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masscup
Guest
Is CAF the Catholic Answers Forum or the Catholic Argument Forum? I can’t believe how many non-Catholic, anti-Christian sentiments there are on this board. Am I off base?
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BlestOne
Guest
Hi Masscup…
In answer to your question, this board is full of people and their opinions… and some of them are wrong. All of us are wrong at some point… we are human and therefore fallible. The best we can do is gently point out their error and pray.
In answer to your question, this board is full of people and their opinions… and some of them are wrong. All of us are wrong at some point… we are human and therefore fallible. The best we can do is gently point out their error and pray.
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edwest2
Guest
Atheists and people from other religions come here. The problem is the total anonymity. I am a moderator on another (non-religious) forum and had the opportunity to meet one of our more, uh, rambunctious, posters. He apologized to me profusely for acting like a jerk (which I was not expecting) on the forum. Some people don’t know how to behave.
God bless,
Ed
God bless,
Ed
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1ke
Guest
Such is the nature of internet message boards.
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Brother_John
Guest
It has been my experience, that the most fierce arguing comes from within the Catholic community itself here at CAF.
The posts from non-Catholics rarely surprise me, the usual stuff.
But I never would have believed all the “traditional” propaganda that I read here. It’s like we have a church within a church that I never new existed until I came to CAF.
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CHRISTISKING
Guest
Hi
I thought I would chime in here since I’m not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Religion is a very personal thing. It has caused many wars and caused people to do many things they would not normally do. I have seen many Catholics tag Protestants (Which is a term I hate because I’m NOT protesting Christs Church.) as unsaved, or not having the fullness of truth, no salvation outside the Catholic church, or that God might let us into Heaven because we are ignorant to the truth, etc,etc, etc. I could go on but I think that you get the point. I know one thing, if I said the same thing about your church I would surly be reprimanded or even given the boot. You need to ask yourself this question, "If I said the same things about you as I mentioned earlier, wouldn’t you have the same reaction?)
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edwest2
Guest
Hello Brother John,
An example of the propaganda you speak of?
Thanks,
Ed
An example of the propaganda you speak of?
Thanks,
Ed
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goofyjim
Guest
If the judging were to end it would truly be a Catholic forum. Too many Catholics judge others whereas Jesus is the only judge.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Both
Is this your first forum experience?
Your profile says you live in the deep South, and if that is true you probably have faced some of that stuff before.
Where would you prefer to find discussions and debates about issues that unbelievers and n-Cs/a-Cs bring up (all the time)? On their own forums where the moderation is not only biased but actually participate in the attacks and penalize Catholics who attempt to respond with facts? Or would you prefer that they just publish their propaganda in editorial pages of local newspapers and that Catholics simply sit by while our most holy faith is trashed? Or worse yet…when they bash the daylights out of the faith to our kids or give them a-C literature that they are ill prepared to respond to?
I, for one, am very deeply grateful for Karl Keating and his ministry of Catholic Answers and these forums, where there is much freedom of discussion and debate so long as it remains charitable and respectful. The rules and banned topics here are clear and concise and administered about as even handedly as possible. To me, this is a place to come and find and pass on facts that refute the kind of stuff you are talking about. I cannot imagine a better place for that to happen and a better handled environment than what we have here at CAF.
Since I’m not 100% sure exactly what point you are trying to make I’ll withhold my opinion on that.
As for those who seem distressed at those Catholic on Catholic arguments that sometimes occur here…
So long as they deal with the issues with respect and charity I see it as a function of the spiritual works of mercy, which are,
Code:
* To instruct the ignorant;
* To counsel the doubtful;
* To admonish sinners;
* To bear wrongs patiently;
* To forgive offenses willingly;
* To comfort the afflicted;
* To pray for the living and the dead.
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masscup
Guest
Truth of the matter is we’re talking apples and oranges here. Although you make some valid points, they really don’t have anything to do with my original question. I feel that we fight the a-C battle every day in all aspects of our lives. So does that mean that the only time we can have fellowship or solace is when we’re alone or in our own physical church? Why can’t I come to a Catholic forum and not have non-C bashing constantly?BothIs this your first forum experience?
Not by a long shot. However, I expect arguing in other forums, i.e. hobby, political, military, etc. But I didn’t come to a Catholic forum to argue. I came share our faith, learn and reinforce. Not to argue with trolls and baiters.
Your profile says you live in the deep South, and if that is true you probably have faced some of that stuff before.
Again it’s not facing any confrontation. It’s the principle of time and place.
Where would you prefer to find discussions and debates about issues that unbelievers and n-Cs/a-Cs bring up (all the time)?
I don’t care about the unbelievers that want to argue. If one is asking a question of faith, that is fair. If that question is answered and the poster turns around and argues that answer to be wrong, then we’re no longer catering to those seeking knowledge. We’ve now turned into defenders of the faith. I don’t appreciate having to defend my faith in my sanctuary. If I come outside of your church and constantly “protest” you, are you going to sit idly by?
On their own forums where the moderation is not only biased but actually participate in the attacks and penalize Catholics who attempt to respond with facts?
**You cannot confuse these people with facts. Mt 7:6. **Or would you prefer that they just publish their propaganda in editorial pages of local newspapers You mean like they are constantly doing now?
and that Catholics simply sit by while our most holy faith is trashed?
The choice is not on the individual, but rather on the entire Church. We as a church choose not to fight back. But again, there is a time and a place.
Or worse yet…when they bash the daylights out of the faith to our kids or give them a-C literature that they are ill prepared to respond to?
Again, this happens constantly and yet the faithful choose not to do something about it
**Those groups or individuals that come here to argue are not looking for answers. If they were curious there is enough information for them to read without arguing. If I wanted to learn about Buddhism, I wouldn’t go to a Buddhist website, tell them they’re all wrong and then expect them to “convince” me they’re right. I would read anonymously, formulate intelligent, articulate questions, and then ask. That’s not what I see happening here by a long shot.
Again though, it may be me.**
I, for one, am very deeply grateful for Karl Keating and his ministry of Catholic Answers and these forums, where there is much freedom of discussion and debate so long as it remains charitable and respectful. The rules and banned topics here are clear and concise and administered about as even handedly as possible. To me, this is a place to come and find and pass on facts that refute the kind of stuff you are talking about. I cannot imagine a better place for that to happen and a better handled environment than what we have here at CAF.
Since I’m not 100% sure exactly what point you are trying to make I’ll withhold my opinion on that.
As for those who seem distressed at those Catholic on Catholic arguments that sometimes occur here…
So long as they deal with the issues with respect and charity I see it as a function of the spiritual works of mercy, which are,
Just because some individuals are judgmental (in someone else’s opinion) does not invalidate the information that is passed on. Human beings on both sides of those discussions make mistakes. If Our Lord Himself started posting here I wouldn’t expect there to be less controversy. See the Gospels for any needed proof.Code:* To instruct the ignorant; * To counsel the doubtful; * To admonish sinners; * To bear wrongs patiently; * To forgive offenses willingly; * To comfort the afflicted; * To pray for the living and the dead.
Would you like a list of current posts that don’t deal with “questions” but rather invoke arguments and confrontation?
Thanks for your time and God Bless.
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Church_Militant
Guest
I certainly agree with you so far, however, as I said, your initial post wasn’t that clear as to what your issue was.
Of course not, and I never suggested that.
Then why post this gripe in the apologetics forum, which is essentially a debate forum to begin with? If you don’t like debates and are looking for “fellowship or solace” then perhaps you need to be posting in Family Life or Spiritually or one of the other forums that are basically non-debate. Take a look around and see what you find.
That really doesn’t matter. People do that all the time, and (again) if you check the rules & stickies you’ll see there is a system in place to report that sort of stuff to the mods and they’ll deal with it. If no one complains, then how are they supposed to see every posts on here? Use the system.
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mom2three
Guest
I try to stay out of the mudslinging, but I enjoy the debates when they remain friendly. It is a forum such as this which helped me in my conversion…
Wherever we go, there will be those who don’t know how to be charitable. What matters is how we react.
Wherever we go, there will be those who don’t know how to be charitable. What matters is how we react.
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patg
Guest
How boringly bland would it all be if everyone thought the same… It is the incredible range of arguments here that makes it interesting.
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mom2three
Guest
True… It’s always nice to have a good healthy debate going on! Defending the faith ALWAYS affirms my faith and forces me to grow closer to God! Not that I have to be forced!
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rpp
Guest
I am shocked to the core that you actually wrote something I agree with.
I am so glad these messages are stamped with the date and time. I will bookmark this page!
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Camron
Guest
As a lurker here, I do admit that I too am thankful for Karl’s efforts to allow a free and generally friendly place to discuss Catholic ideas. I will, however, also step in and chime with the other posters that there does indeed seem to be much more negativity toward Catholicism here than I would like to see.BothIs this your first forum experience?
Your profile says you live in the deep South, and if that is true you probably have faced some of that stuff before.
Where would you prefer to find discussions and debates about issues that unbelievers and n-Cs/a-Cs bring up (all the time)? On their own forums where the moderation is not only biased but actually participate in the attacks and penalize Catholics who attempt to respond with facts? Or would you prefer that they just publish their propaganda in editorial pages of local newspapers and that Catholics simply sit by while our most holy faith is trashed? Or worse yet…when they bash the daylights out of the faith to our kids or give them a-C literature that they are ill prepared to respond to?
I, for one, am very deeply grateful for Karl Keating and his ministry of Catholic Answers and these forums, where there is much freedom of discussion and debate so long as it remains charitable and respectful. The rules and banned topics here are clear and concise and administered about as even handedly as possible. To me, this is a place to come and find and pass on facts that refute the kind of stuff you are talking about. I cannot imagine a better place for that to happen and a better handled environment than what we have here at CAF.
Since I’m not 100% sure exactly what point you are trying to make I’ll withhold my opinion on that.
I have wondered if the “debate” sections of this Catholic site could be overhauled into a kind of virtual online R.C.I.A. preparation. In other words, I think that if people come here to discuss Catholic ideas, they should be here to learn about the Catholic faith or at least be supportive of the Catholic Church in some way.
More often than not, however, I read many posts here which are blatantly anti Catholic or else very much skirting the rules just enough so that they do not directly say anything negative about the Catholic Church. Usually, given enough time, their agenda becomes clear enough.
Sometimes they are banned. Sometimes they are not. But while we permit them to “debate” with us, we seem to forget that there are other Catholics out there who are less trained in Catholicism and come here for answers and are being left very confused by the debates they read. Honestly, I think that some may be being scandalized by it and actually losing their faith. I think it’s possible anyway.
Me personally, I think it would save the Moderators here at C.A. a lot of hassles by simply stating right up front that there is to be no debating of Catholic ideas here. If a visitor comes here, they should be here to learn about Catholicism, as a welcomed guest much like as in an R.C.I.A. program.
In this sense, it would certainly be permissible to ask further questions by the visitor in order to understand the Catholic position better. Some ideas are quite complex. They would certainly be free to reject the answers given and move on as well. But if they are here to be a rebel rouser against the Catholic Church, they can, in my opinion, go to C.A.R.M. and place their nonsense there.
Regarding arguments against Catholicism, I think that Catholic Answers already has an excellent data base for finding answers to these questions…
God & Christ
Scripture & Tradition
Church & Papacy
Mary & the Saints
Faith & Science
Morality & Ethics
Sacraments
Salvation
Last things
Non-Catholic groups
Anti-Catholicism
Practical Apologetics
Fathers Know Best
All the answers already have an imprimatur. And the apologists who have already explained these points have covered them very well in my opinion. Again, more often than not, I find “some” of the answers given by “some” posters here actually tend to cause more confusion than help. This seems to be especially true when the posters are gripped in a heated debate.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth.
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Camron
Guest
I think there’s enough diversity within Catholicism to discuss “open ended” Catholic ideas and concepts without treading over the Catholic doctrines which are already firmly established.
Some Catholic thoughts are certainly open for discussion. Some Catholic thoughts are sacred and are definitely are not open for discussion.
Anyway, I’ll go back to lurking again.
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Grace_Angel
Guest
patg; its not the bland thats the problem, its the anticatholic vitriol and mudslinging, thats the problem. And if one goes to a “Catholic” I would have thought that that is what would be found and not whole threads of “anti” If I want “anti” catholic thought I can find a secular forum or an anti catholic forum, but it seems to me that the “anti” feels right at home on a catholic place.
GraceAngel.
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blessedtoo
Guest
I don’t care about the unbelievers that want to argue. If one is asking a question of faith, that is fair. If that question is answered and the poster turns around and argues that answer to be wrong, then we’re no longer catering to those seeking knowledge. We’ve now turned into defenders of the faith. I don’t appreciate having to defend my faith in my sanctuary. If I come outside of your church and constantly “protest” you, are you going to sit idly by?
I agree completely with you. I’ve been a member for almost three years and have, in the last year, grown very weary of the belligerence expressed on these forums. Like you, I am not interested in debating with non-believers. I don’t even go to those threads. I am interested in chatting with other Catholics about our faith. When those Catholics adopt an argumentative and obstinant position, where it appears that the main goal is to make trouble, it becomes an exercise in frustration. As another poster stated, there is ample room for debate and discourse with regard to certain Catholic issues but when doctrines that are clearly defined become subject to personal opinions which get bandied about as fact, one tires of the game.
I agree completely with you. I’ve been a member for almost three years and have, in the last year, grown very weary of the belligerence expressed on these forums. Like you, I am not interested in debating with non-believers. I don’t even go to those threads. I am interested in chatting with other Catholics about our faith. When those Catholics adopt an argumentative and obstinant position, where it appears that the main goal is to make trouble, it becomes an exercise in frustration. As another poster stated, there is ample room for debate and discourse with regard to certain Catholic issues but when doctrines that are clearly defined become subject to personal opinions which get bandied about as fact, one tires of the game.
Again, I agree. When I first came to CAF, I spent many months just reading the home page and lurking on threads to get aquainted with the faith and the teachings of the Church. Those who earnestly seek knowledge would do well to take this approach.
EXACTLY! There are several long time posters here who have expressed the same thing. It’s very difficult to find other CATHOLICS out here in the big world who take their faith seriously and follow the teachings of their Church. When one comes to a Catholic forum, one should expect some respite from the constant contrariness.
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zingo227
Guest
I think you’ve got it right
I mostly just read this forum every now & then, and it seems that over the past few years more & more non-Catholics are posting anti-Catholic stuff here. This has tended to lower the quality of posts because after awhile, why keep fighting all the drivel ? It is very time consuming, boring & draining to keep replying to the same posts over & over & over & over again. Not the same poster mind you, but the same kind of simplistic anti-Catholic polemics.
I’ve seen a few threads where I wanted to rant at the moderators to whack the dang trolls so blatantly hijacking threads with just b.s. and the Catholics being all polite & tolerant for whatever reasons and not doing anything to curb the excess enthusiasm from the anti-Catholic trolls
How to fix ? Stricter moderators & more forum guidelines. Why let non-Catholics post drivel everywhere ? Why not limit them to specific forums ? Some other non-Catholic forums are much more strict about this because basically the same thing happened to them, they were overrun by atheist & non-xtian trolls
Otherwise I don’t want to whine too much because generally this is a pretty good forum
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