 

[geometer]

John 10:33-37

The Jews answered him, “We stone you for no good work but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.” Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods’?

If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me;…

 

[DonLeon]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

I And The Father Are One

Question

Jesus said: “I and the Father are one” (Jn.10:30), therefore, is not Jesus the same, or, “co-equal” in status with his Father?

Answer

In Greek, heis' means one’ numerically (masc.) hen' means one’ in unity or essence (neut.) Here the word used by John is hen' and not heis’. The marginal notes in New American Standard Bible (NASB) reads; one - (Lit.neuter) a unity, or, one essence.

If one wishes to argue that the word `hen’ supports their claim for Jesus being “co-equal” in status with his Father, please invite his/her attention to the following verse:

Jesus said: “And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one.” (John 17:22).

If he/she was to consider/regard/believe the Father and Jesus Christ to be “one” meaning “co-equal” in status on the basis of John 10:30, then that person should also be prepared to consider/regard/believe “them” - the disciples of Jesus, to be “co-equal” in status with the Father and Jesus (“just as we are one”) in John 17:22. I have yet to find a person that would be prepared to make the disciples (students) “co-equal” in status with the Father or Jesus.

The unity and accord was of the authorized divine message that originated from the Father, received by Jesus and finally passed on to the disciples. Jesus admitted having accomplished the work which the Father had given him to do. (Jn.17:4)

Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)

Jesus said: “I go to the Father; for the** Father is greater than I.” (Jn.14:28). **This verse unequivocally refutes the claim by any one for Jesus being “co-equal” in status with his Father.

islam.thetruecall.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24&mode

When Moses asked God what was His name God answeered “I AM”. “I am who I am…
that is my name for ever”. When the Jews asked Jesus who he was, he answered " I am", and again “before Abraham came to be I am”.

Also, yes, the Father is greater than Jesus. Isn’t your father greater than you? Doesn’t your father give you authority in some family matters? Jesus said this to distinguish His
position in a filial relationship, not in glory majesty or power. Jesus IS God the Son.

As you and your father share the human nature, so do the Father, Son and Holy Spirit share the Divine Nature. The existence of the Trinity is alluded to in scripture and cannot be denied. The full revelation of which we as mortals cannot understand and can only guess at and speculate or deny and call folly or satanic, will be fully revealed to us when we meet our creator.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[geometer]

If he/she was to consider/regard/believe the Father and Jesus Christ to be “one” meaning “co-equal” in status on the basis of John 10:30, then that person should also be prepared to consider/regard/believe “them” - the disciples of Jesus, to be “co-equal” in status with the Father and Jesus (“just as we are one”) in John 17:22. I have yet to find a person that would be prepared to make the disciples (students) “co-equal” in status with the Father or Jesus.

Well, three is a more popular number than 15. In ancient times three was regarded as the first number. In Kabbalah the third emmanation is understanding. Of course, 15 is the number value of the name Yah…

 

[madabkr4tx]

Did Jesus ever mention this Mystery?
If it “is” a mystery why do some people here claim to understand it and try to explain it to a person struggling with it.

As I posted in another thread on this subject: Water has three forms, yet it remains water in all three forms.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

As I posted in another thread on this subject: Water has three forms, yet it remains water in all three forms.

Time is also in 3 elements. Past, Present, and Future. How can time be in 3 elements, but God cant be in 3 persons?

Muslims need to realize God is God, His nature is beyond our limited understanding. This is why God replied to Moses by saying “I Am what I Am”, because how can a man like Moses even try to imagine to grasp the essense of the Author of the Universe?

 

[madabkr4tx]

Time is also in 3 elements. Past, Present, and Future. How can time be in 3 elements, but God cant be in 3 persons?

Muslims need to realize God is God, His nature is beyond our limited understanding. This is why God replied to Moses by saying “I Am what I Am”, because how can a man like Moses even try to imagine to grasp the essense of the Author of the Universe?

I do not disagree with this. I was only in my own small way trying to help answer the question. I apologize If I have offended you.

 

[Veridical16]

Jesus mentions it directly in Matthew 28:17–20

" The eleven 9 disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had ordered them.
17
10 When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
18
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, ’ All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19
Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them** in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,**
20
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.’ "

Jesus gave the apostles this form of baptism, which comes from him the second person, according to Catholic apologists…he acknowledges the trinity.

Not only that, in the New Testament, Jesus is referred to the way God, the father is referred to in the Old Testament…Jesus was present in the Old Testament as the “word”, and John has a deeper grasp on the witness to Jesus Christ…

It sure is a mystery, but the clues are definitely there and revealed.