True Forgiveness

[c_h]

I feel you.
My situation is a little different, but I know how it feels. In my country(somewhere in Asia), though, it’s not okay to just cut ties with a parent. Older people consider it as a sin. People here would rather see a son abusing his parents than him abandoning them. I never want to abuse my father, nor would I want to abandon him. Despite my anger towards him, I’ve always included him in my plans. I always dream of succeeding and buying a big house for him and my mom. My dreams are always about my family, not myself. Despite all the bad things that have happened in my life and my parents not caring about me, I always think of how I could help them and make their lives better. Today I sent my mom a gift, and she doesn’t even thank me. It hurts, but I’m happy because I gave her something that could make her happy.

Sometimes, unconditional love doesn’t come from parents, but from their children.

 

[Mary888]

Things will look lighter after you concentrate on your life and let the hurt just be buried. One day you may feel like you truly forgive and accept him and so don’t cut all your ties with him just yet. The human soul is a mystery.
To answer your question I think that true forgiveness is when the events that hurt are as if they never took place to begin with. I haven’t achieved it but I am pretty sure this is where I should aim. This is why concentrating on other things in your life can help.
Forgiveness is also a help for us not just the one who hurt us.
I think God does forgive even if we don’t because He is perfect. But our faith in His forgiveness will always be challenged until we can accomplish giving it ourselves. At least here on Earth this is how I found things to be.

 

[CatholicTurk]

CatholicTurk:

She still took care of him when he turned out to be a homeless guy and provided him with shelter, and a nursing home later on.

If you read back through my posts, this is a situation where a person who did you wrong ends up being dependent on you in some way for care that you’re in a position to provide, which I specifically noted as perhaps an exception.

Providing for basic needs for a dependent child, sibling, elderly parent - where you are in a position to do this (obviously Joyce Meyer likely had the finances and other resources to help) - is a different situation than being expected to maintain some emotional relationship over time with a person whose basic needs are met.

It’s a fine line and we all need to draw it for ourselves, in our own situations, and if necessary with the help of a priest or other spiritual direction, as well as psychological direction if necessary.

We cannot, however, take situations where someone was hurtful or abusive and tell someone else that they “haven’t truly forgiven” until they can just have a friendly relationship with a person like nothing happened, or that they are required to provide care like Joyce Meyer. This to me distorts the idea of what it means to forgive.

Although i do not believe you mean anything bad, i see that you are arguing fervently against another post of my mine in another thread. So i choose to agree to disagree respectfully, because clearly you are missing the whole point i’m making here (and there, too). Again, i have not (and am not) suggesting that she should go back with her father, have a friendly relationship with him or anything of that sort. In fact, i actually said quite the opposite; not to yield to him at her own expense, etc. You are making those assumptions just because i gave a hypo of re-enacting such moments in her head which is for “self-examination” of heart and soul. Moreover, Joyce Meyer example is only for a much tragic (and criminal) example, not as for instructions to follow in her footsteps. I also pointed it out as not that we should or must. Again, it’s merely a remarkable emotional and spiritual example of strength, fortitude and unconditional love for a human-being, in this case a father, and there’s nothing material about it.

I am the last person who likes dragging an argument, and i believe it is a waste of time for other readers, therefore i’m not going to try to re-explain what i meant upon another counter-reply, as i believe it’s already coherent with a fair reading. Nevertheless, I’ll just leave the word to Our Lord (Matt 18:21-22), and kindly ask you to focus on what He really means by forgiving our brother not 7, but 70 times 7 (implying unceasingly), and yes, even though in order to be able to do that you don’t have to have a friendly relationship, you clearly need to have some sort of interaction with the person(s) who have wronged/hurt you, and work on yourself as best as you can. It’s not a must-do, it’s rather a strive-to-do.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m not “arguing fervently”, I’m stating my opinion, because I think this is an important issue for people’s mental health and to be at peace.

I’m happy to let you “win” any “argument” you seem to think is going on.

Have a nice day.

 

[Vico]

…
I struggle with this because Jesus tells us to always forgive and if we do not forgive others, we will not be forgiven by God the Father. So, I always ask myself, “Did I do the right thing? Did I truly forgive my biological father?” … Do you think God is saying, “let go of all your pain, your hurt, your anxieties - that is forgiveness”? Or is He saying, “that is not true forgiveness - reach out and create a relationship”? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

We are not obligated to unconditional forgiveness, but to forgive the one that repents.

Luke 17:3–4

If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him."

 

[Seagull]

I didn’t know Joyce Myer was raped by her dad, after he came back from WWll -

I found this interesting - wiki -
In November 2003, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch published a four-part special report
detailing Meyer’s “$10 million corporate jet,
her husband’s $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan,
her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children,”
a $20 million headquarters, furnished
with "$5.7 million worth of furniture, artwork, glassware,
and the latest equipment and machinery.

 

[CatholicTurk]

I’m not “arguing fervently”, I’m stating my opinion, because I think this is an important issue for people’s mental health and to be at peace.

I’m happy to let you “win” any “argument” you seem to think is going on.

Have a nice day.

There is no winner or loser of an argument here, we are ALL winners in Christ only.
See that’s the downside of the online blog platform. Wish you could see my face, i’m smiling, look => and actually i’ve just read the end of your Irish rosary comment with the STD which made me smile even more But hey, if you really “let” me win, then i guess i owe you one
Use it wisely… Come on, i’m only kidding! cheers

 

[saintdumbox]

I thank you for your advice. The only trouble I am having is the portion where you say he is “my father after all.” I don’t consider him as my father. My step-father filled the role of father and dad long before I knew the existence of my biological father. When my biological father got upset about my adoption (and changing my last name) and not wishing him a Happy Father’s Day every year, I would always (and still do) wonder, “Why is this man so upset about something he isn’t?” I know there’s a definitive difference between a father and a dad, but I believe they go hand-in-hand and should not be separated.

 

[saintdumbox]

I apologize - in between my original post and this reply - there are some missing links. My mother and biological father did not get married at any instance. He explained to me during our sit-down conversation that, “Your mother and I would have never got married…” Such an odd thing to say. Again, I don’t think he has practiced Catholicism for a significant time and does not understand its doctrines. From my observation, his conversion was later in life (after I was born) and more of, “well, my dad was Catholic, and I never got confirmed … so now’s the time.” While there might be some truth to the Catholic guilt thing, I don’t think his intentions are truly pure. In between him reconnecting with me and our sit-down, he got rather upset with me for not wishing him a Happy Father’s Day and turning down some possessions from my paternal grandfather (that I never knew).

 

[Reuben_J]

Even though you never knew your paternal grandfather, he is still your grandfather, your biological root. Similarly for your father - does not matter whether he legally married to your mother or not.

The reason why we need to forgive is because there is much to forgive. Thus it is humanly difficult to do. It is difficult to accept and to love in such a situation. Yet, that’s exactly what we are called to do. We can only ask for the grace of God to help us to forgive. It is a good time for reflection on this matter during this Holy Week.

Conversely we do not have to forgive on things which are agreeable and fine to us.

God bless.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

We are no obligated to unconditional forgiveness, but to forgive the one that repents.

Luke 17:3–4

If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him."

That is the minimum we are asked to do. We are asked to love and pray for our enemies, do our enemies repent?
We are then asked to love them as we love ourselves. How did Jesus love all his neighbours as he loved himself?

 

[CatholicTurk]

I thank you for your advice. The only trouble I am having is the portion where you say he is “my father after all.” I don’t consider him as my father. My step-father filled the role of father and dad long before I knew the existence of my biological father. When my biological father got upset about my adoption (and changing my last name) and not wishing him a Happy Father’s Day every year, I would always (and still do) wonder, “Why is this man so upset about something he isn’t?” I know there’s a definitive difference between a father and a dad, but I believe they go hand-in-hand and should not be separated.

Trust me, i really relate to what you are going through, as my step-sister went through it for many years and i kept watching her first hating on her father for not being there, then being crazy mad at him for trying to make a come back into her life, then getting confused and eventually fall into despair for not giving him a chance to even interact (she even took our last name meanwhile). But finally she made a decision to confront him and spent a couple of hours before he passed away unexpectedly. It is not to say that it was a happy ending drama, no, far from it. However, she says up to this day, i am so glad i got it off my chest and told/ask him everything i had harbored for so many years. Forgiveness is about your personal healing before anything else. Again, the hypos and the example i gave in my previous posts were just to give perspective, never meant to give you a direction at all. Just follow your heart, while keeping God’s commandments (the bigger picture) in mind.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

We are no obligated to unconditional forgiveness, but to forgive the one that repents.

Luke 17:3–4

If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him."

That is the minimum we are asked to do. We are asked to love and pray for our enemies, do our enemies repent?
We are then asked to love them as we love ourselves. How did Jesus love all his neighbours as he loved himself?

Proverbs 25

21 If thy enemy be hungry, give him to eat: if he thirst, give him water to drink:
22 For thou shalt heap hot coals upon his head, and the Lord will reward thee.

Matthew 21

12 Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all those engaged in selling and buying there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13 And he said to them, “It is written:

‘My house shall be a house of prayer,’
but you are making it a den of thieves.”