Trouble with "traditionalist" priests

[bpcatholic]

Hello. I have been attending the EF regurarly for serveral months now. I really enjoy the mass itself, however I am starting to have issues with some priests and seminarians who prefer the EF over the NO. I like both forms, by the way. I recently attended a pontifical mass held in a monastery. I noticed how the priests and seminarians huddled around the celebrant (who I know well) before and after mass. Whenever I tried to greet any of the priests or seminarians, they ignored me or looked the other way. Some of them who did look at me gave me a frown. To be honest, I felt like I was some kind of disease. Is this normal behaviour of seminarians and priests who prefer the EF? Has anyone else experienced something similar? I thank you for your advice and prayers!

bpcatholic

 

[sw85]

Hello. I have been attending the EF regurarly for serveral months now. I really enjoy the mass itself, however I am starting to have issues with some priests and seminarians who prefer the EF over the NO. I like both forms, by the way. I recently attended a pontifical mass held in a monastery. I noticed how the priests and seminarians huddled around the celebrant (who I know well) before and after mass. Whenever I tried to greet any of the priests or seminarians, they ignored me or looked the other way. Some of them who did look at me gave me a frown. To be honest, I felt like I was some kind of disease. Is this normal behaviour of seminarians and priests who prefer the EF? Has anyone else experienced something similar? I thank you for your advice and prayers!

bpcatholic

You said this was held at a monastery; was this a diocesan Mass with diocesan priests, or were they perhaps religious?

 

[R_C]

Is this normal behaviour of seminarians and priests who prefer the EF?

No, it is not.

Also celebration of the EF does not imply preference of the EF. Some religious orders and priestly societies celebrate the pre-conciliar liturgies as part of their Church-approved charism, just like diocesan priests celebrate the OF because that’s what they ordinarily do, not necessarily because they prefer it.

Maybe the event had something particular about it, and the clergy found it odd or inconvenient that you tried to approach them. Or maybe the way you approached them they found odd. It could be, especially in a monastery.

Also you don’t know under what rule or directions they are. Maybe they were asked not to interact with the congregation. Some religious are not always at liberty to interact with people all the time.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Hello. I have been attending the EF regurarly for serveral months now. I really enjoy the mass itself, however I am starting to have issues with some priests and seminarians who prefer the EF over the NO. I like both forms, by the way. I recently attended a pontifical mass held in a monastery. I noticed how the priests and seminarians huddled around the celebrant (who I know well) before and after mass. Whenever I tried to greet any of the priests or seminarians, they ignored me or looked the other way. Some of them who did look at me gave me a frown. To be honest, I felt like I was some kind of disease. Is this normal behaviour of seminarians and priests who prefer the EF? Has anyone else experienced something similar? I thank you for your advice and prayers!

bpcatholic

I only have experience with FSSP priests, who are secular, so they might be a bit different than religious priests.

It really depends on the person’s temperament. Our current priest is strongly sanguine and choleric, so he can be really talkaltive and friendly, but sometimes be a wee bit grumpy.

We had another one who was very nice, but very quiet and a bit aloof unless you actually initiated a conversation.

 

[coachdennis]

Unfortunately, “attitude” can be found anywhere.

I’ve lived long enough to encountered priests who have been down to earth and full of life and good humor, some quiet and aloof, and yet God called them all with unique personality quirks in between to carry on his mission and to serve.

I have also lived long enough to encounter priest and seminarians who were so fanatical that when others said they were full of the Holy Spirit I muttered “yeah, feathers and all!”

 

[bpcatholic]

You said this was held at a monastery; was this a diocesan Mass with diocesan priests, or were they perhaps religious?

The celebrant was religious (the abbot), the priests and seminarians were diocesan. Perhaps a few were FSSP, but mostly diocesan. Since the monastery does not have enough monks, the diocesan priests filled the gap, so to speak. The seminarians were in the choir stalls.

No, it is not.

Also celebration of the EF does not imply preference of the EF. Some religious orders and priestly societies celebrate the pre-conciliar liturgies as part of their Church-approved charism, just like diocesan priests celebrate the OF because that’s what they ordinarily do, not necessarily because they prefer it.

Maybe the event had something particular about it, and the clergy found it odd or inconvenient that you tried to approach them. Or maybe the way you approached them they found odd. It could be, especially in a monastery.

Also you don’t know under what rule or directions they are. Maybe they were asked not to interact with the congregation. Some religious are not always at liberty to interact with people all the time.

The monks were open and very friendly. The diocesan priests and seminarians were the ones keeping a distance. They were pretty loud considering they were inside a monastery, but amongst themselves.

I only have experience with FSSP priests, who are secular, so they might be a bit different than religious priests.

It really depends on the person’s temperament. Our current priest is strongly sanguine and choleric, so he can be really talkaltive and friendly, but sometimes be a wee bit grumpy.

We had another one who was very nice, but very quiet and a bit aloof unless you actually initiated a conversation.

The monks were friendly. The priests and seminarians not so.

 

[St_Francis]

If the priest belonged to a comtemplative order, perhaps he is not permitted to interact with people after Mass?

 

[sw85]

The reason I asked about whether they were religious is that religious often don’t have the luxury of being able to interact with people after Mass. Not long ago I attended daily Mass for two weeks at a little rural Priory, just one older Prior and two younger brothers who were studying for ordination. For the two weeks I was there I never spoke a word with the Prior despite the fact that he celebrated Mass and gave me communion every day, and despite the fact that I was the only person there every day for those two weeks, and one of maybe only 2-4 on any given day. The simple reason was that the rules of their order called for a very robust life of prayer. They came in just in time to celebrate Mass, then spent 10 minutes or so in silent prayer, then commenced with Sext (midday prayer). I spoke with one of the younger brothers very briefly when I showed up early for Mass one day and he asked all kinds of questions – evidently my presence had been noticed and they were all very curious about me! They just never had time to ask (and unfortunately I was never able to make Sunday Mass there, where they might actually have had time).

If the seminarians are guests of the abbot they may be expected to obey the rules of the house so to speak. In that case they may be expected to stay fairly close to him to obey his instructions, etc. When attending Mass at a religious house, you have to understand that it’s probably celebrated for different reasons than a diocesan Mass. It’s not celebrated for you, it’s celebrated for them. You might be allowed to attend, of course, but the priority is to support their vocation.

 

[thequeen]

Back in the nineties when I was volunteering at a Catholic retirement home staffed by the Bethlemite Sisters they would have two retreats a year that were silent so during those two times I was not able to converse with the sisters it was also at that time I was answering the phone and other stuff that required speaking but after the retreats were over The superior and me would have a down right good talk and she would give me the hug to beat all hugs.

 

[awsiukiewicz]

I read the entire thread and there were some outstanding comments…I love this website… a fantastic oportunity to meet other devout Catholics who love the Church… I was Blessed to have been able to go on a pilgrimage in 2001, Italy…one of our stops was Monte Casino…THE Benedictine Monastery…as much as I would have loved to interact with one of the Monks…trying to approach this Monk, he actually turned directed himself in the opposite direction…years later…like a few months ago…I was on a long weekend retreat at Our Lady of Clear Creek Monastery in OK…1962 Liturgy…Beautiful experience. spent 4 days with the Monks and have after prayerful thought and years of reading and studying The Rule/St. Benedict…I have come to learn that the Monks are required to avoid conversation…and generally if questioned only briefly respond…idle talk is not enouraged. who knows where your priest friend’s ‘head’ heart was at the time…we tend to think of ‘ourselves’ …my respectful suggestion…and granted I wasn’t ‘there’…is to try not to internalize what have may been a misperception of his/their seemingly less than cordial response to you…Pax

 

[bpcatholic]

I did not have a problem with the monks. The monks were the friendly ones and spoke to me. The others were not. I find it hard to believe that the monks weren’t following the rules, and the visiting priests were. I know in certain instances the priests were actually breaking the rules, like talking very loud in the cloister walk, which isn’t permitted.

 

[OraLabora]

I read the entire thread and there were some outstanding comments…I love this website… a fantastic oportunity to meet other devout Catholics who love the Church… I was Blessed to have been able to go on a pilgrimage in 2001, Italy…one of our stops was Monte Casino…THE Benedictine Monastery…as much as I would have loved to interact with one of the Monks…trying to approach this Monk, he actually turned directed himself in the opposite direction…years later…like a few months ago…I was on a long weekend retreat at Our Lady of Clear Creek Monastery in OK…1962 Liturgy…Beautiful experience. spent 4 days with the Monks and have after prayerful thought and years of reading and studying The Rule/St. Benedict…I have come to learn that the Monks are required to avoid conversation…and generally if questioned only briefly respond…idle talk is not enouraged. who knows where your priest friend’s ‘head’ heart was at the time…we tend to think of ‘ourselves’ …my respectful suggestion…and granted I wasn’t ‘there’…is to try not to internalize what have may been a misperception of his/their seemingly less than cordial response to you…Pax

I’ve been three times to Monte Cassino! Love the place, but the church itself is a little too baroque (and not at all Benedictine simplicity) for my tastes, but I digress. Essentially you’re right, the Rule of St. Benedict requires that monks minimize interaction with guests. However it’s a rule often observed in the breech, than in the letter. As oblate I have conversations with monks all the time; yesterday I was teaching one how to use Excel to help him manage the bookstore.

Another factor is the time of Mass. In some monasteries, grand silence lasts from Compline through Terce (approx. 9 am). If it was an early Mass before Terce, it is possible they were still in grand silence, in which case the only speaking allowed is for the liturgy itself.

Whatever the case, people are human… and imperfect. Even (shock! horror!) monks and priests.

 

[St_Francis]

I did not have a problem with the monks. The monks were the friendly ones and spoke to me. The others were not. I find it hard to believe that the monks weren’t following the rules, and the visiting priests were. I know in certain instances the priests were actually breaking the rules, like talking very loud in the cloister walk, which isn’t permitted.

The thing to do os not to speculate about what others are doing or wht. Priest doesn’t speak to those at Mass? He probably has a good reason. He’s talking loudly in the cloister walk? He may be hard-of-hearing.

Really, what others do is between them and God, and our wondering why is excessive curiousity.

 

[Lormar]

The thing to do os not to speculate about what others are doing or wht. Priest doesn’t speak to those at Mass? He probably has a good reason. He’s talking loudly in the cloister walk? He may be hard-of-hearing.

Really, what others do is between them and God, and our wondering why is excessive curiousity.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I was thinking, perhaps they were giving you a practical lesson on humility.

Being sinners, we should be content with being despised by others and regarded as nothing.

 

[janeway529]

I did not have a problem with the monks. The monks were the friendly ones and spoke to me. The others were not. I find it hard to believe that the monks weren’t following the rules, and the visiting priests were. I know in certain instances the priests were actually breaking the rules, like talking very loud in the cloister walk, which isn’t permitted.

Sounds like a classic case of clericalism to me.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

Clericalism is a terrible problem with both Trad priests and loosey goosey liberal priests.

 

[Thomas_Casey]

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