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MarkThompson
Guest
In any language, the GIRM says no such thing whatsoever. It says that people are to kneel or stand to receive Holy Communion, as the conference of bishops shall have determined.
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jmcrae
Guest
Well, then, in Canada it will be standing, with no option for kneeling - but we were told that newcomers from other countries will also not be trying to kneel for Holy Communion, since it will be forbidden all over the whole world.
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jmcrae
Guest
Is this the present GIRM, or the new one that is about to be published?
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Phemie
Guest
But Redemptionis Sacramentum 90 makes it clear, referring to GIRM 160 that deals with Communion posture, that what the Conferences have determined had to be approved by recognitio and it has been made clear by other documents that recognitio was only granted as long as there was a guarantee that those who wished to kneel would still be allowed to do so.
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Phemie
Guest
That is absolutely false.Well, then, in Canada it will be standing, with no option for kneeling - but we were told that newcomers from other countries will also not be trying to kneel for Holy Communion, since it will be forbidden all over the whole world.
The 2002 GIRM, which is what the US uses and what we’ll be using in November (we now use the 1975 GIRM) does not in any way forbid kneeling for Communion. That would be ridiculous considering Pope Benedict insists on kneeling and on the tongue by everyone who comes to him.
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jmcrae
Guest
Okay - that makes sense. I’m not sure what my teacher was saying, then - it really seemed like he was saying that kneeling for Holy Communion is being taken away, and that, like the Eastern Church, the Western Church will also be standing for Holy Communion, except for the Extraordinary Form.
Maybe I misheard something.
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Phemie
Guest
It depends on what country you’re speaking of. The GIRM the US follows is the one published in 2002. It goes with the 2002 Missal we will be using in November. It took a few years to translate but the US has been using it for several years now. We still function with the 1975 one but will start using the 2002 one in November.
Some adaptations may be made for Canada re. posture (we may not be kneeling everywhere the US does, for example). In the universal GIRM there is only call for kneeling at the Consecration – and obviously Communion where it’s the norm, but it allows conferences to adapt for their own countries.
postures described in the Order of Mass to the culture and reasonable traditions
of the people.
53 The Conference, however, must make sure that such adaptations
correspond to the meaning and character of each part of the celebration. Where
it is the practice for the people to remain after the
*Sanctus *until the end of the
Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the priest says
Ecce Agnus Dei
(This is the Lamb of God), this practice is laudably retained.
The US has opted to require kneeling for all the Eucharistic Prayer for everyone (so from immediately after the Holy, Holy until after the AMEN); they also require kneeling from “This is the Lamb of God” until they go to Communion for all **unless **the Bishop decide on standing for all parishes in his diocese at that point. At this point it appears that Canada will allow two options “only Consecration” or “immediately after the Holy, Holy until the Memorial Acclamation” but not at all after the Agnus Dei.
But the GIRM for has not yet been officially promulgated so we have to wait and see. In fact the CCCB’s website says this: The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB) has received recognitio for all sections of the English translation of the revised Roman Missal for use in Canada. The Permanent Council has agreed that the first Sunday of Advent, November 27, 2011, will be the date for the implementation of the English translation of the Missal. The official decree for this date has not yet been published, because our Conference is still clarifying the exact wording of one of the adaptations for Canada.
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zab
Guest
Or maybe you heard correctly, but your teacher was mistaken.Okay - that makes sense. I’m not sure what my teacher was saying, then - it really seemed like he was saying that kneeling for Holy Communion is being taken away, and that, like the Eastern Church, the Western Church will also be standing for Holy Communion, except for the Extraordinary Form.
Maybe I misheard something.
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MarkThompson
Guest
That’s the basic, underlying text of the Latin GIRM, the normative editio typica.
This is true, but that doesn’t make kneeling the norm and standing something that is permitted only by indult.
Ultimately, this derives from Eucharisticum Mysterium (1967), which contained the following provision:
34. The Way of Receiving Communion
a) In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches. The faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated by their pastors, so that Communion may truly be a sign of the brotherly union of all those who share in the same table of the Lord.
b) When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament is required, since kneeling is itself a sign of adoration.
When they receive Communion standing, it is strongly recommended that, coming up in procession, they should make a sign of reverence before receiving the Blessed Sacrament. This should be done at the right time and place, so that the order of people going to and from Communion may not be disrupted.
As you can see, there is no norm, and if the bishops of a country wanted to determine that Communion is to be received standing, that would also require the approval of the CDW.
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Digitonomy
Guest
Returning to the OP, I once came close to tripping after receiving, as I was returning to my seat. This was toward the end of communion, and one of the ministers of communion had been freed from another line, so there were now 3 or 4 lines to receive the host at the front of the center aisle, with lines for the cup further to the sides.
In this unwise configuration, it was necessary due to the tight space for those who received closer to the center to cross through the line that split further to the left, in order to circle back down the left aisle to their seats. The default spot for this crossing through was in the slightly larger gap behind the person receiving communion, and in front of the person “on deck.” Unfortunately this gap disappeared just as I was going to thread the needle, and I did a rather graceless hop over the legs of the communicant.
If I had been familiar with this parish, I might have been able to plan for this sort of event, but it developed a bit too quickly, since my mind was on more important things.
In this unwise configuration, it was necessary due to the tight space for those who received closer to the center to cross through the line that split further to the left, in order to circle back down the left aisle to their seats. The default spot for this crossing through was in the slightly larger gap behind the person receiving communion, and in front of the person “on deck.” Unfortunately this gap disappeared just as I was going to thread the needle, and I did a rather graceless hop over the legs of the communicant.
If I had been familiar with this parish, I might have been able to plan for this sort of event, but it developed a bit too quickly, since my mind was on more important things.
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Spirithound
Guest
Well then receiving Holy Communion on the tongue will have to go to, at least when the communicant is rather taller than the priest…
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The_Old_Medic
Guest
Yes, this HAS happened. One young jerk suddenly dropped to his knees, causing an elderly woman to trip over his ankles. She fractured her hip when she hit the tile floor. This happened in my parish in Escondido, CA several years ago.
I have seen this happen several times. Not a fall and a broken hip, but tripping people, causing them to stumble, etc.
There is absolutely NO excuse to suddenly, without warning, drop to your knees in a crowd of people. You show no special respect for the sacrament at all by doing this. (If you think that only kneeling or genuflecting count, then you have NOT observed the Priests actions during Mass. They BOW repeatedly during the Mass.)
A bow of the head is appropriate, and all that is needed or required. To do more is to do nothing but attempt to show how “pious” you are. it is the modern day equivalence of the actions of the Pharisees that Jesus condemned. They were all about showing everyone how religious they were, how they observed the “letter” of the law.
And that is what is behind this concept of dropping to your knees during communion. It is all show, and has absolutely nothing at all to do with piety. Piety would be following the rules of the Church quietly and without calling attention to yourself.
I have seen this happen several times. Not a fall and a broken hip, but tripping people, causing them to stumble, etc.
There is absolutely NO excuse to suddenly, without warning, drop to your knees in a crowd of people. You show no special respect for the sacrament at all by doing this. (If you think that only kneeling or genuflecting count, then you have NOT observed the Priests actions during Mass. They BOW repeatedly during the Mass.)
A bow of the head is appropriate, and all that is needed or required. To do more is to do nothing but attempt to show how “pious” you are. it is the modern day equivalence of the actions of the Pharisees that Jesus condemned. They were all about showing everyone how religious they were, how they observed the “letter” of the law.
And that is what is behind this concept of dropping to your knees during communion. It is all show, and has absolutely nothing at all to do with piety. Piety would be following the rules of the Church quietly and without calling attention to yourself.
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Spirithound
Guest
The rules of the Church allow for receiving Holy Communion while kneeling.
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Irishgal49
Guest
At my parish we stand in 2 paralel lines with the line ending at the first pew/ front row. The priest is about 3-4 steps ahead in the center directly at the steps going to the altar. You have to walk about 3-4 steps to get to him. We altermate which side goes forward with each person bowing, stepping up to the priest and receiving and then receiving the cup to the right or left. No one could fall over anyone this way and we have about 5-7 people who kneel. It’s quick, efficient and you wait at the first pew until the person is finished and then bow and step up. I like it this way, that way you can bow, and then stand or kneel as you prefer. I can’t kneel so I feel this draws less attention to you if you can’t kneel. Those unable to walk very well or in wheelchairs are in the front row and the priest brings the host and cup to them.I would think that tripping and/or falling over the person in front of you when they are kneeling for Communion is due to them walking back to back to back…people need to give each other some space and pay attention. No one at my Church kneels to receive, but they bump into each other while just walking up
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jmcrae
Guest
I receive on the tongue while standing all the time - even with priests who are shorter than me. It has never been an issue. Just make sure to put your tongue all the way out so that he can reach it.
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TimothyH
Guest
It’s not a new Mass. It is a restoration of parts of the Mass to the way it is supposed to be.
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Bezant
Guest
Lol, no, that’s never happened yet. However, I used to be an altar server and the second time I served, after the priest cleans the collection plates and the chalice, my partner tipped over an entire cruette of wine. Oops. 
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James924
Guest
Its a fake argument intended, desperately, to discourage a return to the more reverent practice of receiving the God of the universe on our tongue while kneeling.
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James924
Guest
That’s one of the more funny things I’ve heard on these forums.
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hudson
Guest
Your negative comments have made me want to consider kneeling to receive. From now on when I read your comments, I will take them as a suggestion to do the opposite.
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