Trinity OT

[fellicia]

Was trinity ever mentioned in the O.T. if not why not?

 

[fellicia]

and where is it in the NT?

 

[Mickey]

Genesis 18:1-5

And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.
He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men stood in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the earth,
and said, “My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant.
Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree,
while I fetch a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on – since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.”
img71.imageshack.us/img71/9373/rublev7gv.th.jpg

 

[Della]

It is first hinted at in Genesis 1:26a: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”.

The Messianic passages of the Psalms and Isaiah also mention a son of God who is more than a man, such as in Ps.2:7: “I will tell of the decree of the LORD:He said to me, ‘You are my son,
today I have begotten you.’” And Isa.9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called ‘Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.’”

And there are several OT references to the Spirit of the Lord.

It was left to the Christ to reveal the inner life of the Trinity and left up to the Church of Christ (the Catholic Church) to define this mystery.

 

[msproule]

Do an internet search of “Typology Old Testament Trinity” and you will find plenty of information.

Here is one: newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm#II (subsection B)

 

[fellicia]

I am talking to a Jew on another forum. Is there any quotes that he can not turn around.

Thanx xxx

 

[Montie_Claunch]

You might like www.scripturecatholic.com it does a argueing of it (or you might not like it at all) this is all I can think of (sorry I couldn’t be of more help).

Here are the links.
scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html
scripturecatholic.com/the_holy_spirit.html
scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html

I hope these help.

 

[JimG]

You won’t be able to demonstrate the existince of the Trinity from the Old Testament. God revealed Himself gradually over the course of the covenant. His full revelation was made in the person of Jesus Christ.

 

[mercygate]

fellicia:

I am talking to a Jew on another forum. Is there any quotes that he can not turn around.

Thanx xxx

You have a Jew who wants to proof-text? This is not how the Church came to the definition of the Holy Trinity. You will not find definitive clarity on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity in the OT because the Incarnation had not yet taken place.

Examples given by other posters point you in the direction of the doctrine, but nowhere in Scripture will you find a statement that God is three in one and one in three. It took the Church more than 300 years to figure this one out, so don’t expect instant acceptance.

 

[JimG]

mercygate:

You have a Jew who wants to proof-text? This is not how the Church came to the definition of the Holy Trinity. You will not find definitive clarity on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity in the OT because the Incarnation had not yet taken place.

Examples given by other posters point you in the direction of the doctrine, but nowhere in Scripture will you find a statement that God is three in one and one in three. It took the Church more than 300 years to figure this one out, so don’t expect instant acceptance.

Mercygate is right. Although there are hints of the nature of God in the OT, God’s primary purpose there was to keep them faithful to the one true God, and away from the strange gods of polytheism, as well as to form a people to whom the Messiah would be sent.

Even when the Messiah came, He did not just drop by synagogue one day and say, “Oh, by the way, God is really three Persons in one nature, and I myself am the Second Person become incarnate.”

That had to be demonstrated through His authoritative teaching, his miracles, and especially His resurrection from the dead. Only then would they be fully ready to take in this truth. And even after his followers were convinced that He was indeed the Son of God, and the He and the Father are One, and that the Holy Spirit was sent to teach them all things, they still had to find the words to express that concept. He didn’t just give them a formula.

So, a Jew cannot really be convinced of the Trinity until he is first convinced that Jesus is Messiah.

 

[bengal_fan]

fellicia:

I am talking to a Jew on another forum. Is there any quotes that he can not turn around.

Thanx xxx

to be honest, no. there are no quotes which he cannot give a refute to and say that they mean something else. which is why the trinity is something of a mystery. the main reason we believe it is because it is what the church taught from the beginning. and we have to think about that. these were mostly jewish “converts” (i prefer to call them “fulfilled jews”) to Christianity. the idea of more than one God would be blasphemy to them. but the idea of a triune God could fit into how they understood God and could be reconciled with the old testament and the prophecies of the messiah therein.

 

[rwoehmke]

In the first verse of Genesis a mighty wind is the Holy Spirit, the Son is represented by the creative Word of God. The first verses of John’s Gospel is a clue to this Word. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God etc. I can tell you though that most Jews with knowledge of thge OT do not read into all that we Christians do. A Christian Bible Scholar like Scott Hahn or Jeff Cavins can find all sorts of correlation between the Old and the New.

 

[mercygate]

JimG:

Even when the Messiah came, He did not just drop by synagogue one day and say, “Oh, by the way, God is really three Persons in one nature, and I myself am the Second Person become incarnate.”

Best laugh o’ the day!

For my :twocents: , the Trinity is one of those teachings that arose from Jesus’ promise to send the Spirit who “will guide you into all the truth” (Jn 16:13). The trinitarian foreshadowings we, as Christians, see in the OT appear obvious to us because we have changed our angle of vision and read everything in the OT through the eyes of the new Covenant.

A Jew will have trouble with that. I think the best way to teach that (and it IS teaching) is to ask him to start from the premise that Jesus is the Messiah, and work your way backwards.

It is my belief that Paul spent those three years in Arabia (Gal. 1:17) after his conversion poring over the OT Scriptures with his new scale-free eyes, re-casting his understanding of the faith according to the Person of Jesus Christ. Only THEN did he begin preaching the Gospel.

 

[thistle]

fellicia:

and where is it in the NT?

Matthew 28:19 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them **in the name of ** the Father, and of the Son,and of the Holy Spirit”.