Trouble with passage from Ash Wed OT Reading

[Nicholas_II]

“Yet even now, says the LORD, return to me with your whole heart, with fasting, and weeping, and mourning; Rend your hearts, not your garments, and return to the LORD, your God. For gracious and merciful is he, slow to anger, rich in kindness, and relenting in punishment. Perhaps he will again relent and leave behind him a blessing, Offerings and libations for the LORD, your God.”

Im struggling with a couple of aspects of this passage from Ash Weds OT reading. How can God, by relenting, “leave behind him Offerings and libations for the Lord, your God” ?

(Am I missing a prophecy of the mass? Or does it have a more straightforward meaning? )

Is “Perhaps he will relent” an accurate translation modern day understanding of the text?

thanks
Nicholas

 

[LilyM]

“Yet even now, says the LORD, return to me with your whole heart, with fasting, and weeping, and mourning; Rend your hearts, not your garments, and return to the LORD, your God. For gracious and merciful is he, slow to anger, rich in kindness, and relenting in punishment. Perhaps he will again relent and leave behind him a blessing, Offerings and libations for the LORD, your God.”

Im struggling with a couple of aspects of this passage from Ash Weds OT reading. How can God, by relenting, “leave behind him Offerings and libations for the Lord, your God” ?

(Am I missing a prophecy of the mass? Or does it have a more straightforward meaning? )

Is “Perhaps he will relent” an accurate translation modern day understanding of the text?

thanks
Nicholas

Possibly there’s just a comma where we should read a full stop. The phrase ‘perhaps he will again relent and leave behind him a blessing’ of course refers to God.

Then there should be a full stop, and then the line ‘offerings and libations to the Lord, your God’, which really seems to apply to us. I think it is telling us that WE should give the offerings and libations

Of course it would be mind-blowing if it was yet another prophecy of the Mass!

 

[jemfinch]

“Perhaps he will again relent and leave behind him a blessing, Offerings and libations for the LORD, your God.”

Im struggling with a couple of aspects of this passage from Ash Weds OT reading. How can God, by relenting, “leave behind him Offerings and libations for the Lord, your God” ?

(Am I missing a prophecy of the mass? Or does it have a more straightforward meaning? )

I think he’s prophecying the mass. Check it out in the RSV:

“Who knows whether he will not turn and repent, and leave a blessing behind him, a cereal offering and a drink offering for the Lord, your God?”

Jeremy

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

There appears to be a comma where there should be a full stop. The phrase ‘perhaps he will again relent and leave behind him a blessing’ of course refers to God.

Then there should be a full stop, and then the line ‘offerings and libations to the Lord, your God’, which applies to us. It is telling us that WE should give the offerings and libations

You’re right about the full stop – I just checked in my Bible.

 

[LilyM]

You’re right about the full stop – I just checked in my Bible.

D’oh! I was almost believing that there was a prophecy of the Mass in that passage too

 

[Nita]

Something to keep in mind is that the original Hebrew and Greek did not contain punctuation. So there would be interpretation involved when it was later added. That accounts for the differences in the varying translations.

Nita

 

[jemfinch]

Possibly there’s just a comma where we should read a full stop.

I don’t think so.

The phrase ‘perhaps he will again relent and leave behind him a blessing’ of course refers to God.

I think the offerings and libations (cereal offerings and drink offerings) are the blessing left by God.

Then there should be a full stop, and then the line ‘offerings and libations to the Lord, your God’, which really seems to apply to us.

In which case it would be an incomplete sentence. There would be no verb, either explicit or implicit.

I think it is telling us that WE should give the offerings and libations

We are the ones offering them, but that fact that we can offer them is a blessing from God.

Of course it would be mind-blowing if it was yet another prophecy of the Mass!

Then let it be mind-blowing! The New American Standard (a very literal, Protestant) Bible supports the prophecy:

“Who knows whether He will not turn and relent
And leave a blessing behind Him,
Even a grain offering and a drink offering
For the LORD your God?”

Even the NIV, a very obviously Protestant translation, not even a literal one, supports it:

“Who knows? He may turn and have pity
and leave behind a blessing—
grain offerings and drink offerings
for the LORD your God.”

I’d say we’re pretty safe in saying that the blessing that God’s blessing is the Eucharist, and Joel is prophesying that.

Jeremy

 

[Cranch]

You’re right about the full stop – I just checked in my Bible.

Nicholas II’s citation is from the NAB. Here is Joel 2:14 in the Douay-Rheims:Who knoweth but he will return, and forgive, and leave a blessing behind him, sacrifice and libation to the Lord your God?
The RSV and the NASB have something similar: with the D-R they show the verse as a question. They all (including the NAB) use a comma. For what it’s worth, Haydock’s note (Blessing; plentiful crops, so that the usual sacrifices may be performed again, chap. i. 9.) refers this verse back to Joel 1:9:9 Sacrifice and libation is cut off from the house of the Lord: the priests, the Lord’s ministers, have mourned: 10 The country is destroyed, the ground hath mourned: for the corn is wasted, the wine is confounded, the oil hath languished.

“Sacrifice and libation” is the phrase in common and suggests a connection. I definitely like the idea of a prefigurement of the Eucharist in Joel 2:14.