Trogos to a Protestant

[PRmerger]

I’ll try…when a Catholic references the scripture that says “this is my body” he will (typically) be very insistent that “is” means “is” and so this (the thing that started out as bread and still appears to be bread) has become the body of Christ (again b/c “is” means “is”)…my post saw the application of that interpretation to two other passages where Jesus used “is”…and it leads to an absurdity.

Jesus said that a disiciple “is” his mother…Therefore, if we apply the “is” means “is” argument (together with transubstantiation which is the “how” of the argument) then we get:

a) when someone becomes a disciple of Jesus the substance of that person ceases to be present and only the accidents of that person remain; and

b) behind the accidents of the disciple the substance of Mary is now present…fully present, that is, for all (substantive purposes) the disciple has become Mary (fully = body, soul and spirit all present)

As to your comment that “the Communion of Saints are present with the disciples on Earth” the response is: That may also be the case, but it is outside of what the verse tells us. The verse tells us that a disciple IS Mary…so perhaps the communion of saints is achieved by everyone becoming Mary.

As you can see, the application of the “is means is” argument leads to an absurdity when it is applied to another occasion where Jesus said something is something else. If an argument leads to an absurdity in another situation then you should question the soundness of that argument…and you should be able to understand why a Protestant would be inclined to reject the argument.

And this is why one needs an outside authority, an extra-Biblical source, to cure this confusion.

Otherwise, we are left with tens of thousands (some say hundreds of thousands, which I am more inclined to believe) of different denominations, each claiming that their interpretation of Scripture is correct. This is, frankly, obscene.

And this is exactly what the Author of chaos and confusion ordered, IMHO.

 

[Cristiano]

Thanks for this (name removed by moderator)ut…regarding your post at #129, I had advised the OPoster that I was happy to explain my views, but really didn’t want to get into another argument on the RBP…As such, if you would like me to explain why I wouldn’t accept your argument (possibly so that you could fine tune it when dealing with other Protestants) I would be happy to do so…if you are looking to engage in an argument on the matter, then I am not really interested …though your tone would make me think that it might even be an enjoyable argument

cheers.

I understand your point and think that you have been given enough information to understand the Catholic belief in the Real Presence and to understand the reasons to support such a belief. Anything else is not in my hands or according to my schedule, but it will follow God’s will and time. In the end faith is defined by our capability of accepting God’s grace and not by human actions. He is the one that will decide the when and the how, not I or the next poster.