True or False about the Pope

[gracelife]

**1500 years and Bible Alone **
The task of producing Bibles before the printing press was tedious. Even if they could read, the average Christian could not afford a Bible, nor where they accessible to the masses as they are today. Teaching had to come from somewhere (the Church). The same holds true for illiterate people around the world today. Someone needs to teach them. That someone becomes their authority in Bible interpretation.

No scripture is of private interpretation. 1 Peter 1: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Did Christ allow his Church to teach wrongly in terms of faith and morals for 1500 years prior to the spreading of printed Bibles?

**Christ’s Promise **
Did Christ fail to keep his promise in the Great Commisision? … that is: teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. Matt. 28:20

Has Christ not been with those teaching “everything”?
If Christ is with all of Christendom’s teachers, why all the differing teachings? In terms of Baptism, the Lord’s supper, and other issues, who is teaching that which Christ commanded?

Luke 22:24-32
Being called out as Apostles, they are leaders (benefactors). Jesus teaches them to be servant leaders.

Following this, Jesus says in verse 28-30: You are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Then verse 31…

31"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you[a] as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Why was Satan wanting to “sift” Simon, but didnt’ ask for the other Apostles to be sifted?

This is a forwarning of Simon’s denial of Christ. After the resurrection, Christ restores Simon (now called Peter) and then the Feed my sheep, discourse as we read in John 21:15-17.

**Other thoughts **
Why did Jesus change Peter’s name to rock, but not the other Apostles names? After his name change Peter was no longer consistently called Simon. John stayed John; Matthew, Matthew, etc.

Why is Peter’s name listed first when the apostles names are listed together? Why is Peter so often have a leadership role in Acts, evenmoreso than the other Apostles?

Why so many denominations? Which church is the pillar and foundation of truth in, “if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth” 1 Tim 3:15 ? Does it exsist today?

Foundations / Cornerstones
Paul says there are other foundations besides Christ:
We have various foundations, but one cornerstone. The apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20; Revelation 21:14 ), Christ (1 Cor.3:11 ) the Church (1 Tim 3:15) are all referred to as foundations. Christ is the cornerstone. (1 Peter 2:5-6, Isaiah 28:16.) These may be different types of foundations.

 

[scylla]

Nondenom,

Were you really serious in looking for truth, I have seen you post in several threads in a negative way about Catholicism. Have you had a bad experience with Catholicism that makes you view it in a negative way?

This is what we call hit and run on these forums which is a common tactic of anti-catholics not looking for truth but just wanting to make Catholicism look bad.

I invite you to ask your questions about the faith and not just try to portray Catholicism in a bad way. If you do have a problem with a specific doctrine of Catholicism feel free to ask about it and see if we can give an account for it. 1 Peter 3:15

If this is not your intent, then feel free to post and keep contributing but from what I have seen of your previous posts in threads I am getting that impression.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Lillith]

Scylla,

Your impression is correct. Nondenom is insincere and is a hit-and-run poster.

He also tells whopping falsehoods. He told me that his sister got an annullment quickly by bribing the tribunal, and that if I got together more money that I could bribe them also and get it done immediately. He claims to have been Catholic in one thread, and claims that his wife was the Catholic in another, who he has shown the truth…

He walks the tightrope of being suspended, and it is best that you not waste your time. I have read your posts…they are good…but he will not respond to anything unless provoked. He might respond to this though

 

[shannin]

NonDenom:

Hi
You may think that I’m kidding, but I’m not. It is also not meant as sarcasm. This is the first time I have seen this site. The points that they make about infalability seem to make sense and I was wondering what you thought about them.
Thanks

I’m not going to debate you but you should to consider the source of the article.

 

[Lillith]

Nondenom:

Hi All
I know what you mean, my wife went through the same when when she converted, Her Mom said that she promiced to raise her as a Catholic and that she must have failed. My Wife said that there are too many things wrong with the Catholic church.
My Mother-in-law thought that if was just a faze she was going
through, but it’s not. She has grown more in Christ in the last 5 years than 40 years growing up Catholic. We are now working on her Mom Prayer, Love and Patience.

Nondenom:

Hi
I don’t know how much money you have but my sister-in-law got her annulment moved up a whole year by throwing in an extra $300. if you have the money you might want to try it.

Yikes…I have to apologize! Non Denom never said that his sister was Catholic…it was his sister-in-law…in all fairness I wanted to note…maybe I was harsh in my earlier post…I am sorry.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

NonDenom:

Robert in SD:

Oh yeah, well I ran across *this *

site and wanted to know what *you * think about what it says. They *also * seem to have some very good points, and can back it up with scripture.

Vatican

P.S. The above is sarcasm. All kidding aside, I think you need to be a bit more specific with your question.

Hi
I’m a Christian that is always looking for answers to what I believe. I was looking for answers to the belief of the Pope and infalability on other sites as well as this forum. I was seriously looking answers and all I get is a bunch of smart-aleck responces from you people. I hope that you don’t represent the majority of your church.
Nondenom.

NonDenom:

The website you’re linking is posting distortions of Catholic Doctrine. The questions they are asking are based on those distortions.

When he was an Anglican, St. John Henry Cardinal Newman was able to demonstrate that the real Catholic Doctrines defined and declared at the Council of Trent were completely consistent with the 39 Articles of the Church of England:

newmanreader.org/works/viamedia/volume2/tract90/

It turned out that the 39 Articles had objected to distortions of the doctrines and not the actual doctrines.

The Website you’re looking at is doing the same thing.

If you want to learn about Catholic Doctrine, I recommend that you buy a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (the paperback version is cheap), look at the magazine The Rock from Catholic Answers and watch EWTN instead of some of the secular TV you’ve been watching.

Then, ask your questions - You’ll find out that your questions will be more focused, because you’ll be reading the real doctrines, and that they’ll be received with better humor, because they’ll look more like real questions and less like “Flamer Bait”.

I used to be a member of a ME Forum. I recall that nothing was more frustrating than dealing with someone who insisted on relying on sources which simply distorted the people they were trying to discredit and then using these sources to go down lines of inquiry that had been dealt with dozens of times.

I’m suspecting the Robert was beginning to see a similar situation.

I’m sorry if this wasn’t the case, and if you were going to use Catholic sources to learn about the Catholic Church and Catholic Doctrine.

May God’s peace be with you, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Lillith:

Scylla,

Your impression is correct. Nondenom is insincere and is a hit-and-run poster.

He also tells whopping falsehoods. He told me that his sister got an annullment quickly by bribing the tribunal, and that if I got together more money that I could bribe them also and get it done immediately. He claims to have been Catholic in one thread, and claims that his wife was the Catholic in another, who he has shown the truth…

He walks the tightrope of being suspended, and it is best that you not waste your time. I have read your posts…they are good…but he will not respond to anything unless provoked. He might respond to this though

Lillith & Scylla:

If you really believe that this poster is doing this, then I believe you should report this to the mods and report his posts as “bad posts”.

I believe the persistent use of distortions & “Flamer Bait” are both grounds for reporting.

Hopefully, just seeing this suggestion will make him decide that more honest discussion is in his best self-interest.

I had posted my initial post in the hopes that NonDenom was interested in dialogue.

This post is in case he isn’t.

I hope this doesn’t make things worse.

Pax Vobiscum, Michael

 

[purduekenn]

I thought Peter was an elder of the church consider what the bible says from the book of 1Peter:
1Peter 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed
Thanks,
purduekenn

 

[PaulDupre]

In some bible translations, like the King James Version, the Greek word presbuteros is translated as “elder”. In other translations, it is rendered as “priest”. The word priest comes from the Greek word presbuteros. That word is also where the Presbyterians get their name.

The pope is the Bishop of Rome. All bishops are priests. So when Peter said that he was a fellow presbuteros, he was correct. He was a priest as well as a bishop.

Hope that helps,
Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

By the way, some translations (i.e.: The New Living Translation) even translate the Greek word “episkopos”, which is usually rendered as “bishop” or “overseer”, as “elder”. So it helps to have some knowledge of New Testament Greek so as to be able to understand the sacred author’s original intent, rather than just accepting the translator’s religious agenda and biases.

 

[purduekenn]

Thanks for your post and note the following Greek words are used for Elder, Overseer, Bishop, and Pastor and I have used Thayers definitions.
Elder, greek word Presbuteros (pres-boo-ter-os)
among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
Overseer or Bishop, greek word Episkopos (ep-is’-kop-os)
an overseer a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, elder, or overseer of a Christian church
**Pastor, greek word Poimen (poy-mane)**a herdsman, esp. a shepherd in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow. The tasks of a Near Eastern shepherd were: - to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep - to defend the sheep from attackers - to heal the wounded and sick sheep - to find and save lost or trapped sheep - to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust
It is important to note that elders are plural and there was never only one elder or bishop in the true Lords Church or the New Testament Church of the bible. Consider Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed **elders for them in every church, **with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

 

[PaulDupre]

You didn’t mention Episkopos. Why is that?

At first, there were only bishops and deacons. Sometime in the late 1st century, as the church grew and the hierarchical structure of the church began to become more well-defined, the office of priest began to be separate from that of bishop. In the writings of the Early Church Fathers, starting around 105 AD, we begin to see the well-defined hierarchy of bishop, presbyters (priests) and deacons.

“I exhort you to study to do all things with a divine harmony, while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons.”
-Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch (105 AD)

Again, be careful of Protestant agendas and biases. Some groups have a vested interest in denying a formal structure to the church or in denying an established hierarchy.

God love you,
Paul

 

[purduekenn]

I did use Episkopos it just was not in bold and you may have missed it. I posted the whole thing again only it is in bold this time. Note the following Greek words are used for Elder, Overseer, Bishop, and Pastor and I have used Thayers definitions.
Elder, greek word Presbuteros (pres-boo-ter-os)
among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
Overseer or Bishop, greek word Episkopos (ep-is’-kop-os)
an overseer a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, elder, or overseer of a Christian church
**Pastor, greek word Poimen (poy-mane) **a herdsman, esp. a shepherd in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow. The tasks of a Near Eastern shepherd were: - to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep - to defend the sheep from attackers - to heal the wounded and sick sheep - to find and save lost or trapped sheep - to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust
It is important to note that elders are plural and there was never only one elder or bishop in the true Lords Church or the New Testament Church of the bible. **Consider Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, **with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

 

[purduekenn]

I agree that Ignatius was the Bishop of Antioch. However **he was not an inspired man and that is not the bible pattern from the (name removed by moderator)sired apostles. **Elders is always plural as in Titus 1:5 appoint elders in every city. Also note the **qualifications that they are to be married. Peter was married and was also an Elder.**Titus 1:5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you–
Titus 1:6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
Also not Polycarp says the presbyters with him (plural more than one). I have posted this below:
THE EPISTLE OF POLYCARP TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Polycarp, and the presbyters with him, to the Church of God sojourning at Philippi: Mercy to you, and peace from God Almighty, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour, be multiplied.