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Rascalking
Guest
I never heard it until these forums either!
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missyfatcat
Guest
God commands us to love.
The marital vows require that we promise to love in good times and bad, in sickness and health, for better or worse, until death do us part. Not promise to be in love or remain in love.
People fall in and out of love all the time. Many marriages break up because one or both spouses are no longer “in love” with the other. Or no longer physically attracted to the other.
I would say that love is a mystery, but sometimes I think it really isn’t.
Also, for those who believe that God has that one true person for them, then what happens to all of those who thought that same thing, married that person and then got divorced? I used to think that it was all a matter of destiny, but I think divorces seem to screw that up.
The marital vows require that we promise to love in good times and bad, in sickness and health, for better or worse, until death do us part. Not promise to be in love or remain in love.
People fall in and out of love all the time. Many marriages break up because one or both spouses are no longer “in love” with the other. Or no longer physically attracted to the other.
I would say that love is a mystery, but sometimes I think it really isn’t.
Also, for those who believe that God has that one true person for them, then what happens to all of those who thought that same thing, married that person and then got divorced? I used to think that it was all a matter of destiny, but I think divorces seem to screw that up.
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samovila
Guest
Love is giving my husband the larger piece of chicken when I’m really hungry because I want him to have it. Love is getting up in the middle of the night when I’m exhausted to comfort my child back to sleep. Love is keeping my mouth shut when I want to continue to harp on the fact that I think my husband is doing something ridiculous. Love is making the mental adjustment I need to enjoy my husband’s advances when I really want to just go to sleep. Love is sitting down to watch a movie and spend time with my husband when I’m really not that interested in the film. Love is taking the time to compliment him on how nice he looks even when I could have allowed myself to be too busy to notice. Love is hugging him and kissing him goodnight even when we’ve had a disagreement. Love is sweeping up all the crumbs that dropped on the floor at dinner. Love is changing diaper after diaper and singing silly songs to your baby while you’re doing it to keep him from squirming off the table. Love is holding hands during mass and praying that Christ will make you a better wife and mother. Love is making a nice pot of soup when your family is coming down with a cold. Love is forgiving my husband for saying something insensitive. Love is calmly disciplining a toddler when you really want to just scream, “Why the heck did you do that?!”
Oh yeah, it’s a choice every day and every action you take.
Oh yeah, it’s a choice every day and every action you take.
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PatriceA
Guest
I think “true love” is all of the above. You have times when its full of passion and sexual attraction, sometimes that is mixed with friendship and sometimes its a choice to continue to let the emotions evolve and grow. You have to have it all, the passion and friendship and the will to choose your “true love” every day, especially when you just may not feel the passion like you did in the beginning of your relationship. But guess what, its a cycle, just when you think you’ve lost the initial attraction, you’re blown away about how attracted you are again to your spouse. The problem is in a lot of marriages, IMO, people think its always going to be romance and that giddiness you feel in the beginning and when it begins to fade, they think the relationship is dying. That’s when you CHOOSE to stay and work on the relationship. I think a lot of people just give up, and they actually miss the best parts of a marriage after you’ve gone through those “dry” periods.
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ContegoFides
Guest
Thinking this way leads to moral relativism - the thought that there is no right answer, that “true love” is whatever you believe and value. Further, the defiintion changes from person to person.
This way of thinking is clearly wrong. Moral relativism holds that, 'there absolutely are no absolutes," which is a self-defeating paradox. As a self-defeating paradox, moral relatism is clearly a broken and incorrect philosophy.
Now, we can argue about what is TRUE love, what is love, and what is truth.
However, the demonstrable Truth of what love is has been given to us by God. We see True love on the Cross of Jesus. That demonstration of love is, then, by definition True love - and the love demonstrated on the cross is a choice. There can be feelings associated with the choice, but by its nature that kind of love is a choice.
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lovemyboys
Guest
My advice would be to look for the feeling side of love when you’re dating. No one wants a spouse who chose them because it was simply a good decision with no emotional “in love” feeling. Definitely pay attention to feelings then. HOWEVER, if after you’re married, you have times when you’re not “feeling it” so much, then remind yourself that love is a choice sometimes. Once you’re married, the feelings become pretty irrelevant to the loving actions you should take.
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LilyElain
Guest
Well I heard it one time before this forum…but I thought it was an anomaly until I came on here…
luckily for me, there are some people I have met who do not believe it is just a choice…
I do agree with to posters that say after the wedding sometimes the choice to keep loving is there…
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Consecrated
Guest
Well, the theological virtue of Charity is the ideal, the highest, the most Godly form of love. Period.
I found* The Four Loves* by CS Lewis to be helpful when I was dating my husband. It’s certainly not doctrine, but it helped tremendously to put my feelings/choices in perspective, to give me things to think about.
I think that a marriage without loving feelings would be hard. And I do think that while Charity is first in importance, Eros or affection may come first in the time line of a relationship. Soon to be lifted up and perfected by the advent of Charity.
Personally, even as a romantic, I am scared at the thought that marital love should consist primarily in the deep, passionate feelings I have for my husband. Those feelings, however deep and passionate, are purely human and natural, and as feelings, are subject to change that might seem beyond my own control. If romantic love is “king” in a marriage, what happens if/when those romantic feelings start developing for another person? What if, say during pregnancy or nursing, those feelings peter out (BTDT, by the way). No. Those feelings are lovely, and wonderful, and add so much dimension to a marriage, but they are NOT “king”, praise be to God. They are lifted, edified, and in a way, redeemed by the SUPERnatural grace of Charity which God gives us, and which we strive to practice.
I found* The Four Loves* by CS Lewis to be helpful when I was dating my husband. It’s certainly not doctrine, but it helped tremendously to put my feelings/choices in perspective, to give me things to think about.
I think that a marriage without loving feelings would be hard. And I do think that while Charity is first in importance, Eros or affection may come first in the time line of a relationship. Soon to be lifted up and perfected by the advent of Charity.
Personally, even as a romantic, I am scared at the thought that marital love should consist primarily in the deep, passionate feelings I have for my husband. Those feelings, however deep and passionate, are purely human and natural, and as feelings, are subject to change that might seem beyond my own control. If romantic love is “king” in a marriage, what happens if/when those romantic feelings start developing for another person? What if, say during pregnancy or nursing, those feelings peter out (BTDT, by the way). No. Those feelings are lovely, and wonderful, and add so much dimension to a marriage, but they are NOT “king”, praise be to God. They are lifted, edified, and in a way, redeemed by the SUPERnatural grace of Charity which God gives us, and which we strive to practice.
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JimG
Guest
Thanks for the examples. Yes, love is a choice–every day in every action you take. The marriage vows promise that we will keep making the choice to love daily until death.
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The_Geographer
Guest
Most westerners think of love in terms of desperately uncontrollable emotional love…Passion drives the senses kind of love. Let’s be real. If this were a theological debate it would get creamed and the “premises/conclusions” would ooze with obvious faulty reasoning. A willful love is full of love, the kind that lasts.
Think of it this way. When a couple has their first baby, they are baby crazy, fall in love, over time as the child grows older and decides to do their own thing it isn’t the emotional kind of love that keeps the relationship going. There is a lot of truth in the marital bond. The emotional attachment one gets with their mate [spouse] no doubt is nice and very romantic. But romanticism is a product of the stories of Knights and Princesses. Look at all the old fairy tales. I hate that my daughter loves all the princess stuff because I want her to make a good wife and mother one day. “Princess” is another term for “high maintenance”. And when the going gets tough on “high maintenance” women she gets going. The same is true for men that don’t step up to the plate to be men.
I believe there is truth in needing to cultivate a romantic love with your spouse. But you need to get beyond it before you marry. And make sure you help each other to succeed at being the Knight or the princesses, what ever the game may be. Just don’t teach your children they have to wait for Mr. Right. The girl I dated before going into the military wasted 4 years of my life. Her mother told me, “if he’s not rich then at least he went to the seminary”. They planted several “high maintenance” ideas in their children’s daughters. Sure enough she dropped me like a hot potato for a law school bound man. It broke my heart for several years and I put that pain to work for my country. There is nothing worst than for a woman to allow a man to attach his fantacy dreams to her and allow him to waste the best part of his youth trying to build the pre-foundation of a lasting relationship. Of course marriage is something you have to work at and most people will work at it in spite of finding someone else that might have been an alternative fit. It’s like vocations. Don’t let people let you believe that if someone doesn’t get to become a priest or religious that it was not God’s will. Only God knows His will. It might have been the situation, depends on who’s on the boards/committees that review the candidates. God is a wonderful and merciful God. He loves us so much that he does provide options for us to pursue if one vocation doesn’t work out or seem to be the right direction.
But for the sake of who gets chosen it’s true that we must abide what the committees say. There are other options you know. Like switching to a different diocese or religious order. But when it comes to marriage, make sure you are good friends first.
Think of it this way. When a couple has their first baby, they are baby crazy, fall in love, over time as the child grows older and decides to do their own thing it isn’t the emotional kind of love that keeps the relationship going. There is a lot of truth in the marital bond. The emotional attachment one gets with their mate [spouse] no doubt is nice and very romantic. But romanticism is a product of the stories of Knights and Princesses. Look at all the old fairy tales. I hate that my daughter loves all the princess stuff because I want her to make a good wife and mother one day. “Princess” is another term for “high maintenance”. And when the going gets tough on “high maintenance” women she gets going. The same is true for men that don’t step up to the plate to be men.
I believe there is truth in needing to cultivate a romantic love with your spouse. But you need to get beyond it before you marry. And make sure you help each other to succeed at being the Knight or the princesses, what ever the game may be. Just don’t teach your children they have to wait for Mr. Right. The girl I dated before going into the military wasted 4 years of my life. Her mother told me, “if he’s not rich then at least he went to the seminary”. They planted several “high maintenance” ideas in their children’s daughters. Sure enough she dropped me like a hot potato for a law school bound man. It broke my heart for several years and I put that pain to work for my country. There is nothing worst than for a woman to allow a man to attach his fantacy dreams to her and allow him to waste the best part of his youth trying to build the pre-foundation of a lasting relationship. Of course marriage is something you have to work at and most people will work at it in spite of finding someone else that might have been an alternative fit. It’s like vocations. Don’t let people let you believe that if someone doesn’t get to become a priest or religious that it was not God’s will. Only God knows His will. It might have been the situation, depends on who’s on the boards/committees that review the candidates. God is a wonderful and merciful God. He loves us so much that he does provide options for us to pursue if one vocation doesn’t work out or seem to be the right direction.
But for the sake of who gets chosen it’s true that we must abide what the committees say. There are other options you know. Like switching to a different diocese or religious order. But when it comes to marriage, make sure you are good friends first.
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LilyElain
Guest
Um, you are talking about the difference of Courtly Love and Fairy Tales. Courtly love was an idea that a man chose a out of reach woman to worship per -say…which no one here is advocating by any means.
As a princess loving little girl, who in turn became a feminine woman, I happen to take offense at the insinuation that because of my love of Grimm’s Fairy tales and Chivalry that make me “high maintenance” and unfit as a wife and mother…
I helped raise seven younger siblings while reading about Arthur and the other fairy stories.Leave your daughter with a good impression of femininity and she will be a lovely young woman someday…very able to be a wife and mother.
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Rascalking
Guest
I call my niece my little princess all the time-she’s pretty high maintenance for a 6 year old.
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LilyElain
Guest
Okay…perhaps I am a bit girly in this way… I admit it…
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missyfatcat
Guest
No offense to LilyElain or anyone else, but dang how I hate the princess thing. I think it has lots to do with the stupid princess emote that I saw used when I was a member on Catholic Match.
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angelic06
Guest
I’ve had plenty of crushes throughout life, but I’ve never been desired by any of them. My first girlfriend was someone who I was not even very romatically attracted to but whom I dated because I thought she wanted me and because she took her Catholic Faith seriously—then, only to be dumped about a month later. She used to tell me before we dated how much she missed me, even if just saw each other only two weeks ago, which is what made me think she wanted me. Now, I’m the one stuck with the “feelings” for her and I long for her every day, and worse yet, no matter how hard I pray every night, I can’t get her out of my head, even though she has already evicted me from hers, no doubt. This makes my upcoming Eastertide no better than the last 4-5 + years when I had unrequited crushes. So, since it does not please God to grant me any relief from my feelings only about a week and a half before the remembrance of His Resurrection, where does that leave me now? Let God be merciful, if it pleases His Majesty, that His servant won’t be having a very joyful Eastertide this year. (No, I’m not psycho, I can still function and perform my duties in society.)
True love is both a choice and a feeling. Next time I’ll wait for someone who chooses and wants me AND someone whom I have feelings for. If she loves me enough, let her prove it and earn my love.
I don’t intend on getting together with anyone else in the future since I got a career to plan for, but I hope that the next person I “love” (or is it lust?) will truly be the one intended for me, not just another girlfriend…who will toss it back into the garbage later.
(I sincerely apologize for the vitrol, but I felt I had to get my say in this matter, since I have a lot of experience with lust, even if it is not true “love”. I am usually not this virolic on public forums or in person.)
True love is both a choice and a feeling. Next time I’ll wait for someone who chooses and wants me AND someone whom I have feelings for. If she loves me enough, let her prove it and earn my love.
I don’t intend on getting together with anyone else in the future since I got a career to plan for, but I hope that the next person I “love” (or is it lust?) will truly be the one intended for me, not just another girlfriend…who will toss it back into the garbage later.
(I sincerely apologize for the vitrol, but I felt I had to get my say in this matter, since I have a lot of experience with lust, even if it is not true “love”. I am usually not this virolic on public forums or in person.)
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roselily
Guest
How lovely you are !
May God bless you and all those you love.
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TaraJoBean
Guest
I’ve heard “Love is not an emotion” even from pastors before, and I completely disagree.
Sure, a choice comes in on whether to act on your feelings (and sometimes it’s best not to), but love IS and SHOULD be an emotion. What kind of love is it to marry someone, treat them nicely, etc, but not FEEL emotional love for them… to not FEEL broken-hearted if they should die young in an accident? If someone is not crying at their spouse’s funeral, wouldn’t we think “sheesh, apparently they didn’t love their spouse much” even if they said, “Oh, you misunderstand. I loved him very much… I did his laundry, we did things together, we had kids together, I chose every day to serve him. But love isn’t an emotion, ya know…” :ehh:
I think “Love is not an emotion” or “Love is a choice” is just a slogan with good intentions of perhaps causing people who say they love someone to ACT like it. And that is very good. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants to act on our love for someone (which usually increases our love of them as much as their love for us). But the “love is not an emotion” mentality is a dangerous one. Love that is pure choice and no emotion is no love at all… that’s duty.
I appreciate flowers that my husband gets me on my birthday because he feels LOVE for me. But I wouldn’t appreciate them much if he felt no affection for me but bought them for me out of duty. That kind of “love” is empty & worthless.
(Sorry if that sounded harsh! I was typing quickly, just trying to get my thoughts out. No offense, I hope.)
Sure, a choice comes in on whether to act on your feelings (and sometimes it’s best not to), but love IS and SHOULD be an emotion. What kind of love is it to marry someone, treat them nicely, etc, but not FEEL emotional love for them… to not FEEL broken-hearted if they should die young in an accident? If someone is not crying at their spouse’s funeral, wouldn’t we think “sheesh, apparently they didn’t love their spouse much” even if they said, “Oh, you misunderstand. I loved him very much… I did his laundry, we did things together, we had kids together, I chose every day to serve him. But love isn’t an emotion, ya know…” :ehh:
I think “Love is not an emotion” or “Love is a choice” is just a slogan with good intentions of perhaps causing people who say they love someone to ACT like it. And that is very good. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants to act on our love for someone (which usually increases our love of them as much as their love for us). But the “love is not an emotion” mentality is a dangerous one. Love that is pure choice and no emotion is no love at all… that’s duty.
I appreciate flowers that my husband gets me on my birthday because he feels LOVE for me. But I wouldn’t appreciate them much if he felt no affection for me but bought them for me out of duty. That kind of “love” is empty & worthless.
(Sorry if that sounded harsh! I was typing quickly, just trying to get my thoughts out. No offense, I hope.)
All of the posts here have some good info. But I’d like to get back to the “Love is a choice” theme.
I can’t remember when I first starting hearing that expression. I think it might have been in conjunction with Marriage Encounter back in the 1970s. In any case, it would have been back in the 1970s that I heard the phrase.
The expressions “true love” and “love is a choice” tend to be associated with relationships between men and women (particularly if used in connection with Marriage Encounter) but in my understanding of the phrase we are NOT necessarily talking about romantic love when we say “true love”. We are talking about the kind of love Jesus has for us. And when we say love is a choice we are NOT talking about choosing a person to love. We are talking about choosing to act in a loving way toward a person or persons with whom we may or may not have a relationship.
I don’t know the context in which the OP’s girfriend’s mother was saying that love should be both a feeling and a choice. But I suspect she was talking about choosing a person to love rather than choosing to love a person. Those are radically different concepts. When choosing a person to love for life under the form of marriage we ought to weigh all kinds of factors, including feelings, while making a decision. But once it’s a given that we have a specific person in need of love, be that a spouse or other person, then we are faced with the choice of whether or not to act with love.
I can’t remember when I first starting hearing that expression. I think it might have been in conjunction with Marriage Encounter back in the 1970s. In any case, it would have been back in the 1970s that I heard the phrase.
The expressions “true love” and “love is a choice” tend to be associated with relationships between men and women (particularly if used in connection with Marriage Encounter) but in my understanding of the phrase we are NOT necessarily talking about romantic love when we say “true love”. We are talking about the kind of love Jesus has for us. And when we say love is a choice we are NOT talking about choosing a person to love. We are talking about choosing to act in a loving way toward a person or persons with whom we may or may not have a relationship.
I don’t know the context in which the OP’s girfriend’s mother was saying that love should be both a feeling and a choice. But I suspect she was talking about choosing a person to love rather than choosing to love a person. Those are radically different concepts. When choosing a person to love for life under the form of marriage we ought to weigh all kinds of factors, including feelings, while making a decision. But once it’s a given that we have a specific person in need of love, be that a spouse or other person, then we are faced with the choice of whether or not to act with love.
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agapewolf
Guest
The church doesn’t agree with you.
Second, saying love is a choice is NOT saying its void of emotion. Jesus proved to us that he choice to love us. That was a complete decision because he didn’t feel like doing it.
If love is an emotion, it can leave at anytime. That is NOT true love. True love is wanting the good of another…which is heaven.
I would be scared to death to marry someone who “felt” in love with me, but didn’t realize there were going to be choices to make when the feelings left. Because he would leave.
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TaraJoBean
Guest
For those saying that maybe we misunderstood by assuming that when someone says “Love is a choice” they are also implying that love is not “emotional” or a “feeling,” I wanted to say that it depends on the person. Some people ARE implying that since love is a choice, it is not a feeling. In fact, the original poster pretty clearly said this. So I was referring to the original post.
Here it is again:
In response to agapewolf’s comments :
Ok. I would be surprised if this is true. You would have to show me proof of that. But I think you misunderstand my position anyway, from what you say a few lines down.
Sidenote: It is also pretty sad to me that people just assume that after a few years (or however long), people will just fall “out of love” and not have any real emotional affection for each other anymore. When that happens I believe that is wrong and messed up. Even if you stick with someone when you feel like that and stay committed to them and make choices for their good out of pure duty, but have no affection for them, you do not love that person, in my opinion. And usually, it will show. After 10 years of marriage your heart may not go “a-flutter” everytime you see your spouse, but you should STILL very much have feelings of deep love and affection for them.
Anyway, even if we use the definition of love that it is wanting what is best for another person, WHY do we want what is best for that person? It’s because we have a real, heart-felt (to different degrees, depending on the relationship) affection & care for the person. And THAT is why you want the best for the person.
Here it is again:
So clearly the original poster disagrees that love is a matter of choice AND a feeling (or “emotion”). Although, of course, he was asking opinions as to whether or not his idea of love is correct.
In response to agapewolf’s comments :
.
Ok. I would be surprised if this is true. You would have to show me proof of that. But I think you misunderstand my position anyway, from what you say a few lines down.
But that IS what the original poster said. He said he disagrees with the advice that love is both a feeling AND a choice, and he said that love is NOT a choice. (see above)
I was not saying that love is pure feeling, but I think there is BOTH decision and emotion involved. In a sense, we know Jesus didn’t want to die a torturous death (who does?) but he DID do it willingly because he has a true pity and affection for his people, and for his Father in heaven. I don’t think it was pure dutiful choice. It was both. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I don’t think it has to be one or the other. I’m sure you would also be scared to death to marry someone who was marrying you out of pure choice / duty and had no personal affection for you (I’d hope). I don’t understand why it has to be one or the other (choice or emotion). I think clearly both are involved in true love.
Sidenote: It is also pretty sad to me that people just assume that after a few years (or however long), people will just fall “out of love” and not have any real emotional affection for each other anymore. When that happens I believe that is wrong and messed up. Even if you stick with someone when you feel like that and stay committed to them and make choices for their good out of pure duty, but have no affection for them, you do not love that person, in my opinion. And usually, it will show. After 10 years of marriage your heart may not go “a-flutter” everytime you see your spouse, but you should STILL very much have feelings of deep love and affection for them.
Anyway, even if we use the definition of love that it is wanting what is best for another person, WHY do we want what is best for that person? It’s because we have a real, heart-felt (to different degrees, depending on the relationship) affection & care for the person. And THAT is why you want the best for the person.
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