Triple Threat

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You stole my thunder. that is what I was going to say.
St. Patrick used the three leaf clover to explain the Trinity. 3 leafs = 3 persons 1 clover/ 1 God. each leaf is equal to the other but not a different clover. St Patrick explained it better. 😃
I believe Father Barron said something like this… if a person can say the understand God, or Gods mind… then they have understood something that is other than God. This or words to that effect.
 
I believe Father Barron said something like this… if a person can say the understand God, or Gods mind… then they have understood something that is other than God. This or words to that effect.
I agree I just tell people mostly that I will see and understand when I stand before him.
 
I’m sorry for always posting rather simple questions that most Catholics already know the answer to, but I lack the knowledge and experience when it comes to matters of your faith. Please correct me if I happen to misperceive any information, and do not be offended if I have made a mistake in interpreting your theology.

Explain to me how ā€œThe Trinityā€ is not polytheistic. I came across this in a discussion with a German Muslim when we were discussing Isa (Jesus). He told me ā€œbecause G-d is without equal and is omnipotent, how can He be subsetted into three distinct but equally powerful factions?ā€ This stuck with me. Throughout my life, I have educated that G-d is without partner or equal, and that He is the one and only god. To me, the concept of the Trinity is almost Hindu in practice.

My question is ā€œhow do Catholics circumnavigate the Trinity towards being monotheistic without lessening the might of G-d?ā€

Sincerely,
Your Jewish Neighbor
To me, the simplest way to understand this is to get back to Genesis, which tells us we’re made in God’s image. This means, if God is a trinity, we’ll have a trinitarian nature too.

And we do. We have body, mind, and spirit. and unless all three are operating and functional, then we’re not fully human.

But they are so closely integrated, we’re not aware of our trinitarian. When I say ā€œIā€, that’s what I mean - me - even if I am this trinitarian nature in reality. And so are you, and so is your Moslem neighbour.

I know for a fact soul and mind can operate without the body, because I had the peculiar experience of my (very cruel) father turning up the night in my bedroom he died. He started with an apology for his cruelty, we argued and talked, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and disappeared.

But his body was dead. Yet we were talking (hence he had a mind), and he had a spirit, as I still remember being able to see him, but also see through him if I wanted to. I had this old chipboard bookcase against the far wall, and I still remember being able to see it through him if I wanted to focus on it. I suppose it was bit like looking at smoke and flames from a camp fire - you can look at the flames and smoke themselves, or you can look through them and see the rest of your mates sitting on the other side.

We’re a trinity, and we’re made in God’s image.

The triinitarian revelation comes through Christ - the voice addressing the crowd at His baptism - ā€œThis is my Son, with whom I am well pleasedā€. Then later, ā€œThe Father and I are oneā€. Then the transfiguration - ā€œThis is my Son. Listen to Him.ā€ Then Pentecost, ā€œI will send you the Holy Spirit.ā€ And so on. And at Pentecost the Holy Spirit came visibly, and the church has been going ever since.

Do we understand it? Not a bit. But then I don’t know how God made the universe out of nothing either.

We accept the Trinity by faith, as revealed in the revelation of Jesus Christ, and through Jesus Christ. But then, do you understand your own Trinitarian nature, and how the three components that comprise you work so closely together that you are only aware of being ā€œIā€?

I doubt it - if you’re like me, you wouldn’t understand how your own brain works, let alone how it appears to be ā€œmindā€ while you’re still alive, but when you die, you take your ā€œmindā€ and memories with you, as my father did.

Not that it did him much good - I still remember the absolutely terrifying scream just before he disappeared again.
 
God is One and no other; God’s Essence never comes down to us, for anyone to see God face to face will surely die.

God’s presence however according to Adam, Abraham and Moses was revealed in the Father’s voice who is God’s presence.

Moses and the prophets are inspired by the Holy Spirit who is God’s presence to write and record what the Holy Spirit revealed and inspired them to write.

Now that Word which proceeded from the Father’s voice in the Holy Spirit who revealed to Moses and the prophets what the Word of God reveals.

That Word which the Father sent out to create all things is God in presence, and what the Word who is the creative cause, is eternally begotten of the Father who is the creator, the Holy Spirit gives life to the works of God.

Each time God reveals His presence, distinctly in the voice (Father), Word (eternally begotten Son) and in the Breath of God (Holy Spirit) there is never a time that God is not God in His presence. When all three living persons are eternally God in Essence, Yet distinct in presence, personal and person Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Do Moses or the prophets ever deny that the Word of God is not God?
Do Moses or the prophets ever deny that the voice of God is not God?
Do Moses or the prophets ever deny that God never inspired them to write revelations by God?

Any thing Holy that possesses the highest of being Holy is revealed THRICE. God has revealed divine revelation

God is personified thrice in all Holiness presence Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
God’s Essence veiled in Trinity presence reveals an eternal procession of God’s revelation in all creation and to all of humanity in every age.

God never ceased to be One God when God revealed His presence to Moses in a bush of fire that did not burn, in the ark, in the fire by night and the cloud by day. In each of these divine revelations reveals the presence of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. But this divine revelation does not get revealed to our humanity until the fullness of times, when the virgin gives birth to a Child who is Emmanuel, according to Moses and the prophets.

Yet we know the rock, the bush, fire, cloud is never God. But God’s presence is revealed not God’s Essence. God’s presence in Voice, Word and Breath personifies God living eternally. For the Voice (Father), Word (Son), Breath (Holy Spirit) distinctly possesses God’s Essence is eternally One God, without confusion and without separation. For anyone to separate the eternal Trinity of persons divides life which is death, thus the Trinity is life being existing, undivided.

Peace be with you
 
I always like the H2O explanation. Vapor, water, ice all the same molecule.
 
I always like the H2O explanation. Vapor, water, ice all the same molecule.
That’s modalism, Patrick!

Trinity – Trinitarian Errors
youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

Polytheism

Father, Son & Holy Spirit are three separate gods.

Modalism

God is not three distinct persons but merely reveals himself in three different forms.

Example: Water is found in three forms - solid-ice, liquid-water, gas-vapor.
A man can be a husband, a father and an employer.

Condemned at Constantinople I (381) in Canon 1.

Arianism

The Son and the Holy Spirit are creations of the Father and one in nature with Him.

Example: The sun (1) produces light (2) and heat (3).

Partialism

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not distinct persons of the Godhead but are different parts of God.

Example: In a three-leaf clover, each leaf is only part of the whole.
 
Rather than blather on and on with things you must have heard over and over again, my direct question to you is what evidence do you have to support any kind of claim that would support your position?

You must bring the evidence to light for all to examine if your intention is honorable.

Bring it.
 
Rather than blather on and on with things you must have heard over and over again, my direct question to you is what evidence do you have to support any kind of claim that would support your position?

You must bring the evidence to light for all to examine if your intention is honorable.

Bring it.
Who are you talking to? 🤷
 
Rather than blather on and on with things you must have heard over and over again, my direct question to you is what evidence do you have to support any kind of claim that would support your position?

You must bring the evidence to light for all to examine if your intention is honorable.

Bring it.
Faith. Fact; the virgin birth, the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ crucified reveals the law and prophets fulfilled, and that God the Father is made known in the only begotten Son Jesus Christ incarnate, who revealed the Father and the Father revealed the Son, and the Holy Spirit Himself confirmed the divine revelations and made them known to all ages, see the whole canon of scripture.

Faith reveals that a person exist by the call name StrawberryJam. Yet I have never seen or met the person who goes by the name StrawberryJam. Only by the words StrawberryJam revealed here, produced a faith that a person exist by the call name StrawberryJam.

Can you prove a person who goes by the call name StrawberryJam exist or does not exist?

The Trinity in presence which eternally proceeds is God’s revelation made known in space and time. God’s Essence however is eternal existing, which no one has seen or God does not make known His eternal Essence. Should God reveal His eternal Essence in space and time? Space and time would cease to exist or as the bible reveals, will surely die, because eternity’s presence removes all things in space and time.

Do you deny that God has not revealed His presence to His creation? Trinity answers God dwells with the human race.

For anyone to place God’s presence as divided faction’s divides God with blasphemy.
The Trinity is ONE GOD and no other. God calls us to faith into His divine eternal spiritual realities here which supersedes any carnal mind of thought which returns to dust.
 
This has been one of the hardest thing to visualise during the growing up years. How can God be 3 persons and yet each distinct person is fully and equal God?

Someone used the example of a triangle to represent the Trinity. Unfortunately each side of the triangle is not a full and equal to the triangle proper. Another used the sun, its light and heat as an example of the Trinity, but it fails for the same reason as above. Each attribute is not fully equal to the source entity.

Definitely, full understanding of the nature of God will remain a mystery. We were revealed partly or even if revealed fully, perhaps none can comprehend what it is. Perhaps our earthly mind has been trained to identify objects and things on a one-to-one basis. And hence the maths don’t add up. However, God’s essence is a different ā€œmeasureā€ (I don’t know the word) altogether. How would one describe 1 essence, 3 persons, which requires a different set of ā€œmeasurementsā€ for describing the attributes of deities? Perhaps it is a language constraint that we are not able to talk at deity level. Hence, our words are insufficient to describe such ā€œthingsā€. It is not in our vocabulary yet. We don’t do heaven-speak. It took a while for transubstantiation to be in our syntax for example.

Then in college years I stumbled on the word quantum. Quantum this and quantum that. Particles in 2 or more different places at the same time and/or depending who is looking at it from what location. 1 thing 2 places. I could handle 3 dimensions, but not more than that and yet scientists handle multidimenional problems in a nonchalant way. How come we don’t have difficulty in understanding that? Couldn’t quantum physicists then describe Trinity in quantum language then? Some of these people are quite imaginative when trying to disproof God. Multiverse come to mind. If they use their talents in the right places, then perhaps, just perhaps they could come up with the proper syntax to describe the Trinity. Is it a contradiction or is it possible?

Any takers?
 
I’m sorry for always posting rather simple questions that most Catholics already know the answer to, but I lack the knowledge and experience when it comes to matters of your faith. Please correct me if I happen to misperceive any information, and do not be offended if I have made a mistake in interpreting your theology.

Explain to me how ā€œThe Trinityā€ is not polytheistic. I came across this in a discussion with a German Muslim when we were discussing Isa (Jesus). He told me ā€œbecause G-d is without equal and is omnipotent, how can He be subsetted into three distinct but equally powerful factions?ā€ This stuck with me. Throughout my life, I have educated that G-d is without partner or equal, and that He is the one and only god. To me, the concept of the Trinity is almost Hindu in practice.

My question is ā€œhow do Catholics circumnavigate the Trinity towards being monotheistic without lessening the might of G-d?ā€

Sincerely,
Your Jewish Neighbor
Although it did happen exactly like this, here is how to understand it more clearly.
Okay lets say you exist. Now if you exist you have always existed as yourself right?

Stay with me here, it will make sense I promise.

Okay now you have the power of all heaven and earth to do as you please, always have, always will.

Now you created the heaven and earth and then humans in your image. BUT you can be in whatever image you want. You can be a voice in the sky, ( the Father in the word), THen you can choose to be the (SON) the WORD becomes flesh, then you can become the HOLY Spirit the Spirit that can dwell within human hearts.

Because God choose to reveal himself in 3 ways in no way changes his Authority.

So if he comes down to this earth, and reveals himself as the Son, how can he have any less authority as he did as the word, or the Holy Spirit, if they are all ONE?

So do you understand how the Son always existed from the beginning of time? Because the Son is God. But it was in the Human Form as Jesus where the Son was revealed.

Lets say I work with you side by side for 30 years, but I am also the owner of the company, but never told you. What you see is the lower form of myself as bringing myself to your level, but what I have not revealed to you was my higher level which was your boss.

Just because you thought I was a average worker side by side, you treated me as your would a regular worker, but if I was the Owner you would see me different.

God revealed himself as the Son because he wanted us to see him at our own level. But it in no way made him any less powerful as the owner who worked as your co worker who owned the company.

Hope this helps.
 
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