Trudging the road of RCIA

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I think I can shed light on why some parishes put everybody through the same “program” with some insights gained by hobmobbing with my fellow RCIA ladies. People who have been doing this for a long time apparently have found that those who enter the Church through some abbreviated process, even though they have very good knowledge of doctrine and scripture, often become inactive or leave entirely in a few years.

The reason most often given is that they did not feel part of the parish, did not feel welcomed, especially as compared to their former denominations or congregations. I guess there is a strong sentiment, especially among the "RCIA is experiential) folks that equally important with the catechetical component is the community-building component, and integration into parish life. Evidently they feel participation in RCIA for everyone is supposed to make this happen.

This is why Sponsors who are well connected with the parish are so vital. That Sponsors realize that it is a life long committment to their Candidate or Catechumen. Helping them get incorporated into the parish family and community is very important. Our Mystagogy goes on for 12 months after Easter on an organized basis. Sponsors, Catechumens and Candidates meet monthly or more if they want for a more social event but there is also ongoing formation to some extent. This is lead by them not the RCIA team. We however have been invited and have a standing invitation.

 

[Andruschak]

Under the RCIA model, when correctly implemented, Andrushak (as a life-long practicing Anglican) should have simply been asked to assemble his baptismal paperwork, completed a series of three interviews, and been brought into the Church through a Profession of Faith.

There is no good reason for a life-long Anglican to do “breaking the Word” - he’s been reading the Bible all his life, already, and thank you, but he does know how to find the readings - in fact, he probably has most of them memorized already.

Um, slight correction. I was baptised Church Of England, but Confirmed as a teenager in the Lutheran Church. In fact, I gave serious thought to becoming a Lutheran Minister. Finances prevented this from becoming a reality after my Father died when I was in high school.

At age 62, I think I am way above the age limit to be a Priest or Deacon

I do have most of the Protestant Bible memorized. However, it seems that Catholics have all those books that Luther ranted about Got to memorize those next.

 

[Andruschak]

look at the good side, with any luck, by this time next year Andy will be teaching RCIA at his parish and things will start looking up.

No, Harry Andruschak has already made it quite clear to the RCIA team that he will be thrilled to be an RCIA Sponser next year…but only for Candidates who do not need to go through the whole RCIA process with Catechumans. For Candidates who can just as well be Confirmed well outside the TRIDUUM. They may accept this offer, or reject it.

If they reject it, I’ll still have my AA 12th step work.

 

[Andruschak]

This is why Sponsors who are well connected with the parish are so vital. That Sponsors realize that it is a life long committment to their Candidate or Catechumen. Helping them get incorporated into the parish family and community is very important. Our Mystagogy goes on for 12 months after Easter on an organized basis. Sponsors, Catechumens and Candidates meet monthly or more if they want for a more social event but there is also ongoing formation to some extent. This is lead by them not the RCIA team. We however have been invited and have a standing invitation.

Hmmmmm…none of the 13 RCIA classes I have attended to date has had anything like “incorporation into the parish family and community”.

I note that we do have classes listed as “Mystagogy” on 22 and 29 April. I assume that 15 April, Divine Mercy Sunday, was not listed because the former Catechumans would probably still be recovering from The Triduum. As a 62 year old Candidate who has been around the block more then a few times, I have a reasonable chance of just taking it in stride.

HOWEVER, since I have long been reciting The Divine Mercy Chaplet on a daily basis, it will be interesting to see what happens on that Sunday.

May 6, 20, and 27 are also “Mystagogy”. May 13 is not as it is Mothers’ Day. And that is the end of the RCIA Class schedule, probably until next September.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

This is why Sponsors who are well connected with the parish are so vital. That Sponsors realize that it is a life long committment to their Candidate or Catechumen. Helping them get incorporated into the parish family and community is very important. Our Mystagogy goes on for 12 months after Easter on an organized basis. Sponsors, Catechumens and Candidates meet monthly or more if they want for a more social event but there is also ongoing formation to some extent. This is lead by them not the RCIA team. We however have been invited and have a standing invitation.

really in just one of those 3 interviews he developed a life long relationship? I guess another interviews was with an administrator to evaluate the sacrament status and then one interview with a priest? I do not see that working here, I and half dozen others spend hours on phones and email trying to coordinate, maybe we are doing something wrong.

 

[jmcrae]

Under the RCIA model, when correctly implemented, Andrushak (as a life-long practicing Anglican) should have simply been asked to assemble his baptismal paperwork, completed a series of three interviews, and been brought into the Church through a Profession of Faith, along with First Confession and First Holy Communion And the Sacrament of Confirmation completing the Sacraments of Initiation.

You’d think - but in my Diocese, no - Anglicans are thought to be “almost-Catholics” and are merely required to make a Profession of Faith. Their Anglican Confirmation is read as being “valid,” for “pastoral reasons.”

Other Protestants would do all of your section in blue, but not Anglicans.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

really in just one of those 3 interviews he developed a life long relationship? I guess another interviews was with an administrator to evaluate the sacrament status and then one interview with a priest? I do not see that working here, I and half dozen others spend hours on phones and email trying to coordinate, maybe we are doing something wrong.

A Sponsor should be the person that the Inquirer brings with them or wants to, or if they have none, one that is assigned in the first weeks of the Inquiry stage.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

You’d think - but in my Diocese, no - Anglicans are thought to be “almost-Catholics” and are merely required to make a Profession of Faith. Their Anglican Confirmation is read as being “valid,” for “pastoral reasons.”

Other Protestants would do all of your section in blue, but not Anglicans.

That is not possible! Rome has determined that Anglican Confirmations are NOT valid. Their Sacraments of Initiation are NOT complete. I cannot believe that this is diocese wide? I would contact the Archdiocese and go from there.

 

[sconea]

Nothing new to report. As a Candidate I am still lumped in with the Catecumans. We attend the Sunday 11 AM mass together, and are dismissed after the Homily. We go to the classroom to discuss the readings. The catechism is rarely mentioned.

None of this matters to me because I do have my daily dose of catechismclass.com with daily scriptures, daily catechism, and other articles related to faith formation for adults.

Just some old time Catholic advice…“Offer it up”…

 

[DarkNight_FL]

Unfortunately, Andruchak isn’t in “the model that has been deployed” - he’s in a “make it up as you go along” one that’s being run by an untrained catechist who can’t tell the difference between a Catechumen and a Candidate, nor a nearly-fully catechized Christian and an uncatechized person.

The difference between wether or not someone is a candidate and still has to go through the full RCIA program appears to be at the discretion of the person doing the interview. I believe Harry may have gotten away from the Church for a period of years if I recall my threads correctly. I think the clause says baptized using a Trinitarian formula and living as a Christian. It is still left open to interpretation as to further instruction.

There is no good reason for a life-long Anglican to do “breaking the Word” - he’s been reading the Bible all his life, already, and thank you, but he does know how to find the readings - in fact, he probably has most of them memorized already.

Knowing the readings and memorizing the readings isn’t what breaking the word is about. It’s about living the readings and the scriptural spiritual model. I memorized math, I memorized code, I memorized history (I tried to learn something from that), scripture is different according to the church. If knowing the readings from memory and being able to find them (I’m not sure why that’s applicable, it’s a matrix a child can use) is the test, then it misses the key points of the Catholic church, being Catholic and finally, the Catechism that everyone here seems to hold so dear. This is the big difference between pre and post Vatican II. Pre Vatican II it may have been about memorizing bible verses, now it’s about wisdom, knowledge, interpretation, application, imagery, metaphor, art, philosophy and Divine Indwelling. it’s about living the scripture and the Mass.

In a real RCIA; that is, one that follows the norms and guidelines of RCIA, this kind of thing wouldn’t happen. - he’s in a “make it up as you go along” one that’s being run by an untrained catechist

Maybe Harry is in a “real” RCIA program, his RCIA director doesn’t have the ability to defend himself here. His knowledge and decision making is based on first hand, personal interaction.

look at the good side, with any luck, by this time next year Andy will be teaching RCIA at his parish and things will start looking up.

Annie, you seemed to base most of your responses on spirituality, I was surprised to see this answer. However, I can see that I didn’t need to concern myself.

No, Harry Andruschak has already made it quite clear to the RCIA team that he will be thrilled to be an RCIA Sponser next year…but only for Candidates who do not need to go through the whole RCIA process with Catechumans. For Candidates who can just as well be Confirmed well outside the TRIDUUM. They may accept this offer, or reject it.

Let’s see, how does the saying go, Br. Rich should be familiar with this one; “Preach the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.”

Actions speak louder than words, especially where it comes to understanding the very simple doctrines of the Church. Who would need a sponsor more to guide them on their journey? Especially from someone who’s “been reading the bible all his life” (thank you). You’ve made my point for me.

If they reject it, I’ll still have my AA 12th step work.

Harry, God bless you for conquering alcoholism, I truly mean that. My Spiritual director is a recovering alcoholic, but he carries his chip in his pocket, not on his shoulder.

Peace and All Good

 

[hoosiertoo]

Wow.

The more time I spend on this forum, the more I wonder what church I joined.

Amazing.

 

[Brian_C]

Harry, sympathize, I do, but I agree with going through the process, even after everything in this thread. As for integrating oneself into the community, I agree with puzzleannie. My family would be one more anonymous family in a large suburban parish. As it happened though, we went through the process and developed a great relationship with many fellow candidates/catechumens, the RCIA team members (which ended up joining for this year), and the priests. All the while I was learning in class about “How to pray” I was at home reading things like *City Of God, *Belloc,Howard, andvarious Ratzinger works.

It’ll happen. People will recognize your knowledge and commitment. Don’t let your impatience with the process drive a wedge between you and your new parish.
No sooner had I come into the Church at Easter than the deacon in charge of adult faith formation asked me to attend the upcoming diocesan catechist conference and training. I got on the RCIA team and was able right off to get the order of some of the teachings changed so that we could get to some of the “red meat” earlier on. It’s a start!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Baptism separates Candidates and Catechumens not RCIA directors

The Magisterium & Pope pass some authority to the Bishop, the Bishop to the Priest, The Priest to the DRE, The DRE to the RCIA Director. Any upper layer can at any time over ride or revoke that authority

My whole problem with this is a catholic spends so many hours in various events mass, confessional, works of mercy that the time in RCIA should be less that 1%. If someone’s time in RCIA is 10% of their Catholism that is really sad!

 

[jmcrae]

Knowing the readings and memorizing the readings isn’t what breaking the word is about. It’s about living the readings and the scriptural spiritual model.

Yes, but Dismissal and Breaking the Word are supposed to be only for the Catechumens (people who’ve never seen a Bible before).

Baptized candidates are supposed to stay in for the whole Mass (they make a spiritual communion during the Eucharist), and then attend structured Catechism classes at a different time during the week.

 

[jmcrae]

Baptism separates Candidates and Catechumens not RCIA directors

The Magisterium & Pope pass some authority to the Bishop, the Bishop to the Priest, The Priest to the DRE, The DRE to the RCIA Director. Any upper layer can at any time over ride or revoke that authority

My whole problem with this is a catholic spends so many hours in various events mass, confessional, works of mercy that the time in RCIA should be less that 1%. If someone’s time in RCIA is 10% of their Catholism that is really sad!

But at the same time, people should not be made to feel as though they are wasting even that 1% of time. If it’s about community building, then we need to make that really clear, or else people just won’t show up for the meetings.

And people do need to be streamed appropriately - we can’t treat Catechumens as though they were candidates, and we can’t treat candidates as though they were Catechumens.

 

[Andruschak]

Yes, but Dismissal and Breaking the Word are supposed to be only for the Catechumens (people who’ve never seen a Bible before).

Baptized candidates are supposed to stay in for the whole Mass (they make a spiritual communion during the Eucharist), and then attend structured Catechism classes at a different time during the week.

Sigh…that may be the theory, but is there anywhere in the USA that it is actually done that way? Certainly not any Churches in my area.:nope:

Fortununately, I get a daily dose of authentic catechism from the RCIA program of catechismclass.com

 

[Texas_Roofer]

My experience is RCIA s not a waste of time even for people who have been Catholic for years. We are supposed to treat everybody equal. Today with current TV and internet people can learn more in a few months than they would have in a 2 year study in 1950-1960. And before that literacy was the problem. Add to that the Catholic study was aimed at children. If they watch “Walking the Bible” and some of the History channel shows, plus some CNN Presents. Then review the EWTN Q&A with a few knowledgeable Catholics they will know more than a conventional program would teach . If they simple read the bible and the catechism it will not be retained. That is why we push them to talk in RCIA, if we answer their question they remember.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

You may want to look up the history of the Dismissal process. Though the historical reason is no longer needed the process serves a learning boost to catechumens who otherwise would be sitting in the pews watching. Unless you desire to attend another Mass session or are embarrassed by the process, the dismissal actually should be more useful. The real issue was if a ccd graduate was missing communion to attend dismissal. The Eucharist (received in communion) is the new covenant with god and must be kept. Unless you have received first communion (as a ccd graduate would) it simply does not matter. By the way(btw) you can purchase a Year “A”,“B”, and “C” book which the Priest and Deacon use to prepare the Homilies. Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the book, however we can find the name if you need. That book teaches about the readings.

 

[DarkNight_FL]

You may want to look up the history of the Dismissal process. Though the historical reason is no longer needed the process serves a learning boost to catechumens who otherwise would be sitting in the pews watching. Unless you desire to attend another Mass session or are embarrassed by the process, the dismissal actually should be more useful. The real issue was if a ccd graduate was missing communion to attend dismissal. The Eucharist (received in communion) is the new covenant with god and must be kept. Unless you have received first communion (as a ccd graduate would) it simply does not matter. By the way(btw) you can purchase a Year “A”,“B”, and “C” book which the Priest and Deacon use to prepare the Homilies. Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the book, however we can find the name if you need. That book teaches about the readings.

You can get ‘At Home With The Word’ or any of the ‘Fireside’ Catholic Edition Study Bibles have the three year cycle of readings. AHWTW is usually handed out free in the Narthex at our Church.

 

[Andruschak]

If they simple read the bible and the catechism it will not be retained. That is why we push them to talk in RCIA, if we answer their question they remember.

“They”? Excuse me, but am I a “they”?

I have had no trouble whatsoever in retaining what I have read of the catechism.

I’ve retained most of my Bible knowledge acquired BEFORE entering RCIA.

I do have to read and understand those books that Luther removed in forming the Protestant Bible, yes. :yup: