Trouble with anti-Catholic book/website

[justasking4]

The Intercession and Communion of Saints.

I think that is fairly easily in evidence.

The problem with your use of Hebrews 12:1 is that you are taking it out of context. It refers back to chapter 11 and 12:1 is an exhortation to live as they did in chapter 11. Its not about communicating with them in any way…

You are the one who is confused on this one----

 

[justasking4]

Church Militant;4217925]
Originally Posted by justasking4
You’re confusing me again. Where in Scripture do we find any dead saint helping out with anyone in this world? Where do any of the apostles teach such a thing that they can hear you and help you?
Church Militant
Well…there’s always the dead guy resurrected when his body hit Elisha’s bones. (2nd Kings 13:21)

Was Elisha himself involved in this? Did the dead man pray to him before he died?

Church Militant
Then there’s the New Testament citation of the Pool of Bethesda in John 5: 1-4.

In this case we have both citations from the Old and New Testament and one of which is from the apostle John and involving Jesus Himself.

Again, in this case we see an angel stirring the waters. It does not look like any OT teaching nor do we see the NT promoting this.

BTW…your always confused…

When it come to Catholicism most people are……sometimes you help sometimes you don’t.View attachment 4166

 

[Church_Militant]

The problem with your use of Hebrews 12:1 is that you are taking it out of context. It refers back to chapter 11 and 12:1 is an exhortation to live as they did in chapter 11. Its not about communicating with them in any way…

You are the one who is confused on this one----

I don’t think so…and you have further added to my case because (contrary to your misinterpretation) it does not enjoin believers to simply “live as they did”, but, as you rightly point out, refer back to the Old Testament saints in chapter 11 as part of that “so great a cloud of witnesses”, which again supports my point that as witnesses, (witnesses being those who see and hear any given series of events), they are indeed aware of us and so can indeed hear our prayers and intercede for us.

I have no confusion at all JA4…I’m basing my beliefs on what the scriptures say here…while you are basing yours on the errant wishful thinking of men.

The communion and intercession of saints has been part of Christianity for 2,000 years. Supported by both scripture and the verifiable writings of the early church. Those who reject this belief are modern men teaching new winds of doctrines.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Again you are assuming that these dead saints can hear your prayers.

But you have no way of knowing if these saints have this capacity to hear you. Its certainly not revealed to us in Scripture

.
Randy Alcorn, a Protestant, seems to disagree with you:

Do people now in heaven know what’s presently happening on earth?

Answered by Randy Alcorn

The answer is yes, at least to some extent:

1. The martyrs in heaven appear to know what is still happening on earth (Rev. 6:9-11).
2. When Babylon is brought down, an angel points to events happening on earth and says, “Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you” (Rev. 18:20). Since he specifically addresses them, the clear implication is that the saints in heaven are watching and listening to what is happening on earth.
3. There is “the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting Hallelujah” and praising God for specific events of judgment that have just taken place on earth (Rev. 19:1-5). Again, the saints in heaven are clearly observing what is happening on earth.
4. When heaven’s saints return with Christ to set up his millennial kingdom (Rev. 19:11-14), it seems strange to think they would have been ignorant of the culmination of human history taking place on earth. The picture of saints in heaven blissfully unaware of what is transpiring on earth, where God and his angels (and they themselves) are about to return for the ultimate battle in the history of the universe, after which Christ will be crowned king, contradicts clear indications in the context. But even apart from such indications, this notion of heavenly ignorance seems ludicrous.
5. When brought back to earth from heaven (in a surprise move done by God when the witch of Endor and Saul wrongly called upon Samuel’s spirit to visit them), Samuel was aware of what Saul had been doing and what he’d failed to do on earth (1 Sam. 28:18). Unless he was specially “briefed” on this, it follows he must have been already aware of it.
6. When called from heaven to the transfiguration on earth, Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus about his death which would soon happen in Jerusalem (Luke 9:31). They seemed fully aware of the context they stepped into, of what was currently transpiring on earth. (And clearly, they would go back to heaven remembering what they’d discussed with their Creator and Savior.)
7. Hebrews 12:1 tells us to “run the race marked out for us,” creating the mental picture of the Greek competitions which were watched intently by throngs of engrossed fans, sitting high up in the ancient stadiums. The “great cloud of witnesses” he speaks of are clearly the saints who’ve gone before us, whose accomplishments (some of them recorded in the previous chapter) on the playing field are now past. The imagery seems to suggest those saints, the spiritual “athletes” of old, are now watching us and cheering us on from the stands of heaven. (The witnesses are said to “surround” us, not merely to have preceded us.)
8. The unfolding drama of redemption, awaiting Christ’s return, is currently happening on earth. Earth is center court, center stage, awaiting the consummation of Christ’s return and the setting up of his kingdom. Logically, this seems a compelling reason to think those in heaven might see what is happening on earth. If in heaven we will be concerned with what God is concerned with, and his focus is on the spiritual battle on earth, why would we not witness his works there?
9. Christ, in heaven, watches closely what transpires on earth, especially in the lives of God’s people (Rev. 2-3). If the Sovereign God’s attentions are on earth, why wouldn’t those of his heavenly subjects be? When a great war is transpiring, is anyone in the home country uninformed and unaware of it? When a great drama is taking place, do those who know the writer, producer, and cast, and have great interest in the outcome, refrain from watching?
10. Angels saw Christ on earth (1 Tim. 3:16). There are clear indications angels know what is happening on earth (Luke 1:26; 1 Cor. 11:10). If angels, why not saints? Don’t the people of God in heaven have as much vested interest in the spiritual events happening on earth as angels do? Wouldn’t the body and bride of Christ in heaven be expected to be intensely interested about the rest of the body and bride of Christ now living on earth?
11. Abraham and Lazarus saw the rich man’s agonies in hell (Luke 16:23-26). If it is possible, at least in some cases, to see hell from heaven, why would people be unable to see earth from heaven?
12. Christ said, “There will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine who do not need to” (Luke 15:7). Similarly, “there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents” (Luke 15:10). Who is doing this rejoicing in heaven, in the presence of angels? Doesn’t it logically include the saints in heaven, who would most appreciate the joy and wonder of human conversion? (If they rejoice over conversions happening on earth, then obviously they must be aware of what is happening on earth.)

Randy Alcorn, Eternal Perspective Ministries,
39085 Pioneer Blvd., Suite 206,
Sandy, OR 97055,
503-668-5200,
www.epm.org, www.randyalcorn.blogspot.com

 

[fbl9]

…

This One we pray to is God and rose from the dead and He Himself promised to answer prayers in His name. No one else can make such claims. Is there any saint from the distant past who promised that after they die they will answer your prayers?..fbl9actually it is God who does the answering, the saints have no power to perform miracles they are performed by God on their intercession…

Again you are assuming that these dead saints can hear your prayers… fbl9 again they are are not dead but alive with and in Christ…

But you have no way of knowing if these saints have this capacity to hear you. Its certainly not revealed to us in Scripture…fbl9,and it is certainly not disproved by scripture either,otherwise you would have shown the scripture i requested earlier…
.

Depends. Even in catholic theology a person is cut off from God by sin. Correct?..fbl9, how do you know the people you have asked to pray for and with you are not cut off from God??

Easily. We know such things are true in this world with our loved ones who may be far away from us. Secondly we don’t really know what the nature of the after life is in regards to this issue…fbl9 when you die your soul(spirit) leaves your body and where does it go? to your reward…

Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?

…fbl9 the ‘church’ aka the body of Christ…

 

[Church_Militant]

Was Elisha himself involved in this? Did the dead man pray to him before he died?

Whose bones were they Ja4? As with all miracles was by God’s power, but the fact remains that Elisha was used of God for it.

Again, in this case we see an angel stirring the waters. It does not look like any OT teaching nor do we see the NT promoting this.

I never said that this was Old Testament, which is obvious from the scripture citation that I gave. Elisha is the OT reference, but this is plainly NT.

You can play deaf, dumb, and blind if you wish Ja4, but the fact that Jesus nor anyone else in the NT condemned the angelic interventions at the pool of Bethesda, and that our Lord saw fit to miraculously heal a man who had been waiting in faith for thirty-eight years (see John 5:5) makes you look willfully obtuse.

When it come to Catholicism most people are……sometimes you help sometimes you don’t.View attachment 4166

:juggle: Well, it’s hard to get through to some of you stiff necked types.

 

[6glargento]

www.confrontingcatholicism.com
It is the part about the Assumption of our Blessed Mother–how no one talked about it for like 300 years. Does not seem possible it could have happened and people not talk about it all the time.
This is something we have to believe though–right??
I am also not so sure about the venerating of images. It seems like early Christians were really opposed to it.
I do not want to leave the Church–I am not going to–but as I become more than a “cafeteria Catholic”–I really want to believe

that website was actually pretty pathetic. its arguments were very very shallow and easy to refute simply by making yourself accustomed to catholic apologetics material. As for venerating images, it was the early church that ratified their usage at the 2nd council of nicea in the 8th century.

 

[Nickkname]

Hello
I am 99.9999999999999999999
convinced about not leaving.
I do love the Church but from what I have read I have been what could be called a Cafeteria Catholic. Not good, I know.
I have a couple of sticking points yet. My brother-in-law sent me an e-book that is putting a lot of doubts in my mind. I have looked for things debunking it but have not found any.
I do not want to post the website; that is against the rules or is it?
I guess I could take PM’s and direct people to it and so forth and then you could let me know?? I have read this site a great deal but the information is a little general. I ahve read books but that information is pretty general too.
I do not want to get in trouble on my first post but would appreciate any help.
Thanks guys!!
Mason

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is an excellent book to read. It’s a presentation of the Church’s teachings. Here’s a link to the Catechism on the Vatican’s official website: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[justasking4]

Church Militant;4218926]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Was Elisha himself involved in this? Did the dead man pray to him before he died?

Church Militant
Whose bones were they Ja4? As with all miracles was by God’s power, but the fact remains that Elisha was used of God for it.

So we agree that Elisha himself was not involved in this incident i.e. not prayed to for help?

Were the bones said to possess some special powers?

justasking4
Again, in this case we see an angel stirring the waters. It does not look like any OT teaching nor do we see the NT promoting this.

Church Militant
I never said that this was Old Testament, which is obvious from the scripture citation that I gave. Elisha is the OT reference, but this is plainly NT.

You can play deaf, dumb, and blind if you wish Ja4, but the fact that Jesus nor anyone else in the NT condemned the angelic interventions at the pool of Bethesda, and that our Lord saw fit to miraculously heal a man who had been waiting in faith for thirty-eight years (see John 5:5) makes you look willfully obtuse.

Do we see this incident ever used as a way to get help in a time of need in the writings of the apostles or in the teachings of Jesus?
Do we see anywhere else in the teachings of Christ or in the letters of the NT any exhortation, teachings etc to depend on angels to help Christians?

Quote:justasking4
When it come to Catholicism most people are……sometimes you help sometimes you don’t.Attachment 4166
Church Militant
Well, it’s hard to get through to some of you stiff necked types.

View attachment 4182

 

[Mason1971]

that website was actually pretty pathetic. its arguments were very very shallow and easy to refute simply by making yourself accustomed to catholic apologetics material. As for venerating images, it was the early church that ratified their usage at the 2nd council of nicea in the 8th century.

I have seen easy to refute sites–this ain’t one of them. I agree that it can be refuted for the most part. 8th century is not that early. Yes it can and is being refuted by some good people sending me links(thank you CM) but do not say it was shallow or pathetic when it isn’t. Its not like I am a moron.

 

[Church_Militant]

I have seen easy to refute sites–this ain’t one of them. I agree that it can be refuted for the most part. 8th century is not that early. Yes it can and is being refuted by some good people sending me links(thank you CM) but do not say it was shallow or pathetic when it isn’t. Its not like I am a moron.

You’re welcome Mason, and as you know I have never asserted that that site is much one way or the other. But then I have seen a LOT of such sites and answered them or quotes from them.

I don’t think it’s one of the better or even more threatening ones, because I have seen and responded to some.

Mason however, is anything but a dummy. He was smart (and knowledgeable!) enough to recognize the errors of some things right off the bat and to come here with the rest.

Not all believers are on the same page or at the same level of apologetic ability even as we are all growing in our faith. For example, look at the wide difference between my friend Ja4 (hoping I can call her?] that) and so many of the other n-Cs that wander through here. Frankly, tough opponent that she(?) is, I wish we met more like her at least in charity.

I suggest that we stick to refuting the allegations made with facts and scriptures and not waste time with rhetorical remarks about the quality of the site or their arguments. If something is refutable, then do so, and let the Holy Spirit do His job for the rest.

 

[RobHom]

Where do the Scriptures say you can communicate with them and they with you?

You keep asking questions…and you keep getting answers that answer your questions…but apparently you aren’t interested in real answers if they don’t agree with your thoughts or ideas.

Here is the complete answer to your question, perhaps if you just clicked the link…after grabbing a sandwich and a drink…and did a little reading…you might actually begin to understand the subject.

newadvent.org/cathen/08070a.htm

 

[hosemonkey]

You keep asking questions…and you keep getting answers that answer your questions…but apparently you aren’t interested in real answers if they don’t agree with your thoughts or ideas.

Here is the complete answer to your question, perhaps if you just clicked the link…after grabbing a sandwich and a drink…and did a little reading…you might actually begin to understand the subject.

Agreed! I’ll put it this way, if you have a problem with praying for the intercession of saints, DON’T DO IT! But then explain to me the countless miracles that have occured by the intercession of our brothers and sisters who are in Heaven. Is it just a “Catholic thing?” No, because those charged with verifying the authenticity of miracles are not all Catholics. In fact many are sceptics who do their best to prove that miracles do not occur. 'Splain that.

 

[RobHom]

Rob–It rips the Infancy Gospel and nails us for using it. This site uses it!
So don’t diss it too much

Sorry if my post was “misunderstood”. The problem with him using it is this, from his site:

Well actually, the only “evidence” of virginal integrity after giving birth is an apocryphal book called the Infancy Gospel of James (also called the Protoevangelium of James), which an anonymous writer penned 125 years or more after Christ. It states that a woman named Salome actually said,* “Unless I thrust in my finger, and search the parts, I will not believe that a virgin has brought forth.”***

Nowhere within this…the three forms of the Infancy Gospel of James as posted at this link: newadvent.org/fathers/0846.htm …do the words in bold appear. Thus he is using a very “circumspect” and gnostic or false version.

When I asked about the catacombs–He said that the catacombs are late 2nd century–gave some quotes from archeology text books that disputes what you read on internet–
and then said no evidence they used them in worship etc etc.

My easy reply to that is: Historical revisionism. Some people will buy into any lie that supports their agenda. He probably got that information from here: pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/catacombs.html

And he certainly did not get any of his “factual” information from a reliable site, such as this one: catacombe.roma.it/index.html which counters his “authorities” and himself greatly. He is merely using whatever he finds fits his needs. Honesty and truth suffer greatly by his lies. You also have to remember that archeologists give “opinions” as to the dating of items. The exact times and dates…aren’t noted in paintings or diggings. There is much speculation. One of the so called experts in the detracting link…the PBS one said that there was very little persecution of Christians… yet written history says otherwise. Go figure?

Not defending–stating what is said. I have to be accurate–I cant live with myself unless I honestly look at it. I disagree with–95 percent of it–its that 5 percent that seems to be playing with my head a little.

Understandable. I have no problem with truth, and his site lacks truth. I can write a treatise that would make your head spin. I could convince you that many factual things in history are but fanciful legends or stories…some of which happened in the last century.

Nights are bad for me and doubts. I was much more sold this morning at mass.

Many of us have had our doubts about many things in life. Listen to your heart…and pray. The answers will come to you. I have seen things in my life that answer many of my questions…and I have prayed and received answers… I have no doubts about my Church, its beliefs or anything at all.

Might have just solved my problem! Stay off the computer at night

Possibly, but at the same time…maybe not. Perhaps not visiting sites that are antagonistic to the Church would be better. I have seen sites that are so disingenuous that they defy belief. Its difficult to understand how some people can swallow the nonsense and falsehoods the sites pander. Stick with reliable sources. The Church is not going to lie to you. What benefit would there be?

Ask yourself this question: If the Catholic Church is so wrong and abhorrent, then why did all of the leaders of all of the major religions/denominations of churches in this country flock to NY to be seen and meet with Pope Benedict during his visit recently?

The answer is quite simple!

 

[notsmart]

Is this debate over intercessory prayer?

It seems like this would not be a huge obstacle really.
Or did I read this wrong?

 

[RobHom]

Is this debate over intercessory prayer?

It seems to be one of the hot talking points.

It seems like this would not be a huge obstacle really.
Or did I read this wrong?

No, you read it right… The problem is that some people are much like chimpanzees…they always seem to have to find a nit to pick. But in reality…its a minor issue in the grander scheme of things, and while some nit-pickers will rant and rave about the Bible, they seem to not understand exactly what the Bible makes clear. They leap on the derailed trolley of “supposition” in that they “suppose”, nay…nay…assert that if it is not clearly announced in the Bible…to their required satisfaction…it does not happen. Yet they in the next breath claim that they can interpret the Bible. Its more about being “right” than reality. Go figure?

 

[eucharisteo]

Mason1971,
Let the facts hold true. I was raised with little or no real faith. I was baptized Catholic when I was a baby but parents divorced shortly after so mom never had faith. I met my wife at age 20 and before we married at age 23 I did all the things to become Catholic. Even though she was raised Catholic we only went on holidays and never understood anything. Christmas 06 we found our home and actually go all the time and are heavily involved. Did I mention we are no longer Catholic…I’m not saying they are wrong I just believe I am right. If you want a free bible study let me know and I’ll send it your way…Just pray about it Christ died for us to be saved not condemned or excommunicated because our marriage didn’t work out, I am still married almost 20 yrs now. God want you to have a relationship with HIM…Try reading Roman 10 focus on verse 9 but read around it, feel it, mean it, give it all to God and see how you come out.
God Bless
Doug

That’s not allowed. This is a form of proselytizing. I have lots of blood on my hands doing this to in my days. I’m still doing penance after years of berating Catholicism thinking I was right. I lament over being so naive, stubborn, fooled, etc. into believing that Catholicism is not the true Church created by Christ and protested by non-Catholic Christians. Unfortuneately for you you are still Catholic like it or not. In order to shake yourself from it You must submit a formal letter to the bishop to free yourself from Catholicism…by rebuking the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ…but then that would make you a heretic by definition. My point is that a poorly formed conscience and lack of applying oneself leads to a loose faith grounded on half truths if any truth exists in it at all. Many on this board could easily blow any scriptural study you have apart at the seems. It’s really very easy. Especially if you’ve studied scripture as long as some of us…and asked the real difficult questions. I spent over 32 years of bible only studying to show thyself [me] approved unto God… So do NOT start trying to recruit Catholics from the Church on this forum. It is against the rules and deeply sinful. Those Catholics will be much better off than you …with what you have done. I’ve been there. We can only hope that invincible ignorance is at play for you and your wife. Unfortunately cafateria Catholics do not practice the faith properly and get many things wrong.

I spent most of my life in fundamentalism after being Catholiic (former seminarian thinking I knew more) and ultimately I found the ancient church fathers by accident online doing research on early Christianity. I was planning on becoming a preacher when the time was right for my family, but I was more interested in ultimately becoming an elder…a bishop once I grew up in age and was recognized for my efforts and biblical knowledge. Now I have returned back to the Church founded by Christ himself - the Catholic Church. I went through RCIA as a sponsor for my born and raised fundamental evangelical wife, daughter of a elder/bishop. I love him like a father even though he proselytized me. We have an enormous Protestant footprint [family] on this earth. Lots of preachers, deacons and elders. We have dug so deep into historical Christianity now that our faith is very strong now and growing all the time. It’s the bible only stuff that can really back you into a corner totally mixed up once you realize basic truths. Now, if anything were to shake Cathoicism, we know that God isn’t Christian at all. So that just aint happening. I’ve been there and done that…literally got the T-Shirsts…lots of them. I was very anti-Catholic and denied I was even part of a Protestant group keeping with their [man made] tradition.

If you actually took the time to study scripture properly it would blow your world apart and you’d come running home to the Church, crying like a baby…like I did. God has been so good to me. He spared me from the insanity of the Protestant world…misery… we lived it. We have the Eucharist…Christ’s real presence. We have all the sacraments. Praise God. I’m lighting a candle for you and finishing a spiritual prayer that I started earlier too. May God have mercy on us all.

Mason. I don’t believe anyone thinks you’re a moron. But you really do need to do more reading. Think about it. Why would anyone go to such deep reaches to refute the Church? Also, keep in mind that the Church started out including the Eastern and Western Church. The Eastern Church is Orthodox that traces its roots directly to the original apostles. JPII called them the other lung of the Church. I wouldn’t put so much time in reading anti-Catholic stuff. It’s simply a waste of time and sinful if it induces doubt. I’ve been there… Eventually I left. but boy did I feel like the fool once it all started to make sense to me. I should never have left. I should have spent the extra years studying the faith in more detail. The fact that you are here means you have so much more at your fingertips than what I did back when I went through doubts. Read the New Advent site provided… read this site too.

PAX

 

[Church_Militant]

Mason. I don’t believe anyone thinks you’re a moron. But you really do need to do more reading. Think about it. Why would anyone go to such deep reaches to refute the Church? Also, keep in mind that the Church started out including the Eastern and Western Church. The Eastern Church is Orthodox that traces its roots directly to the original apostles. JPII called them the other lung of the Church. I wouldn’t put so much time in reading anti-Catholic stuff. It’s simply a waste of time and sinful if it induces doubt. I’ve been there… Eventually I left. but boy did I feel like the fool once it all started to make sense to me. I should never have left. I should have spent the extra years studying the faith in more detail. The fact that you are here means you have so much more at your fingertips than what I did back when I went through doubts. Read the New Advent site provided… read this site too.

PAX

Suggest you ease up off Mason a bit… I think he’s got the message so far and some folks have sort of treated him as a redheaded step son, without really thinking about what he’s trying to say and do here.

Your testimony is well taken, and I can certainly identify. I have one too.

I think that God allowed some of us to go through that time so that we can be instruments of help to others who encounter the things that we have seen first hand.

As for DougFreed…haven’t seen him lately. Hopefully if he returns, it will be without the agenda to proselytize and actually dialog with us and seek the truth wherever it leads him.

BTW, I REALLY like your signature!

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Where do the Scriptures say you can communicate with them and they with you?

RobHom
You keep asking questions…and you keep getting answers that answer your questions…but apparently you aren’t interested in real answers if they don’t agree with your thoughts or ideas.

Here is the complete answer to your question, perhaps if you just clicked the link…after grabbing a sandwich and a drink…and did a little reading…you might actually begin to understand the subject.

newadvent.org/cathen/08070a.htm

I’m familar with what the article you recommend but it falls short of having scripture support. Even though angels exist and have been used by God at times in the past OT that does not mean we are to pray to them. It may sound reasonable but Jesus nor His apostles ever taught any kind of an appeal to an angel or dead saint for help. Although the passage in Revelation 8 appears to support prayers to angels it really doesn’t. Here is the passage from the article you recommended:
"The combination of the prayers both of angels and saints is seen in the vision of St. John: “And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel” (Revelation 8:3-4).
As you can see here there is no direct intercession to an angel.

 

[Mason1971]

Mason. I don’t believe anyone thinks you’re a moron. But you really do need to do more reading. Think about it. Why would anyone go to such deep reaches to refute the Church? Also, keep in mind that the Church started out including the Eastern and Western Church. The Eastern Church is Orthodox that traces its roots directly to the original apostles. JPII called them the other lung of the Church. I wouldn’t put so much time in reading anti-Catholic stuff. It’s simply a waste of time and sinful if it induces doubt. I’ve been there… Eventually I left. but boy did I feel like the fool once it all started to make sense to me. I should never have left. I should have spent the extra years studying the faith in more detail. The fact that you are here means you have so much more at your fingertips than what I did back when I went through doubts. Read the New Advent site provided… read this site too.

PAX

That is what I am doing-reading. You are not the first person to suggest I quit reading this–I received PMs that said the same as well. IF no one ever reads things that discuss other perspectives, then everyone stays the same. There is a Non-Catholic forum on this site.
You cannot have it both ways.
I have also had someone question whether I am REALLY a member of the Church because of some things I have said.
I have parroted some of the sites arguments but just the ones I think resonate some.
The key is SOME.
I do not want this to be about me. I would prefer to just discuss the issues and topics. And for the most part I have had all of them answered.