Trouble with anti-Catholic book/website

[Rightlydivide]

No. The question makes no sense. The entire NT was created 100% out of authoritative Sacred Tradition.

What that tradition does is tell us how to understand the writing that was produced by it. They cannot be separated, or “not found” in one another.

Why would it need to be, since both came from the same Source?

What does that tell you?

Your traditions do not come from the apostles. For example, no one taught about the Assumption of Mary for 400 years. And when they did, they had conflicting details of every substantial detail.
It tells me that despite incredible persecution and death, that God is faithful. Why does it tell you something else?

 

[Roza]

Don’t look at the anti-Catholic sites for instruction, they’re not going to know Catholic teaching well, just their own misconceptions of it. I used to be one… an ex-Catholic gone anti… now I’m back. Was gone almost 20 yrs and every qualm I had about Catholicism was getting disproved to me until finally I realized I never should have left. 20 yrs later I’m trying to learn what I should have caught on to the first time.

The Roman Catholic
Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults Resource Site
That’s all in PowerPoint, something I found last year and going through it myself.

Listen to Fr Corapi on EWTN.

God bless

 

[guanophore]

There was scripture at the time of this writing. It was authoratative and dear person, Timothy’s mother and grandmother did not decide. You see scripture teaches something different than the majority of people on this board. Or many boards for that matter. They KNEW what the scripture was or was Paul wrong for not telling them?

Actually, scripture does not “teach”. Scripture records, but people “teach”.

 

[RobHom]

The history of dissenting groups from 400 onwards is long. What is your overall familiarity prior to beginning the conversation?

Please be so kind as to support this allegation with proofs…linkable verifiable sources, and please make them “secular” and not biased one sided sources.

I know of a couple myself…but lets see if you can come up with them…

 

[Rightlydivide]

Actually, scripture does not “teach”. Scripture records, but people “teach”.

How funny. Straining at a gnat. The verb police!

The Lord teaches us. He teaches us through scripture; that is where I learned!

Psa 86:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

 

[guanophore]

Your traditions do not come from the apostles. For example, no one taught about the Assumption of Mary for 400 years. And when they did, they had conflicting details of every substantial detail.
It tells me that despite incredible persecution and death, that God is faithful. Why does it tell you something else?

You asked for Sacred Tradition, and I pointed out that the entire NT is Sacred Tradition. If you don’t think it came from the Apostles, where did it come from?

Jesus committed His Teaching to His Apostles, breathed upon them, gave them His authority, and told them to “teach all that I have commanded”. Those who have recieved and hold fast to this teaching do not fall into error.

 

[Roza]

In addition to the RCIA site I listed, Early Church Fathers Collection

You can download the collection in HTML Help Format OR you can view it online, it’s freeware, not adware/trial/etc.

In fact, from 2003 until July 2007 I was into the anti-Catholic mode not thinking I was… but you know, I knew ‘something’ was missing. I know now what I was missing was the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Jesus said THIS IS, I’m not arguing with Him anymore saying, “No Jesus, you meant to say this represents…”

God bless

 

[Rightlydivide]

Please be so kind as to support this allegation with proofs…linkable verifiable sources, and please make them “secular” and not biased one sided sources.

I know of a couple myself…but lets see if you can come up with them…

Jan Hus-you guys killed him as you recall. He lived in 1400.
Peter Waldo-you did not kill him. But some of his students. He lived around 1200.

 

[Rightlydivide]

You asked for Sacred Tradition, and I pointed out that the entire NT is Sacred Tradition. If you don’t think it came from the Apostles, where did it come from?

Jesus committed His Teaching to His Apostles, breathed upon them, gave them His authority, and told them to “teach all that I have commanded”. Those who have recieved and hold fast to this teaching do not fall into error.

No. Sacred Tradition is a Catholic term to describe doctrines that are later developing. Semantics can be quite challenging.

 

[guanophore]

How funny. Straining at a gnat. The verb police!

The Lord teaches us. He teaches us through scripture; that is where I learned!

Psa 86:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

I agree that the Lord does teach, but He does so through the teaching authority that He put into place. He never expected scripture to interpret itself for people.

Whenever we read, we are filtering according to our own perceptinos, experiences, and education (or lack thereof). this cannot be helped.

 

[Rightlydivide]

I agree that the Lord does teach, but He does so through the teaching authority that He put into place. He never expected scripture to interpret itself for people.

Whenever we read, we are filtering according to our own perceptinos, experiences, and education (or lack thereof). this cannot be helped.

The last paragraph is something I often say as well. We differ on authority, as usual.

 

[guanophore]

No. Sacred Tradition is a Catholic term to describe doctrines that are later developing. Semantics can be quite challenging.

Sacred Tradtition is part of the Deposit of Faith handed on to us from the Apostles. The development really has more to do with us than with the Teaching. We understand it better over time, or understand it differently.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Sacred Tradtition is part of the Deposit of Faith handed on to us from the Apostles. The development really has more to do with us than with the Teaching. We understand it better over time, or understand it differently.

I have the scripture. You have the scripture. So a Catholic wants to convince me that there are traditions or teachings not recorded in the Bible. This is a true story. 4 years ago now. Brand new believer. So I read the Ante Nicene Fathers. And I find–nothing. All over the place actually on most issues. Did I find the Assumption? Nope.
Did I find the Immaculate Conception? Certainly not. The link actually covers some of that as well and I could link other sites that talk about the ECF as well.
I have been warned on that before and since the OP put that puppy in there I felt free to relink it. No sanctions hopefully.
Venerating images? No. Justyn Martyr especially against that of any kind. And on and on.
Etc etc. I have read the stuff. Suit yourself though.

 

[hays1122]

Don’t look at the anti-Catholic sites for instruction, they’re not going to know Catholic teaching well, just their own misconceptions of it. I used to be one… an ex-Catholic gone anti… now I’m back. Was gone almost 20 yrs and every qualm I had about Catholicism was getting disproved to me until finally I realized I never should have left. 20 yrs later I’m trying to learn what I should have caught on to the first time.

The Roman Catholic
Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults Resource Site
That’s all in PowerPoint, something I found last year and going through it myself.

Listen to Fr Corapi on EWTN.

God bless

I clicked on the site you provided and was really disappointed.
I clicked on “Catholics and Mary”,and didn’t find anything about how Mary appeared to people several times and through out the years. I noticed they listed the Rosary and explained the Rosary. They didn’t give the history of the Rosary. About how Mary herself appeared and gave instructions for Catholics to pray the Rosary. Why is that left out completely?
Akita-1973-Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa in Akita, Japan recieved messages from Mary.
“. . . Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved.”
There are several other cases like this.
Why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Rite of Christian Initiation, teach about this part of Catholic history?
Thank you for helping me understand.

 

[Roza]

One last site and this one was crucial to me before I thought about returning. I stopped bashing all my misconceptions of Catholicism on to Catholics. I haven’t even been through the whole site yet but too many qualms I had were getting disproved on this site;
The Catholic Treasure Chest.

Yes, I was still convinced, never going to be Catholic again when I came across that site… I guess I was wrong. God had other plans.

I’m sorry if learning about your Catholic faith is disappointing… if you’re in the mindset of wanting to be an anti-Catholic then yeah, anything supporting Catholicism would be disappointing. I’ve been there. It’s better to look at what the Catholic Church really teaches instead of anti-Catholic sites that try to rip apart Catholicism.

Jesus said He’d never leave His Church… singular… not a plethora of many different churches. That’s not saying Protestants don’t know Jesus but they’re missing in the fullness of the Church Christ founded.

Last one on Mary and also on Catholic Answers; Immaculate Conception and Assumption

 

[Roza]

Why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Rite of Christian Initiation, teach about this part of Catholic history?
Thank you for helping me understand.

You need to admit that you, like myself either was poorly catechized or didn’t get it the first time around. I’m not trying to attack or insult you at all. What I am saying is I’ve been there, boy, was I ever there. I will pray for you.

God bless

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I clicked on the site you provided and was really disappointed.
I clicked on “Catholics and Mary”,and didn’t find anything about how Mary appeared to people several times and through out the years. I noticed they listed the Rosary and explained the Rosary. They didn’t give the history of the Rosary. About how Mary herself appeared and gave instructions for Catholics to pray the Rosary. Why is that left out completely?
Akita-1973-Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa in Akita, Japan recieved messages from Mary.
“. . . Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved.”
There are several other cases like this.
Why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Rite of Christian Initiation, teach about this part of Catholic history?
Thank you for helping me understand.

The Rosary is a private devotion and Catholics are free to never pray a Rosary and still be a good, devout Catholic. The Rosary itself is not part of Catholic dogma, though the Mysteries certainly are!

If you’re looking for a good resource on the history of the Rosary, you can’t do better than Rosary: Mysteries, Meditations, and the Telling of the Beads by Kevin Orlin Johnson.

 

[hays1122]

You need to admit that you, like myself either was poorly catechized or didn’t get it the first time around. I’m not trying to attack or insult you at all. What I am saying is I’ve been there, boy, was I ever there. I will pray for you.

God bless

Roza, I was asking that question wanting to know why the fact that Mary has appeared to people in real life,is not taught in a class that teaches about the catholic faith.
Could you explain what you mean by “I’ve been there”.
Do you mean,You used to wonder why the fact that Mary has appeared to many is not taught ?
There are so many of these miracles recorded.
I read about how in a place called ,Garabandal-On June 18, 1961, four girls,saw an angle announcing that they would see Mary.
Mary says,“I, your mother, through the intercession of Saint Michael the Archangel, ask you to amend your lives.”
I mean how can that not be considered historical. Mary the Mother of Jesus appears. And she mentions intercession by St. Michael the Archangel.
When I read this I find it very interesting.
And Thank you for your prayer. Can’t have too many people praying for me.

 

[guanophore]

I have the scripture. You have the scripture.

Why? Where did it come from? Did if fall out of the sky?

So a Catholic wants to convince me that there are traditions or teachings not recorded in the Bible. This is a true story. 4 years ago now. Brand new believer. So I read the Ante Nicene Fathers. And I find–nothing.

What does that mean, you found “nothing”? How can you read the fathers, and find “nothing”?

Etc etc. I have read the stuff. Suit yourself though.

It suits me to read with Apostolic glasses, so that I can understand it in the light in which it was written.

 

[guanophore]

I clicked on the site you provided and was really disappointed.

Why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Rite of Christian Initiation, teach about this part of Catholic history?
Thank you for helping me understand.

Welcome to CAF.

RCIA is a crash course designed to prepare people to enter the Church. All that is needed are the basic elements of the Creed. Once people come into the Church, there is plenty of time to learn about Mary, the history of the Rosary, etc.

All the Marian doctrines were derived from who Christ it, and that is the most essential place to start.