Trinity

[bones_IV]

For those who say there is not trinity mentioned in the old testament, consider what Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” Evidently, God when saying “let us make man in our image”, was referring to himself.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Also:
“…Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil…”
Genisis 3:22

“Let US go down, and there confound their language…”
Genisis 11:7

 

[paramedicgirl]

bones_IV:

For those who say there is not trinity mentioned in the old testament, consider what Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” Evidently, God when saying “let us make man in our image”, was referring to himself.

Yes, and He is speaking of himself in plural form, as He is is Genesis 11:7 at the Tower of Babel when He says, “Let us go down and confound their tongue, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” Since just the Lord went down, God is again referring to himself in the plural form.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

A jw elder tried to tell me the use of ‘us’ in these verses was simply God speaking to his angels, ordering them to acompany him to earth to do his work. Pretty weak explanation!

 

[Truthseeker4]

IS 48:16
Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there." And now the Lord GOD has sent me and his Spirit.

Melissa

 

[paramedicgirl]

Chris LaRock:

A jw elder tried to tell me the use of ‘us’ in these verses was simply God speaking to his angels, ordering them to acompany him to earth to do his work. Pretty weak explanation!

Thanks for that post! Now I’ll be prepared for that response when I see them next. If they come back…

 

[Your_Brother]

Chris LaRock:

A jw elder tried to tell me the use of ‘us’ in these verses was simply God speaking to his angels, ordering them to acompany him to earth to do his work. Pretty weak explanation!

Note true and I can speak for Jehovah’s people, I know several. Jesus lived with his Father back when Moses wrote Genesis 3:22 “And God said, Behold, the man is become as one of “us”, to know good and evil… “Us” implies that this means more than one (two beings). God the Father and Jesus Christ, the first born of creation, the Son of God is “us” in Genesis 3:22. Peace and Love, tommy

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

bones_IV:

For those who say there is not trinity mentioned in the old testament, consider what Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” Evidently, God when saying “let us make man in our image”, was referring to himself.

That plural is a pretty certainly a “plural of deliberation” - it’s not incompatible with Christian faith in the Trinity, but whether there is a direct relation in the way seen by some, is another matter. There may be a secondary application of the text to the Trinity, given that Christ is the subject of the entire Bible - but it will, in the context of the OT, be a secondary one.​

It’s important not to see NT realities in a way that entails not doing justice to what OT texts meant to OT people in OT times (so far, and in such degree, and with such probability, as that can be reconstructed). The Israelites had their own distinctive theological themes, many of which they shared with other nations, and several of which reappear in transfigured form in NT thinking & preaching: Christ is a Divine Warrior in Revelation 19; just like JHWH in Exodus 15; or Baal in various texts and art. The OT is not the NT- it looks forward, incompletely, from “various times and places” (Hebrews 1.1) to Christ-yet-to-be-Incarnate, it doesn’t draw on the riches of Christ Incarnate, Raised, and Glorified. The NT writers & churches did that - for they were in a position to see the OT & its meaning in the light of His Coming.

It was difficult enough for God to get into the heads of His people that He was uniquely and alone the One eternal God - read Isaiah 40-55. There was no shortage of Divine triads & threesomes, as the JWs are accustomed to point out. However, what they take as a Divine rebuke to belief in all trinities without exception, is as likely to be part of a Divine preparation for Christ to come “in the fullness of time” and make the Blessed Trinity Who is God Himself, known by the power of His own self-sacrificing self-forgetting Love. So to reveal something in OT times which makes sense only in the light of the Love of the Father & the Son and the Spirit, and the clue to which is Christ Himself, would have required the Jews to have had a faith different from what they did. ISTM anyway. ##

 

[bones_IV]

## That plural is a pretty certainly a “plural of deliberation” - it’s not incompatible with Christian faith in the Trinity, but whether there is a direct relation in the way seen by some, is another matter. There may be a secondary application of the text to the Trinity, given that Christ is the subject of the entire Bible - but it will, in the context of the OT, be a secondary one.

It’s important not to see NT realities in a way that entails not doing justice to what OT texts meant to OT people in OT times (so far, and in such degree, and with such probability, as that can be reconstructed). The Israelites had their own distinctive theological themes, many of which they shared with other nations, and several of which reappear in transfigured form in NT thinking & preaching: Christ is a Divine Warrior in Revelation 19; just like JHWH in Exodus 15; or Baal in various texts and art. The OT is not the NT- it looks forward, incompletely, from “various times and places” (Hebrews 1.1) to Christ-yet-to-be-Incarnate, it doesn’t draw on the riches of Christ Incarnate, Raised, and Glorified. The NT writers & churches did that - for they were in a position to see the OT & its meaning in the light of His Coming.

It was difficult enough for God to get into the heads of His people that He was uniquely and alone the One eternal God - read Isaiah 40-55. There was no shortage of Divine triads & threesomes, as the JWs are accustomed to point out. However, what they take as a Divine rebuke to belief in all trinities without exception, is as likely to be part of a Divine preparation for Christ to come “in the fullness of time” and make the Blessed Trinity Who is God Himself, known by the power of His own self-sacrificing self-forgetting Love. So to reveal something in OT times which makes sense only in the light of the Love of the Father & the Son and the Spirit, and the clue to which is Christ Himself, would have required the Jews to have had a faith different from what they did. ISTM anyway. ##

How were the Jews supposed to know there was a trinity in the old testament. It was revealed over time there was a trinity. Its what we call divine revelation. What I said there does not in any way condemn what Jews believed in the old testament. Many Jews believed in the OT but (name removed by moderator)erfectly. This is why the Church came to understand it as referring to the Trinity.