trouble with conceiving

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mariayben

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I have a question about infertility and what the Catholic church teaches. i am a mother of 2 and a good friend of mine has been married one year and hasn’t been able to achieve pregnany. her blood was tested and the doc said she looked great and it was time to check her husband. but, how can a mans sperm count (or whatever they check) be checked without him sinning. does this make sense? her husband said that he wouldn’t do that and she is like “that is okay if you aren’t comfortable doing that” but isn’t it wrong anyway? what means can they go to to see where the “problem” lies without stepping out of the bounds of the catholic church?

also, i have another acquaintance that i recently heard from who had ivf and had a baby. if she doesn’t know it was wrong, no sin has been committed right? but how do i tell her so that it isn’t repeated again, without her thinking that i am judging her or saying that her son wasn’t conceived the right way?
 
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mariayben:
…a good friend of mine has been married one year and hasn’t been able to achieve pregnany. her blood was tested and the doc said she looked great and it was time to check her husband. but, how can a mans sperm count (or whatever they check) be checked without him sinning. does this make sense? her husband said that he wouldn’t do that and she is like “that is okay if you aren’t comfortable doing that” but isn’t it wrong anyway? what means can they go to to see where the “problem” lies without stepping out of the bounds of the catholic church?
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I can answer this part. My dh and I went to Dr Hilgers at the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha NE (I think it’s popepaulvi.com). It is VERY orthodox, and was an amazing experience, both spiritually and medically. I think the phone number there is 402-390-6600. Anyway…

The checked my husband by giving us a “hole-y condom”, as we jokingly refer to it. It was a plain condom that looked like it had been punctured w/ a fork while still in the package. This is morally acceptable b/c some of the sperm makes it thru, but enough is retained for analysis. We used this in our hotel room in Omaha and then dashed to the hospital lab w/ the sample in a thermos. (Sorry to be graphic – I just want to be really clear about how this works.)

I would insist on this method if I had to do it again. The infertility specialists should be sensitive to one’s moral boundaries and work within them, esp. when the solution is as easy as this one.

The Pope Paul VI Institute has a moral theologian on staff. If you have any questions about this, you can call there to inquire about how to handle a particular situation.

God bless and we’ll say a prayer for your friend!
~kari
 
The purpose of the act is not contraceptive of for selfish gratification, but with the intent of archieving procreation, there is a difference,
Also suggest to your friend to relax and stop trying so hard…she is more likely to conceive this way… I speak from personal experience…
 
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mariayben:
I have a question about infertility and what the Catholic church teaches. i am a mother of 2 and a good friend of mine has been married one year and hasn’t been able to achieve pregnany. her blood was tested and the doc said she looked great and it was time to check her husband. but, how can a mans sperm count (or whatever they check) be checked without him sinning. does this make sense? her husband said that he wouldn’t do that and she is like “that is okay if you aren’t comfortable doing that” but isn’t it wrong anyway? what means can they go to to see where the “problem” lies without stepping out of the bounds of the catholic church?

also, i have another acquaintance that i recently heard from who had ivf and had a baby. if she doesn’t know it was wrong, no sin has been committed right? but how do i tell her so that it isn’t repeated again, without her thinking that i am judging her or saying that her son wasn’t conceived the right way?
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Read into NFP. It is a way of learning (both husband and wife) about when she is most fertile to conceive. Try on those days. NFP is NOT rythym mehtod.

about your friend and ivf. Yes, it is still sin, though not mortal is she truly didnt know. It would be venial sin, because she didnt know.

For sin to be mortal 3 things must be present:
1 - The act must be wrong.
2 - You must know that it is wrong.
3 - You (freely) do it anyways.

If # 2 is missing then its considered venial sin, she didnt know it was sinful, but it still is.
 
Richard Lamb:
The purpose of the act is not contraceptive of for selfish gratification, but with the intent of archieving procreation, there is a difference,
Also suggest to your friend to relax and stop trying so hard…she is more likely to conceive this way… I speak from personal experience…
Click to expand...
Just wanted to make sure that you are not referring to the act of a husband masturbating in order to obtain sperm for fertility analysis. Despite his good intention, the act itself is immoral and if done intentionally, sinful. It is never morally permissible to do something wrong even if good may come of it. I just wanted to clarify.
 
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mariayben:
also, i have another acquaintance that i recently heard from who had ivf and had a baby. if she doesn’t know it was wrong, no sin has been committed right? but how do i tell her so that it isn’t repeated again, without her thinking that i am judging her or saying that her son wasn’t conceived the right way?
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Just because she does not know she was offending God does not mean He was not offended. However, you are on to something – since she was not aware that this was a serious sin, she is not in the state of mortal sin b/c of doing it.

Is this woman Catholic? If she is, you may have an easier time bringing it up. If it were me, and a friend w/ a successful IVF baby was talking about doing it again, I would probably ask her if she’s willing to discuss it and consider other options. With much prayer and sacrifice on our parts, even the hardest heart can soften in this regard. I would tell my friend that there are other ways of conceiving, and I would have literature on hand to show her. You’ll need to be able to explain what the problem is w/ the IVF method (and my biggest issue is the other 7 babies who remain in the petri dish, frozen and in their own earthly limbo). Does she know that life begins at conception? That there is almost always more than one conception when IVF is done? That other babies are robbed of a chance to grow in the womb?

If she is Catholic, I’d strongly advise that she see a priest about this, too.
 
Richard Lamb:
The purpose of the act is not contraceptive of for selfish gratification, but with the intent of archieving procreation, there is a difference,
Also suggest to your friend to relax and stop trying so hard…she is more likely to conceive this way… I speak from personal experience…
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree on both counts.

#1. The act of masturbation outside of the sexual act and to the point of climax is always sinful, regardless of intention.

#2. People do not fail to achieve pregnancy because they are “trying too hard.” BTDT, and I found it rude, insenstive, and hurtful when people would say that to me. I wish the word “relax” could somehow be totally detached from the infertility experience.

Richard, I am pleased and happy for you that you were able to achieve a pregnancy w/ your wife (or many?) without intervention. That is not the norm, though, and many couples have reason and right to be uptight and worried!

On this topic, I reference Marilyn Shannon’s Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition, an excellent book on the topic. She has many suggestions for couples who struggle w/ infertility.

I would also recommend again Dr. Thomas Hilgers and the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha NE for those struggling w/ carrying a pregnancy to term. The man has hands annointed for healing. And he is faithful to the Church!

Will be praying for your friend!
 
I should have spoken up when a friend was having fertility problems. She didn’t mention she was going to do IVF but I should have seen it coming. By the time I knew, it was too late. And I still kept silent figuring it was too late, so why risk our friendship over it. I totally wimped out. I went to Reconcilliation and that has helped. Anyway, I would advise sending her some info right away.

This is probably another issue but my same friend still cannot have children and can barely stand to come around mine 😦 Its a very touchy situation. She really can’t stand to be around young children. I don’t know what to do. 😦

Stephanie
 
This is probably another issue but my same friend still cannot have children and can barely stand to come around mine 😦 Its a very touchy situation. She really can’t stand to be around young children. I don’t know what to do. 😦

I have been where your friend is…in fact, I still find it hard to be around babies. From my perspective, the best thing you can do is offer to listen to your friend if she would like to talk, or to invite her to lunch just the two of you. These are things that would have made situations with little kids easier for me to handle because I would have known that others were aware of my pain. You can’t fix your friend but you can find a way to love her and care for her during this difficult time. God bless!
 
This is probably another issue but my same friend still cannot have children and can barely stand to come around mine 😦 Its a very touchy situation. She really can’t stand to be around young children. I don’t know what to do. 😦

We too have struggles with infertility for over 9 years now. I also had alot of trouble being around people with children. We adopted two beautiful girls from China- where the need is great. I haven’t seen any posts that suggest adoption so here is one. We went through months of prayer before we decided to adopt, its not for everyone but it is a way for us pro-life people to really show others what life truely means to us. Our adoption agency was wonderful (both times) check them out at:

www.holtintl.org

One of my favorite bumper stickers reads: Adoption NOT abortion

Karen
 
:twocents: The following is a reprint from my post at Searching for saint(s) of mothers-to-be thread. I am trying to spread the word on NFP. A terrific source on families, infertility experiences and adoption is CA’s own Dr Ray Guarendi on Catholic.com radio
see catholic.com/radio/doctor.asp.
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Congratulations! My Patron Saint List for Pregnant women are listed below but I MUST address the NFP issue. Such a shame that your wife is unwilling to explore the benefits of NFP. I have been using it for 2 years (since I got married, I’m 36) and I have many friends who have used it for much longer. Many secular, generally holistic women who use NFP are scared of the harmful, physical long term effects of Birth Control Pills (there are many) on women and disgusted by the supposed “authoritative-all knowing” advertising factory of the profit driven pharmaceutical industry. :mad: Yet these 18-34 year old hippies insist on a full-proof method of planning conception. Also, when done correctly, many NFP systems are conducted daily with BOTH the Husband and the Wife, NFP increases communication between spouses and enhances the Marital Bond.

NFP is not the Rhythm Method

Please take time to look up these websites below. Call (your local diocese NFP director) -tell her you’d like info, your wife is currently not interested in NFP and she’s pregnant.
Please take the initiative and approach your wife, after the birth, with a gentle request… Honey, lets talk about NFP…
One More Soul omsoul.com/
Billing Ovulation Method woomb.org/
Fitch Fertility Center www.nfpcenter.com

Contact me if you wish. My husband will be happy to tell you about our NFP experiences.
Why oh WHY don’t Diocese REQUIRE NFP training during PreCana I’ll never know…. :banghead:

Don’t forget to ask your Priest or Deacon to bless your wife before childbirth (short or long formulary)

Here’s my list of Patron Saints for Pregnant woman. Check out their stories at catholic-forum.com/saints/indexsnt.htm
Mary, Queen of All Saints-Hey if you were giving birth to God….
St. Anne, mother of Mary
St Elizabeth, John the Baptist’s mom
Sarah –old test.-she laughed when she heard she’d be pregnant at 90!
Rachel-old test
St Anthony of Padua
St Colette- Patroness of Childless Couples, Intercessor for Expectant Mothers, Friend of Sick Children
St Margaret the Virgin Martyr

Lastly, ask St Dymphna to intercede on behalf of your expanding family. She is the Patron Saint of Mental Illness.
scborromeo.org/prayers/dymphna.htm
 
Though I may have slapped anyone who brought up the option during my 18 year addiction to EPT tests, drift away from the church, and all consuming frustration…

**You have no idea what God has planned for you. **

Had anyone gotten that simple fact through to me, I might have been able to recieve all the gifts God kept pilling up at my slammed door a few years sooner. No, I don’t know how to approach another sufferer with this information, but its seeds deserve a place in every friends bag.

thegrandmother

My forum name ‘thegrandmother’ I wear with the pride only the infertle could understand. It comes from dragging the illegitimat daughters of the unchurched child of my irregular husbands first marriage, to every parish function possible. There was an occasion when a parish administrator called out accross a crowded room, “let The Grandmother do it” Talk about Divine Providence…
 
mariayben said:
I have a question about infertility and what the Catholic church teaches. i am a mother of 2 and a good friend of mine has been married one year and hasn’t been able to achieve pregnany. her blood was tested and the doc said she looked great and it was time to check her husband. but, how can a mans sperm count (or whatever they check) be checked without him sinning. does this make sense? her husband said that he wouldn’t do that and she is like “that is okay if you aren’t comfortable doing that” but isn’t it wrong anyway? what means can they go to to see where the “problem” lies without stepping out of the bounds of the catholic church?

also, i have another acquaintance that i recently heard from who had ivf and had a baby. if she doesn’t know it was wrong, no sin has been committed right? but how do i tell her so that it isn’t repeated again, without her thinking that i am judging her or saying that her son wasn’t conceived the right way?
Click to expand...
Are you so sure it is a sin? All babies come from God and since God has allowed babies to be conceived through IVF, it cant be a sin.Do not be so quick to advise another unless you are asked.I am 49 and wish to have a baby. If I achieve that, by whatever means, I will consiser it a miracle.I definately would not think it sinful if I conceived by IVF. No ones opinion can discourage or influence me.Ultimately the gift of a baby at my age is up to God, not a church or someones personal opinion.
 
Adriana62 said:
Are you so sure it is a sin? All babies come from God and since God has allowed babies to be conceived through IVF, it cant be a sin.Do not be so quick to advise another unless you are asked.I am 49 and wish to have a baby. If I achieve that, by whatever means, I will consiser it a miracle.I definately would not think it sinful if I conceived by IVF. No ones opinion can discourage or influence me.Ultimately the gift of a baby at my age is up to God, not a church or someones personal opinion.
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Yes, IVF is a sin.

This page will link you to all of the relevant Church documents

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/reproductive-technology/
 
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