Troubling wording in Mass

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Dr.Colossus

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One of the prayers our priest used during the Liturgy of the Eucharist had words something to the effect of “this bread and wine, offered for Christ, whom they symbolize…”. I’m not sure of the exact wording, but what bothered me was the “Christ, whom they symbolize” part (I know I have that part right). It looked like the priest was reading from the Lectionary when he said this.

So…

-Is this in the lectionary somewhere or did our priest just make it up?
-If it is in the lectionary, how does it make sense in light of the fact that it doesn’t symbolize Christ, it *is *Christ?

Maybe it has to do with the fact that the gifts weren’t consecrated yet, or maybe it’s an abuse.
 
First, the priest made it up. It is, therefore, not authorized wording. Second, the term “symbol” in Catholic theology can indicate what a thing is. That is, symbol and reality are coincident. However, this is not a term that should be freely tossed about because the average person, not trained in the Scholastic philosophy of Aquinas and in the philosophy of Augustine are likely to think in terms of the plebian usage of the term: something that represents something else, but is not that something else.

Deacon Ed
 
That is definitely liturgical abuse…he made up his own words there. The priest either made it up and memorized it or I have seen a heretical priest put pieces of paper in the Missal to read from so it looks as though he is reading from the Missal itself.

I would ask your priest where he is getting that wording from since it doesn’t sound familiar to you. And then take it from there…you may have to inform your bishop. More than likely he’s changing more words and other things during the Mass but most people wouldn’t be read up enough to know it.

God bless,
Debbie
 
Thanks guys. This is a new priest, from India, I believe. I have heard him say Mass several times, but this was the first time I heard this. I will pay much closer attention next time to see whether or not he adds or changes anything else. I don’t believe he is being intentionally heretical. His homilies have been some of the most direct and orthodox I have heard in recent history (he actually mentioned sin and the need for confession!).
 
I’ve heard the priest say this too, actually at this past Thursday’s Mass. He was reading it and it shocked me that he said “symbolize” intead of “are”. So that wording was just made up?!??
 
Just to give the priest the benefit of the doubt, I checked the wording of the Syro-Malabar liturgy (most Indian priests are actually syro-Malabar with bi-ritual faculties for the Latin Church). There is no such wording in that liturgy either (they use the Anaphora of Adaeus and Maris in their restored liturgy).Deacon Ed
 
Do you have the Syro-Malabar liturgy on hand, or is it online somewhere?
 
Dr. Colossus:
One of the prayers our priest used during the Liturgy of the Eucharist had words something to the effect of “this bread and wine, offered for Christ, whom they symbolize…”. I’m not sure of the exact wording, but what bothered me was the “Christ, whom they symbolize” part (I know I have that part right). It looked like the priest was reading from the Lectionary when he said this.
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JMJ +OBT​

Actually he didn’t make it up, as some who’ve posted here suspect. The prayer you’re referring to was the “Prayer Over the Gifts” from the Mass of the Epiphany of the Lord (celebrated in my diocese in the USA on Jan. 2, 2005). Here is the exact text of the prayer, taken from my copy of the Daily Roman Missal from Scepter Publishers:
Lord,
accept the offerings of your Church,
not gold, frankincense, and myrrh,
but the sacrifice and food they symbolize:
Jesus Christ, who is Lord for ever and ever.
Click to expand...
I’ve been wondering about this too . . . I have three ideas:

(1) this is a poor translation from the Latin.

OR

(2) the words “they symbolize” refer to the gifts in their substance per se prior to the consecration.

OR

(3) the wording of this prayer is meant to remind us of the sacramentality of the Real Presence, as sacraments are sign, symbol and reality, to loosely quote a theologian (an orthodox one, even) whose name I can’t recall,

Now, I’m not inclined to “put any money on” (2) or (3). I think it’s most likely a translation issue combined with something along the lines of (2) or (3).

Any thoughts?

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
Code: 
  	 				Lord,
accept the offerings of your Church,
not gold, frankincense, and myrrh,
but the sacrifice and food they symbolize:
Jesus Christ, who is Lord for ever and ever.
Click to expand...
Good catch.

It is a little ambiguous, isn’t it? I read “they symbolize” as meaning that

a) the offerings of money and so forth symbolize the sacrifice and food.

or

b) the gold, frankincense, and myrrh symbolize the sacrifice and food.

However, I don’t have a missal floating around, so my guesses do a poor job taking the context into account as far as it’s placement within the mass.
 
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