Troubled Pharmacy Student

[Footprints04]

Hi Everyone,

I’ve taken a job at an independent outpatient retail setting, which is connected to a hospital. While it does have OTC products as well, they do not (thankfully) have condoms or anything of that nature. They DO NOT have Plan B as well. In spite of this, they do dispense different birth control pills, patches, and the NuvaRing. It is hard for us to know for sure what they prescribe it for unless we have access to patient charts (which is a rarity because of HIPAA).

I’m definitely in agreement with the church on this issue, and so far I have just tried to avoid filling them when I can, setting it aside for someone else in the pharmacy to fill when it is necessary. When patients come to pick up their prescriptions however, I do often end up being the person giving the prescription as they pay me (the cashier) even though I was not the one to “fill” it.

So with that long winded explaination, I am trying to figure out if I am going about this the right way. I hate to draw attention to myself by grabbing a busy pharmacist to do the “dirty work” for me…and I worry that I’m just “passing on” the sin by making another do it. What should I do?
Thanks!
~Footprints04:shrug:

 

[rpp]

Yours is **not **a trivial question, but one of great importance. Unlike many of the questions we often see on this forum, this is a serious issue which requires serious thought and reflection.

It is particularly important in these days when many states are rolling back “conscience” clauses and forcing pharmacists to either do what they believe is immoral or leave the profession.

Pharmacists hold an important and critical position in our health care system. They are the final check on doctors, who are all too human, especially when a patient, because of multiple health issues, must see different doctors. On at least two occasions, a pharmacist saved my elderly mother’s life by spotting dangerous drug combinations.

In many cases, we can look at an issue and make a reasonable and simple moral determination. But in this case, there are many issues involved. I think any correct answer is not likely to be simple.

I have a good friend who has been a pharmacist for more than 20 years. And a faithful Catholic for her entire life. I will pass your question on to her and post her answer here.

 

[Footprints04]

Thank you! As I will be facing this issue my entire career, as a practicing pharmacist in a few years, I would like to know how your friend handles these issues. I really appreciate your answer. Thanks and looking forward to hearing from you!

 

[rpp]

Whatever answers you may get (I am still waiting for my friend to respond. It may be tomorrow.) here, I would also like to point you to some resources I found.

The Catholic Health Association of the United States.
chausa.org/PublicHome.htm

A site specializing in medical conscience laws.
Breaking Conscience

An interesting editorial from a surprising source.
reason.com/news/show/34020.html

And some news articles.
catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=20559

These are just food for thought.

 

[rpp]

Okay, my pharmacist friend told me she does not want me to quote her here.

But in summary, she says this is an area of on-going concern and debate with little firm and reliable guidance.

The ethics for doctors is pretty clear. If a doctor has a moral objection to a procedure, like abortion or prescribing oral contraception, the doctor cannot be required to do so. There is no law, for example, that requires an Obstetrician or emergency room doctor to prescribe the “pill” or perform an abortion.

Unfortunately, pharmacists do not have similar protections.

My pharmacist friend will not fill “Plan B” prescriptions but she will fill prescriptions for the pill because it can have other purposes other than intending to to prevent pregnancy. However, she will not ring up a sale for condoms and directs customers to pay for them at the front of the store. But then she is the senior pharmacist at the store where she practices. Despite the fact that the store is part of a national chain she can get away with certain things.

 

[KathleenElsie]

As Christians we need to work hard for laws that protect the conscience of the worker. All things are not equal. We need to allow for the conscience to be taken into consideration. Strange that it is against the law to not sell something in a privately owned store (pharmacy) if the customer is visibly informed of this decision. There are plenty of places that you can get the item you desire without forcing others to go against their conscience.

 

[rwoehmke]

As Christians we need to work hard for laws that protect the conscience of the worker. All things are not equal. We need to allow for the conscience to be taken into consideration. Strange that it is against the law to not sell something in a privately owned store (pharmacy) if the customer is visibly informed of this decision. There are plenty of places that you can get the item you desire without forcing others to go against their conscience.

I would agree whole heartedly with this type of legislation. I have some questions. If one dispenses something like oxyconton would you hesitate to fill the prescription because the user might use it to overdose, or to sell to an addict, or to become addicted? Probably not? You just follow the law.

When it comes to contraceptives the only ones who commit a mortal sin using them are Catholics who know better. Those that don’t as well as most non-Catholics will not understand it as a serious sin and hence do not in fact commit a mortal sin. The matter is there, the decision may be defective, but knowledge is not there. As regards Plan B I personally would have qualms, but on the other hand you are not handing her the pills and a glass of water and telling her, “Down the Hatch.”

When it comes to abortion, what about providing the anesthetics and other meds to doctors who might use them in performing an abortion? Where do you draw the line?

 

[KathleenElsie]

I would agree whole heartedly with this type of legislation. I have some questions. If one dispenses something like oxyconton would you hesitate to fill the prescription because the user might use it to overdose, or to sell to an addict, or to become addicted? Probably not? You just follow the law. Pain medican has legitimate uses. But, if someone that owned a store in a high crime neighborhood wanted to not dispense this product and they posted this then no I would have no problem with it. They had a legitimate fear of keeping such meds in their store.

When it comes to contraceptives the only ones who commit a mortal sin using them are Catholics who know better. IMHO only those that have no newspapers, radio or television in the industrialized nations have not been exposed to the teaching of birth control. So they knowingly know that it is wrong and choose to do it anyway,Those that don’t as well as most non-Catholics will not understand it as a serious sin and hence do not in fact commit a mortal sin. The matter is there, the decision may be defective, but knowledge is not there. As regards Plan B I personally would have qualms, but on the other hand you are not handing her the pills and a glass of water and telling her, “Down the Hatch.”

When it comes to abortion, what about providing the anesthetics and other meds to doctors who might use them in performing an abortion? Where do you draw the line? At the end of my hand. I am responsible (just as you are) of my actions.

 

[rwoehmke]

I have a really tough time accepting that being told or reading that something is wrong is the equivalent of knowing that something is wrong. What a Catholic thinks and believes can be a long long way from what some others think and believe. Otherwise we would all be in the same Church. It all comes back to culpability doesn’t it?

 

[Altesse]

Hi Everyone,

I’ve taken a job at an independent outpatient retail setting, which is connected to a hospital. While it does have OTC products as well, they do not (thankfully) have condoms or anything of that nature. They DO NOT have Plan B as well. In spite of this, they do dispense different birth control pills, patches, and the NuvaRing. It is hard for us to know for sure what they prescribe it for unless we have access to patient charts (which is a rarity because of HIPAA).

I’m definitely in agreement with the church on this issue, and so far I have just tried to avoid filling them when I can, setting it aside for someone else in the pharmacy to fill when it is necessary. When patients come to pick up their prescriptions however, I do often end up being the person giving the prescription as they pay me (the cashier) even though I was not the one to “fill” it.

So with that long winded explaination, I am trying to figure out if I am going about this the right way. I hate to draw attention to myself by grabbing a busy pharmacist to do the “dirty work” for me…and I worry that I’m just “passing on” the sin by making another do it. What should I do?
Thanks!
~Footprints04:shrug:

You need to do your job. Fill the prescriptions, wait on the people. It is not your responsibility to “police” their morality. It is between them and God.

If you have that much trouble with something you will have that much contact with, you should probably rethink your career.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Footprints04- Stick to your values and go for the career you have chosen. I would be proud to go to the pharmacy you worked for.

God Bless

 

[Catholig]

You need to do your job. Fill the prescriptions, wait on the people. It is not your responsibility to “police” their morality. It is between them and God.

If you have that much trouble with something you will have that much contact with, you should probably rethink your career.

I absolutely HATE these types of comments - “if you don’t want to give out Birth Control don’t be a pharmacist”. None of the good he can do matters - the thousands of drugs he is able to dispense (e.g. pain killers, allergy stuff, stuff to combat arthritis, osteoporosis, et al.) doesn’t matter if he finds is morally unconscionable to give people birth control, and emergency “contraceptives”. Maybe before we allow anyone to do any good in the world we should ask “are you willing to dispense birth control”.

Catholig

 

[rpp]

You need to do your job. Fill the prescriptions, wait on the people. It is not your responsibility to “police” their morality. It is between them and God.

If you have that much trouble with something you will have that much contact with, you should probably rethink your career.

These comments are not consistent with Catholic moral teachings.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Jimmy Akin wrote a really good piece on cooperating with evil in the workplace – it’s called “Selling Bad Stuff”…I recommend you check it out; it’s very insightful on this very topic.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Altesse]

I absolutely HATE these types of comments - “if you don’t want to give out Birth Control don’t be a pharmacist”. None of the good he can do matters - the thousands of drugs he is able to dispense (e.g. pain killers, allergy stuff, stuff to combat arthritis, osteoporosis, et al.) doesn’t matter if he finds is morally unconscionable to give people birth control, and emergency “contraceptives”. Maybe before we allow anyone to do any good in the world we should ask “are you willing to dispense birth control”.

Catholig

There are many other drugs with less than honorable uses as well, not just birth control.

What about viagra or another e.d. drug prescribed for unmarried men? Will she question their marital status before filling the prescription?

What about oxycontin, percocet, or other drugs that are frequently abused or sold on the street?

I am just saying is that if she is the only pharmacist on duty and someone brings in a prescription for birth control, is she going to turn away the customer?

The customer does have a legal right to get their prescription filled even if the pharmacist has a moral oppostion to the product being dispensed.

Will the store/pharmacy manager make sure that she is paired with another pharmacist who could fill these prescriptions, or will the customer have to go somewhere else or come back another day?

What about the store owner’s right to conduct business and not lose customers?

I understand her right not to violate her moral standing, but the customer has a right to get their prescription and the store has a right to conduct their business.

No easy answers.

 

[KathleenElsie]

There are many other drugs with less than honorable uses as well, not just birth control. True

What about viagra or another e.d. drug prescribed for unmarried men? This does not murder the unborn. Will she question their marital status before filling the prescription? What does this have to do with the murder of children?

What about oxycontin, percocet, or other drugs that are frequently abused or sold on the street? Abuse of a drug is far different then knowingly being a participant in the murder of a child. If a druggiest KNOWS that the drug being sold is going to be resold on the street it is their duty to report this to the police. This situation is a legal one.

I am just saying is that if she is the only pharmacist on duty and someone brings in a prescription for birth control, is she going to turn away the customer? As long as this is her stated situation (notice posted saying that there is no one available to dispense birth control) and as you said she was the only one then yes even then.

The customer does have a legal right to get their prescription filled (but not the legal right to get every prescription at every pharmacy) even if the pharmacist has a moral opposition to the product being dispensed.

Will the store/pharmacy manager make sure that she is paired with another pharmacist who could fill these prescriptions, or will the customer have to go somewhere else or come back another day? Both are legitimate solutions.

What about the store owner’s right to conduct business and not lose customers? The owner hired the pharmacist. His or her rights stop there.

I understand her right not to violate her moral standing, but the customer has a right to get their prescription (from a store that agrees to sell the product) and the store has a right to conduct their business. (as long as it does not violate the contract signed by both parties)

No easy answers. This is the only statement I agree with. /quote]

 

[brianwalden]

When it comes to contraceptives the only ones who commit a mortal sin using them are Catholics who know better. Those that don’t as well as most non-Catholics will not understand it as a serious sin and hence do not in fact commit a mortal sin. The matter is there, the decision may be defective, but knowledge is not there.

I have a really tough time accepting that being told or reading that something is wrong is the equivalent of knowing that something is wrong. What a Catholic thinks and believes can be a long long way from what some others think and believe. Otherwise we would all be in the same Church. It all comes back to culpability doesn’t it?

Isn’t the immorality of contraception a part of natural law? We all have it written on our consciences regardless of what society or other religious groups say. I agree with you that many people have not been able to properly form their consciences, but the fact that they may not be culpable for their actions doesn’t change the fact that a objectively sinful act has occured. For example, while their souls may not bear the responsibility for the sin, they certainly suffer from the temporal effects from committing immoral acts which harm their human dignity and the dignity of those whom they participate in them with.

 

[Petergee]

The customer does NOT have an absolute right to get whatever he asks for or whatever the doctor prescribes. To assert this is to completely demolish the profession of pharmacy and reduce pharmacists to mere vending machines. ALL pharmacists are (or should be) making moral decisions dozens of times every day about whether to supply things which have been requested/prescribed. In some cases (eg dispensing prescriptions for narcotics to someone whom they know is a drug addict/dealer) it is against the civil law to supply and pharmacists can be de-registered for NOT refusing supply. Also a pharmacy student is more than just a checkout operator. A qualified pharmacist is legally and morally responsible for his/her own professional decisions and the law does NOT excuse a pharmacist from breaking the law simply because he/she was acting under instructions from his/her boss.

To the OP, welcome to the pharmacy profession! We NEED lots of young pharmacists like you who think about the morality of their actions. Please don’t abandon our noble profession to be populated only by the merchants of the Culture of Death!

My advice is that you should summon up your courage and go to your boss and tell him you are morally unable to supply contraceptives and most definitely not abortifacients like “Plan B”. No doubt you know that the once-daily oral “contraceptive” pills also frequently (and unpredictably) “work” through aborting a very young child.

If your boss says that he won’t make arrangements so that you don’t have to supply them (and yes just handing over what someone else has prepared also involves you supplying them) and tells you to either supply them or get fired, and if you need the job and are unable to get another one, I guess you would have to supply them, and just try to minimise your involvement with them as much as possible without directly disobeying your boss.

Good luck! I’ll be praying for you, that one day you’ll own your own pharmacy where you can decide not to stock this stuff.

 

[KathleenElsie]

The customer does NOT have an absolute right to get whatever he asks for or whatever the doctor prescribes. To assert this is to completely demolish the profession of pharmacy and reduce pharmacists to mere vending machines. ALL pharmacists are (or should be) making moral decisions dozens of times every day about whether to supply things which have been requested/prescribed. In some cases (eg dispensing prescriptions for narcotics to someone whom they know is a drug addict/dealer) it is against the civil law to supply and pharmacists can be de-registered for NOT refusing supply. Also a pharmacy student is more than just a checkout operator. A qualified pharmacist is legally and morally responsible for his/her own professional decisions and the law does NOT excuse a pharmacist from breaking the law simply because he/she was acting under instructions from his/her boss.

To the OP, welcome to the pharmacy profession! We NEED lots of young pharmacists like you who think about the morality of their actions. Please don’t abandon our noble profession to be populated only by the merchants of the Culture of Death!

My advice is that you should summon up your courage and go to your boss and tell him you are morally unable to supply contraceptives and most definitely not abortifacients like “Plan B”. No doubt you know that the once-daily oral “contraceptive” pills also frequently (and unpredictably) “work” through aborting a very young child.

If your boss says that he won’t make arrangements so that you don’t have to supply them (and yes just handing over what someone else has prepared also involves you supplying them) and tells you to either supply them or get fired, and if you need the job and are unable to get another one, I guess you would have to supply them, and just try to minimise your involvement with them as much as possible without directly disobeying your boss.

Good luck! I’ll be praying for you, that one day you’ll own your own pharmacy where you can decide not to stock this stuff.

:yup: :hug1:

 

[rpp]

The customer does NOT have an absolute right to get whatever he asks for or whatever the doctor prescribes. To assert this is to completely demolish the profession of pharmacy and reduce pharmacists to mere vending machines. ALL pharmacists are (or should be) making moral decisions dozens of times every day about whether to supply things which have been requested/prescribed. In some cases (eg dispensing prescriptions for narcotics to someone whom they know is a drug addict/dealer) it is against the civil law to supply and pharmacists can be de-registered for NOT refusing supply. Also a pharmacy student is more than just a checkout operator. A qualified pharmacist is legally and morally responsible for his/her own professional decisions and the law does NOT excuse a pharmacist from breaking the law simply because he/she was acting under instructions from his/her boss.

To the OP, welcome to the pharmacy profession! We NEED lots of young pharmacists like you who think about the morality of their actions. Please don’t abandon our noble profession to be populated only by the merchants of the Culture of Death!

My advice is that you should summon up your courage and go to your boss and tell him you are morally unable to supply contraceptives and most definitely not abortifacients like “Plan B”. No doubt you know that the once-daily oral “contraceptive” pills also frequently (and unpredictably) “work” through aborting a very young child.

If your boss says that he won’t make arrangements so that you don’t have to supply them (and yes just handing over what someone else has prepared also involves you supplying them) and tells you to either supply them or get fired, and if you need the job and are unable to get another one, I guess you would have to supply them, and just try to minimise your involvement with them as much as possible without directly disobeying your boss.

Good luck! I’ll be praying for you, that one day you’ll own your own pharmacy where you can decide not to stock this stuff.

:tiphat: :clapping:

Well said!