Trouble with being vegetarian and Catholic

[VirtusTransitus]

I know what you mean I have tried many times to be vegetarian even vegan but I cave when I start to get tired. I’m currently vego plus allow fish.
I believe what the Church says how it’s not wrong to eat meat but I totally agree with how wrong meat gluttony is. I think it can be very easy to get gluttonous with meat as it has something in it (I have heard) which makes you want more.
I think if people eat meat and animal products it should be a small part of the diet, in fact it is healthier to eat more veggies and fruit and wholemeal grains.
I must say if you eat no meat or even no animal products the truth is (me personally) you feel a lot more energetic and lighter and clear headed. Meat is bad if too much is eaten as it lodges in the intestines and stays there for long time…

But yes, you have to be careful you don’t become over scrupulous about it. Do your best but don’t beat yourself up if you break it a tiny bit sometimes. God loves you.

I think you’d have to eat an enormous amount of meat to have it lodge and remain in the intestine. The bigger issue, I think, is balance. Macro and micro nutrients have to remain pretty balanced to stay healthy, and if you don’t eat meat, you need to get some of these nutrients from supplements because they don’t occur anywhere else.

Man was meant to eat meat. Nothing wrong with choosing to NOT eat meat, but if health is truly the goal, the vegetarian and vegan have to supplement.

I’ll just end with this: very often, health is the afterthought, and vegetarian/vegan diets are part of a political lifestyle rather than a health decision, and these lifestyles CAN be rather humanistic and new age. Not all and not always and everyone is different. But generally, there is *tension *between vegetarian/vegan LIFESTYLE and Christianity.

 

[Christine85]

I hope you find some peace in this thread. I cannot imagine the conflict between your religion and your ethical choices driving your diet.

FWIW: I don’t see even a remote indication that Catholicism is inconsistent with a Vegan diet.

Now, if you’re elevating animal welfare above human welfare, then that’s a different ballgame. But you didn’t hint that this was the case, and said you’d eat meat if it meant feeding your family, so in my book - you’re just good Vegan Catholic!

Pass the beans!

You have contradicted yourself. In this post you say it doesn’t clash with Catholicism and in the next you say there’s tension between Christianity and being vegn.
Also how on earth is it new age?
Also you can live a vegn lifetstyle without supplements I know people who do. Also some religious orders do too. You just have to eat the right things.

 

[VirtusTransitus]

You have contradicted yourself. In this post you say it doesn’t clash with Catholicism and in the next you say there’s tension between Christianity and being vegn.
Also how on earth is it new age?
Also you can live a vegn lifetstyle without supplements I know people who do. Also some religious orders do too. You just have to eat the right things.

Just to clarify, I said the diet wasn’t a contradiction, but there was friction with the lifestyle.

Again - the diet isn’t New Age, but the lifestyle certainly is full of New Age stuff.

Opinions differ on the supplementation. But if you lead an active lifestyle (physical work, athletic hobbies), you have to supplement. I don’t think opinions differ there.

Walk into any Vegan or Vegetarian store and pay attention to literature there. Get to know the clientele. I predict with high certainty you’ll find a paucity of Christians and a plethora of New Agers or athiests about.

There is a diet. There is a lifestyle. One is compatible. The other is certainly not. My only point.

 

[SweetLambs]

Wearing wool and cashmere isn’t even vegan even though obtaining the materials does not involve killing the animals. I am considering making an allowance with these products. Sheep are so cute and strong animal welfare laws protect them against cruelty in Australia, etc. These products are strong materials with qualities others can not match. What bothers me is that in mainstream industry is these animals will be used for food when they age and it is also connected with this lamb meat industry- eating a baby animal. I admire much wool and cashmere clothing but keep thinking over and over about it, even praying in adoration if in should be a patron of wool products. I have the financial means to purchase fool from an Amish farm that treats their sheep very well and have a custom clothier make items for me.

Dave,

There is no reason to be worried about wearing wool. I am a shepherd and an animal science student so I spend my entire life in the livestock industry. I’m definitely not vegatarian/vegan- I enjoy red meat and dairy products- but I fully believe in treating animals as well as possible.

I’d say that sheep are probably one of the “safest” animals to eat and wear if you are worried about animal welfare. I’ll get to that in a second. But most sheep, both here in the US and abroad (i.e. Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are kept on pasture for most of their lives. They are not frequently feedlotted and are not given growth hormones as these can be hazardous to their health. They tend to lead a pretty happy, natural existance. Shearing is painless and swift, and necessary for their health.

The “lamb” that is sold is almost invariably from yearling sheep, and if from Australia, often “tegs”, which are sheep between the ages of one year and two years (usually about 15-18 months old), who have cut their first adult teeth. That, my friend, is not lamb. A lamb is a sheep under one year of age. Have you ever seen an eight-month-old lamb? You would not be able to distinguish it from an adult in most cases. Little cute lambs are rarely used for meat, and I really don’t like it when they are. However, consider the fact that if we did not eat sheep, they would be extinct.

By the way, eight-month-old lambs are sexually mature and quite capable of becoming pregnant- and rams often reach puberty at three or four months of age for many breeds. Some ewe lambs breed as early as five months of age! Most shepherds wait until they are at least seven months, so they lamb when they are a year old.

Farmers are trying to make a living by producing these products. They are raising large numbers of animals in order to attempt to make a profit. In doing so, they cannot keep livestock in natural conditions much of the time. But keep in mind, an unhealthy animal will not breed, will not gain weight, will not produce much milk or wool. A sickly, stressed animal costs a lot of money! So it is in the farmers’ best interest to keep the welfare standards high, or they’d never make it. Do I agree with all aspects of livestock management? No. I’d love to see more small grass-based farms around. But since that isn’t likely to cause the convential system to be overturned, I will do my best as a large animal vet to make sure that animal health and comfort is being maintained. And I think in most cases they are doing as well as they can to do so. It’s not ideal, but we don’t live in a perfect world.

Also bear in mind that many of the practices that seem cruel or unreasonable are actually quite necessary or at least acceptable. Cattle, sheep, and horses (as well as goats and some other species) do far better outside in the winter than kept in a warm barn, which almost invariably results in pneumonia. As long as they have their winter coats, a windbreak, and enough feed, they do just fine and are quite healthy.

Another example: Docking lambs’ tails is important to prevent flystrike- which is when flies lay their eggs on manure-laden flesh and the maggots hatch and eat the lamb pretty much from the inside out. I am certain that the temporary pain of removing part of the tail is far preferable to a miserable death from flystrike.

I’d say that you might be pretty comfortable with the way a steer was raised from pasture plate and humanely slaughtered, in an entirely pasture-based system. Ditto for milk or lamb or wool.

 

[Lochias]

We’ve got teeth that are designed to eat both plant and animal matter. Nothing wrong at all with being vegetarian or vegan, but equally, nothing wrong at all with eating meat. God told Noah it was ok to eat animals after the Flood, and Jesus himself ate mutton and fish.

I don’t either one is living closer to Christ than the other.

 

[Augusta1990]

Just to clarify, I said the diet wasn’t a contradiction, but there was friction with the lifestyle.

Again - the diet isn’t New Age, but the lifestyle certainly is full of New Age stuff.

Opinions differ on the supplementation. But if you lead an active lifestyle (physical work, athletic hobbies), you have to supplement. I don’t think opinions differ there.

Walk into any Vegan or Vegetarian store and pay attention to literature there. Get to know the clientele. I predict with high certainty you’ll find a paucity of Christians and a plethora of New Agers or athiests about.

There is a diet. There is a lifestyle. One is compatible. The other is certainly not. My only point.

I can see what you’re getting at (and I agree with your distaste for those New Agey types), but can you imagine saying that being an intellectual or having an “academic lifestyle” is incompatible with Catholicism just because most academics are secular? It doesn’t quite follow.

A vegetarian/vegan “lifestyle” is fully compatible with being Catholic, IMO.

 

[DaveEucharist]

I know what you mean I have tried many times to be vegetarian even vegan but I cave when I start to get tired. I’m currently vego plus allow fish.
I believe what the Church says how it’s not wrong to eat meat but I totally agree with how wrong meat gluttony is. I think it can be very easy to get gluttonous with meat as it has something in it (I have heard) which makes you want more.
I think if people eat meat and animal products it should be a small part of the diet, in fact it is healthier to eat more veggies and fruit and wholemeal grains.
I must say if you eat no meat or even no animal products the truth is (me personally) you feel a lot more energetic and lighter and clear headed. Meat is bad if too much is eaten as it lodges in the intestines and stays there for long time…

But yes, you have to be careful you don’t become over scrupulous about it. Do your best but don’t beat yourself up if you break it a tiny bit sometimes. God loves you.

Thank you so much your response. Do you feel that your lessened consumption of animal products is informed by your Catholic faith, health, or both? Is it a means to avoid gluttony or occasion towards sin? Is it a way to reduce your use of animals?

There is an event in my area called “wing bowl”. It’s a chicken/buffalo wing eating competition. Such a waste of animals. I think if you choose to eat animals- dont waste them.
As I mentioned earlier- I myself use animals–I perform medical experiments on only rice and mice​

My vegetarian/vegan diet is easy for me because even before the age of 17 I hated the taste of meats (all animal flesh, even water animals) and dairy. I included little bits because it was the norm.

At one point I wanted to hunt- if figured it I was going to eat an animal I should kill it and skin myself. So I killed one deer and didn’t like the taste (gave meat away) or the feelings after hunting. Eventually I just gave up meats and all animal products together (with exceptions of cake if people gave it to me, ect, otherwise I bake my own) and it was easy. As for hunting- I respect those that use it as a source of food— some even restrict their meats to all or almost all that they hunt.

 

[DaveEucharist]

We’ve got teeth that are designed to eat both plant and animal matter. Nothing wrong at all with being vegetarian or vegan, but equally, nothing wrong at all with eating meat. God told Noah it was ok to eat animals after the Flood, and Jesus himself ate mutton and fish.

I don’t either one is living closer to Christ than the other.

Perhaps others or you can help with a question that has always bothered me.
Is eating animals some sort of imperfection God temporarily allowed until the New Heaven and New Earth? According to Genesis 1:29-30.God did not originally give permission to eat animals.If I was in a geographic and/or health situation that required me to use animals (eat, wear slaughter byproducts like leather, etc)–I would. If I hopefully die in a state of grace I would ask Him myself why he allowed humans to kill and use his other creations.

Would God be indifferent to certain treatments of His animals. There is a difference between…

1. Meats from hunted animals that generally lived out natural lives and hunting and killing your own food.
2. Meats from a humane(some have certification) farm that gives animals better lives, feeds them natural diets, doesn’t inject them with growth hormones
3. Large scale factory farm/vertical farming operations that keep chickens in small cages, force them to eat so fat that some die, etc. Dairy farms significantly connected with the veal industry, etc.

So if I chose again to eat animals, would God prefer me to use options 1 or 2? Because I have knowledge of 3, does he hold me bound by that knowledge?

 

[DaveEucharist]

Thank you. Sheep are indeed probably the happiest of all farm animals. I admit wool is a valuable resource and feel much more comfortable using it vs leather (whenever possible). Sheep farming is a rare (and possibly only) awe in which meat is the minor by byproduct as opposed to beef and leather.

---

Dave,

There is no reason to be worried about wearing wool. I am a shepherd and an animal science student so I spend my entire life in the livestock industry. I’m definitely not vegatarian/vegan- I enjoy red meat and dairy products- but I fully believe in treating animals as well as possible.

I’d say that sheep are probably one of the “safest” animals to eat and wear if you are worried about animal welfare. I’ll get to that in a second. But most sheep, both here in the US and abroad (i.e. Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are kept on pasture for most of their lives. They are not frequently feedlotted and are not given growth hormones as these can be hazardous to their health. They tend to lead a pretty happy, natural existance. Shearing is painless and swift, and necessary for their health.

The “lamb” that is sold is almost invariably from yearling sheep, and if from Australia, often “tegs”, which are sheep between the ages of one year and two years (usually about 15-18 months old), who have cut their first adult teeth. That, my friend, is not lamb. A lamb is a sheep under one year of age. Have you ever seen an eight-month-old lamb? You would not be able to distinguish it from an adult in most cases. Little cute lambs are rarely used for meat, and I really don’t like it when they are. However, consider the fact that if we did not eat sheep, they would be extinct.

By the way, eight-month-old lambs are sexually mature and quite capable of becoming pregnant- and rams often reach puberty at three or four months of age for many breeds. Some ewe lambs breed as early as five months of age! Most shepherds wait until they are at least seven months, so they lamb when they are a year old.

Farmers are trying to make a living by producing these products. They are raising large numbers of animals in order to attempt to make a profit. In doing so, they cannot keep livestock in natural conditions much of the time. But keep in mind, an unhealthy animal will not breed, will not gain weight, will not produce much milk or wool. A sickly, stressed animal costs a lot of money! So it is in the farmers’ best interest to keep the welfare standards high, or they’d never make it. Do I agree with all aspects of livestock management? No. I’d love to see more small grass-based farms around. But since that isn’t likely to cause the convential system to be overturned, I will do my best as a large animal vet to make sure that animal health and comfort is being maintained. And I think in most cases they are doing as well as they can to do so. It’s not ideal, but we don’t live in a perfect world.

Also bear in mind that many of the practices that seem cruel or unreasonable are actually quite necessary or at least acceptable. Cattle, sheep, and horses (as well as goats and some other species) do far better outside in the winter than kept in a warm barn, which almost invariably results in pneumonia. As long as they have their winter coats, a windbreak, and enough feed, they do just fine and are quite healthy.

Another example: Docking lambs’ tails is important to prevent flystrike- which is when flies lay their eggs on manure-laden flesh and the maggots hatch and eat the lamb pretty much from the inside out. I am certain that the temporary pain of removing part of the tail is far preferable to a miserable death from flystrike.

I’d say that you might be pretty comfortable with the way a steer was raised from pasture plate and humanely slaughtered, in an entirely pasture-based system. Ditto for milk or lamb or wool.

 

[DaveEucharist]

Thank you so much your response. Do you feel that your lessened consumption of animal products is informed by your Catholic faith, health, or both? Is it a means to avoid gluttony or occasion towards sin? Is it a way to reduce your use of animals?

There is an event in my area called “wing bowl”. It’s a chicken/buffalo wing eating competition. Such a waste of animals. I think if you choose to eat animals- dont waste them.
As I mentioned earlier- I myself use animals–I perform medical experiments on only rats and mice.​

My vegetarian/vegan diet is easy for me because even before the age of 17 I hated the taste of meats (all animal flesh, even water animals) and dairy. I included little bits because it was the norm.

At one point I wanted to hunt- if figured it I was going to eat an animal I should kill it and skin myself. So I killed one deer and didn’t like the taste (gave meat away) or the feelings after hunting. Eventually I just gave up meats and all animal products together (with exceptions of cake if people gave it to me, ect, otherwise I bake my own) and it was easy. As for hunting- I respect those that use it as a source of food— some even restrict their meats to all or almost all that they hunt.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

[BIBLEDRB]Matt 15:11[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[DaveEucharist]

[BIBLEDRB]Matt 15:11[/BIBLEDRB]

Indeed.

However if I ever return to eating animals (rare, as I did not enjoy the taste or thought of it) I would not feel comfortable purchasing meat from a chicken from a factory farm-- especially as an educated consumer. I hope God would rather not have us remain complacent eating eating such products.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Indeed.

However if I ever return to eating animals (rare, as I did not enjoy the taste or thought of it) I would not feel comfortable purchasing meat from a chicken from a factory farm-- especially as an educated consumer. I hope God would rather not have us remain complacent eating eating such products.

Yes. Since we agree it’s not a sin, and since it is a societal norm, then if you want to try to persuade others that’s fine. On the other hand, you don’t owe others an explanation of why you don’t eat meat – and that includes me. I am not going to try to talk you out of it. But I will challenge your allegations about God’s point of view on the matter.

My concern is that you believe that God would only have it the way you do it. For one, that raises the question of why it isn’t a sin. Also, St. Paul says to eat whatever others serve you, in good conscience, based on THEIR beliefs, not yours. Also, if God thought that killing for food was intrinsically wrong, He would not have made any other animals predators. Why would it be more cruel and more displeasing to God for a human to decapitate a chicken, then for a wolf to attack the same chicken – and in fact good chance it will suffer more under a natural predator, because they aren’t concerned with how much their prey suffers. For that matter, why would God create bears and cougars who would tear a human to shreds? And if we can’t answer that, then neither can I assume to state whether He has such preferences for men. Except as revealed in scripture and through the Church, and they both say meat eating is OK. And if God happens to hate the same things you do, when those things don’t match Church teachings, then you have to consider whether you might be creating God in your own image.

1 cor 10:23-33
“Everything is lawful,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is lawful,” but not everything builds up. No one should seek his own advantage, but that of his neighbor. Eat anything sold in the market, without raising questions on grounds of conscience, for “the earth and its fullness are the Lord’s.” If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is placed before you, without raising questions on grounds of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This was offered in sacrifice,” do not eat it on account of the one who called attention to it and on account of conscience; I mean not your own conscience, but the other’s. For why should my freedom be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake thankfully, why am I reviled for that over which I give thanks? So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. Avoid giving offense, whether to Jews or Greeks or the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in every way, not seeking my own benefit but that of the many, that they may be saved.

So basically I’m just saying I think it’s great that you are at peace with what you don’t eat. But I think if you want to say that eating meat is “against your religion,” then it’s your personal religion and not Catholicism. If it is not strictly forbidden but “frowned upon” by God, then He has not demonstrated that to me via His Church.

Alan

 

[DaveEucharist]

Yes. Since we agree it’s not a sin, and since it is a societal norm, then if you want to try to persuade others that’s fine. On the other hand, you don’t owe others an explanation of why you don’t eat meat – and that includes me. I am not going to try to talk you out of it. But I will challenge your allegations about God’s point of view on the matter.

My concern is that you believe that God would only have it the way you do it. For one, that raises the question of why it isn’t a sin. Also, St. Paul says to eat whatever others serve you, in good conscience, based on THEIR beliefs, not yours. Also, if God thought that killing for food was intrinsically wrong, He would not have made any other animals predators. Why would it be more cruel and more displeasing to God for a human to decapitate a chicken, then for a wolf to attack the same chicken – and in fact good chance it will suffer more under a natural predator, because they aren’t concerned with how much their prey suffers. For that matter, why would God create bears and cougars who would tear a human to shreds? And if we can’t answer that, then neither can I assume to state whether He has such preferences for men. Except as revealed in scripture and through the Church, and they both say meat eating is OK. And if God happens to hate the same things you do, when those things don’t match Church teachings, then you have to consider whether you might be creating God in your own image.

1 cor 10:23-33
“Everything is lawful,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is lawful,” but not everything builds up. No one should seek his own advantage, but that of his neighbor. Eat anything sold in the market, without raising questions on grounds of conscience, for “the earth and its fullness are the Lord’s.” If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is placed before you, without raising questions on grounds of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This was offered in sacrifice,” do not eat it on account of the one who called attention to it and on account of conscience; I mean not your own conscience, but the other’s. For why should my freedom be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake thankfully, why am I reviled for that over which I give thanks? So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. Avoid giving offense, whether to Jews or Greeks or the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in every way, not seeking my own benefit but that of the many, that they may be saved.

So basically I’m just saying I think it’s great that you are at peace with what you don’t eat. But I think if you want to say that eating meat is “against your religion,” then it’s your personal religion and not Catholicism. If it is not strictly forbidden but “frowned upon” by God, then He has not demonstrated that to me via His Church.

Alan

Eating animals does not contradict Catholicism. It is not against my Catholic faith but rather against how I decide to live out Catechism 2416-2418 and realization that God created a vegetarian world before the Fall and Flood.

You mentioned that other animals eat each other. True, but that was only after the Fall and Flood. In Genesis 1:29-30 God gave plants as food to both humans and animals. **That is why I wonder if the eating of animals by humans and other animals is a sort of imperfect state God allows. Is it or is it not? ** We have free will and were created in His image. Unlike animals, we can choose to shift paradigms ourselves and avoid eating animals- but we don’t have to.

In the future the lion way way down with the lamb. Am I wrong to interpret that as a future vegetarian Kingdom of God? I want to imitate it as much as possible and cannot be complacent in eating animals if I can live fine without doing so, especially factory farmed animals.

The catechism states that animals “should not suffer or die needlessly”. I have interpreted my own situation as not needing to eat animals or their eggs/milk as food or wear their skins. A large portion of these products come from factory farms which are not pleasant for animals and cause them suffering. I’m just curious- do you know the conditions of which your animal food products were raised and slaughtered in? Does it concern you?

It’s all of these concerns that cause my personal tensions between eating animals and Catholicism. People in my parish (USA) eat meats after Mass. Nothing inherently wrong with that at all! But, do they stop to think that maybe those animals suffered and died needlessly as warned in the Catechism?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

You mentioned that other animals eat each other. True, but that was only after the Fall and Flood. In Genesis 1:29-30 God gave plants as food to both humans and animals. **That is why I wonder if the eating of animals by humans and other animals is a sort of imperfect stage God allows. Is it or is it not? ** We have free will and were created in His image. Unlike animals, we can choose to shift paradigms ourselves and avoid eating animals- but we don’t have to.

In the future the lion way way down with the lamb. Am I wrong to interpret that as a future vegetarian Kingdom of God? I want to imitate it as much as possible and cannot be complacent in eating animals if I can live fine without doing so, especially factory farmed animals.

My first reaction is that you have some good points. My second was that it could be allegorical, and not actually talking about lions and lambs. Either way though, you have to wonder why God would describe a presumed utopia that way. So yeah, I appreciate your point of view. I’m not saying I agree or disagree at this point because I haven’t thought it through from my own reference frame.

The catechism states that animals “should not suffer or die needlessly”. I have interpreted my own situation as not needing to eat animals or their eggs/milk as food or wear their skins. A large portion of these products come from factory farms which are not pleasant for animals and cause them suffering. I’m just curious- do you know the conditions of which your animal food products were raised and slaughtered in? Does it concern you?

I don’t really know. I’ve seen a few “shock” videos on the topic, and I have no experience or knowledge to determine whether those are real, fake, or maybe real but highly unusual and probably illegal.

As far as beef, I do have an idea about that because when I was a teen I worked in a slaughter house for a couple days to help out my best friend’s dad, who was a butcher. Gary and I cleaned the inedible room, which was nasty but that’s why we were there – it ended up clean and even fresh smelling, and I would clean the heads after they removed them and skinned them; they’d hang them on a hook in the wall and I used a hose. And I would get to do some other things, some of which were kinda yucky. It was only a small operation, with maybe a dozen head in a day, but the cattle were treated well and killed in as humane a way as possible, as far as I could tell. Conditions were reasonably sanitary, considering this was almost 40 years ago, and the FDA inspector was very helpful and chipped in with the work, but every step had to go a certain way for him to approve it.

It’s all of these concerns that cause tension between eating animals and Catholicism. People in my parish (USA) eat meats after Mass. Nothing inherently wrong with that at all! But, do they stop to think that maybe those animals suffered and died needlessly as warned in the Catechism?

When they do eat meat after Mass, do they also serve non-meat options so you can participate? For example, at our parish meals they may serve meat but they also have plenty of dishes without meat.

My daughter and SIL don’t eat meat either, but when they are over we make sure there are plenty of options for them, and when they are in control, like at their wedding, they had these veggie dishes that were so awesome I didn’t even miss the meat. That said, a couple of the siblings get pretty upset when they think the others are preaching about their food; so when we are all together those who eat meat do, and nobody raises an issue. (In the past, the issue has been raised and it ended up with crying, so it is one of our very few “essentially banned” topics in the family.)

Alan

 

[DaveEucharist]

My first reaction is that you have some good points. My second was that it could be allegorical, and not actually talking about lions and lambs. Either way though, you have to wonder why God would describe a presumed utopia that way. So yeah, I appreciate your point of view. I’m not saying I agree or disagree at this point because I haven’t thought it through from my own reference frame.

I don’t really know. I’ve seen a few “shock” videos on the topic, and I have no experience or knowledge to determine whether those are real, fake, or maybe real but highly unusual and probably illegal.

As far as beef, I do have an idea about that because when I was a teen I worked in a slaughter house for a couple days to help out my best friend’s dad, who was a butcher. Gary and I cleaned the inedible room, which was nasty but that’s why we were there – it ended up clean and even fresh smelling, and I would clean the heads after they removed them and skinned them; they’d hang them on a hook in the wall and I used a hose. And I would get to do some other things, some of which were kinda yucky. It was only a small operation, with maybe a dozen head in a day, but the cattle were treated well and killed in as humane a way as possible, as far as I could tell. Conditions were reasonably sanitary, considering this was almost 40 years ago, and the FDA inspector was very helpful and chipped in with the work, but every step had to go a certain way for him to approve it.

When they do eat meat after Mass, do they also serve non-meat options so you can participate? For example, at our parish meals they may serve meat but they also have plenty of dishes without meat.

My daughter and SIL don’t eat meat either, but when they are over we make sure there are plenty of options for them, and when they are in control, like at their wedding, they had these veggie dishes that were so awesome I didn’t even miss the meat. That said, a couple of the siblings get pretty upset when they think the others are preaching about their food; so when we are all together those who eat meat do, and nobody raises an issue. (In the past, the issue has been raised and it ended up with crying, so it is one of our very few “essentially banned” topics in the family.)

Alan

Thank you for sharing your experiences in a slaughterhouse. I know then"shock" videos you mention. They are out by such groups as PETA, Mercy for Animals, and the Humane Society, etc. I forced myself to watch as many of these as I could and decided to give up eating animals for good. Each group certainly has its “extremes” but they don’t represent all ethical vegetarian/vegans (as opposed to trendy type “diet” Vegs that only do it for “health” reasons- which doesn’t make since as you can have a steak once a week and still be healthy). Such footage is usually, if not–always, hidden camera footage. This makes capturing what is “normal” difficult. However, common industry practices remain: debeaking chickens at birth, killing all male chicks at birth, taking young calves away from mothers for the veal industry, etc, etc.

I understand their are “humane” or less cruel small family/free range farms out there. I am glad these options exist for animal eaters (flesh, all byproducts, etc) and hope this will eventually lead to an end of factory farming. Even in these environments, chickens can be debeaked, male chicks all killed at birth, etc. I considered eating from sources but eventually decided “why bother?”.

As for non-animal product foods at parish events, I assume there are some. I live in a big/busy city type environment akin to Manhattan in NYC and could be anywhere on any given Sunday. I am registered at a parish but go anywhere I am near and never participate with any parish aside from Mass attendance and donations. This has nothing to do with diet- I just have no interest in fellowship and grew up in fast paced environments/busy with school and work type environments–I don’t even know priest names.

 

[Christine85]

Thank you so much your response. Do you feel that your lessened consumption of animal products is informed by your Catholic faith, health, or both? Is it a means to avoid gluttony or occasion towards sin? Is it a way to reduce your use of animals?

There is an event in my area called “wing bowl”. It’s a chicken/buffalo wing eating competition. Such a waste of animals. I think if you choose to eat animals- dont waste them.
As I mentioned earlier- I myself use animals–I perform medical experiments on only rice and mice​

My vegetarian/vegan diet is easy for me because even before the age of 17 I hated the taste of meats (all animal flesh, even water animals) and dairy. I included little bits because it was the norm.

At one point I wanted to hunt- if figured it I was going to eat an animal I should kill it and skin myself. So I killed one deer and didn’t like the taste (gave meat away) or the feelings after hunting. Eventually I just gave up meats and all animal products together (with exceptions of cake if people gave it to me, ect, otherwise I bake my own) and it was easy. As for hunting- I respect those that use it as a source of food— some even restrict their meats to all or almost all that they hunt.

I do it for health, spiritual reasons and to “try” and be environmental.
I have been scrupulous in the past about it and it became too draining. I just go with what I think God wants at this point for me. My SD supports my choice as he actually said he thinks that meat eating can influence the passions. He is a trained SD and a Priest of 50 years, and I was blown away when he said that as I believe it too.

 

[TuAutem]

It seems you have a pretty good grasp of what constitutes sinful eating, and what doesn’t. And your difficulty is essentially that there is this vast swath of meat-eating that is not officially sinful, but that you find morally objectionable. But, how can it be morally objectionable if it is not a sin?

I for one *do *think (and I am not vegetarian) that in Chirst’s kingdom, all will be vegetarian (“the lion will chew the cud” etc.). And, as you know, Catholic monks are already vegetarian today.

So why, knowing this, am I *not *a vegetarian? Well, if I became a monk I would be. But I feel justified in eating meat for its nutritional benefits (yes, I also know how easily it can be nutritionally harmful if one is not careful). I believe that God justifies this as a valid reason, because God dictated that animals were in the world for the benefit of men. (And Our Lord was not vegetarian.)

If you can be a vegetarian, especially if ti comes to you naturally, then by all means do so. If you lapse into meat-eating, then true, you have nothing to confess about (unless you’ve made a vow). But the choice not to eat meat is a perfectly fine one–just don’t look down on others who have not made this choice. It’s not different than the fact that those who pray the daily rosary have no right to look down on Catholics who don’t. In both cases, you’re taking a good practice, and turning it into a source of blame, when it was never the case that anyone was *obliged *to follow this optional good practice.

 

[DaveEucharist]

It seems you have a pretty good grasp of what constitutes sinful eating, and what doesn’t. And your difficulty is essentially that there is this vast swath of meat-eating that is not officially sinful, but that you find morally objectionable. But, how can it be morally objectionable if it is not a sin?

I for one *do *think (and I am not vegetarian) that in Chirst’s kingdom, all will be vegetarian (“the lion will chew the cud” etc.). And, as you know, Catholic monks are already vegetarian today.

So why, knowing this, am I *not *a vegetarian? Well, if I became a monk I would be. But I feel justified in eating meat for its nutritional benefits (yes, I also know how easily it can be nutritionally harmful if one is not careful). I believe that God justifies this as a valid reason, because God dictated that animals were in the world for the benefit of men. (And Our Lord was not vegetarian.)

If you can be a vegetarian, especially if ti comes to you naturally, then by all means do so. If you lapse into meat-eating, then true, you have nothing to confess about (unless you’ve made a vow). But the choice not to eat meat is a perfectly fine one–just don’t look down on others who have not made this choice. It’s not different than the fact that those who pray the daily rosary have no right to look down on Catholics who don’t. In both cases, you’re taking a good practice, and turning it into a source of blame, when it was never the case that anyone was *obliged *to follow this optional good practice.

Thank you. I have read disturbing comments on this forum- even if they were meant to to be humorous. Comments like “I’m not giving up bacon, oink oink” and "if God didn’t want us to eat animals he wouldn’t have made them out of meat. I think if eat animal products they shouldn’t joke about it. If you want to eat animals- take it seriously- don’t joke about it. When ate meat (whilst trying to enjoy it) I took it seriously enough to hunt myself and look for “humane” sources even if it meant waiting for a farmers market. I just hope more animal product really appreciate that the animals died for them- and sometimes not in happy conditions.​

When I use mice and rats for experiments in my medical profession I do my best to minimize their pain and hasten their deaths should they not survive experiments.I hope God is ok with my work. Fortunately, medical sciences has moved far enough to significant reduce to amount of animal testing and much of it now is with mice and rats.

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As for your interpretation of a future vegetarian kingdom-- that is one of the reasons I do it as much as I can. Of course, this makes me no spiritually better than anyone else. We are called to be stewards of God’​

Vegetarianism, especially dietary veganism may seem extreme to many people. On the other hand, even “humane” slaughter of a beef steer can be interpreted as extreme. And the health consequences from over consumption of meats- those are extreme. Then again, some vegetarians aren’t healthy either’

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[Christine85]

Yes I have seen those disturbing comments too

I think definitely if you eat meat it should be done in respect and thankfulness that it was the life of a creature which is now your food.
I think in this society with all the ways meat is sold so easily in take away and fast food places it’s easy to take it for granted and not even realize it was once a living animal.