True or false

[Sirach2]

The folded napkin = the coporal at mass

I have what I believe is a better reason for the folded napkin.
Briefly, Jewish burial practice required that a person be buried with all of their blood that could be collected and the body needed to be washed. So Jesus was buried with the dirt and stones from the base of His cross that received His blood. He was also buried with His cross, crown of thorns, etc. These things made an altar under Jesus’ body like the altar Elijah built on Mt. Carmel.

Most Catholics would recognize your understanding of Jesus’ burial as untrue, according to the scriptures and tradition. Joseph of Arimathea went to Pilate to ask for the body, and while Pilate had sent for the centurion to learn whether Jesus had died, there was very little time left to bury him before sunset - Jewish law. Joseph did not bury him with the cross and crown of thorns and take moments of precious time to collect his blood that fell in the soil below the cross. Mk. 15:46

Jesus’ body had to be washed in the tomb so that the blood remained in the tomb. Therefore, the floor of the tomb was covered with bloody water. At the time of His resurrection, the tomb was opened so that Holy fire from God could consume Him. The priest, the sacrifice, the wood, the stones, the dirt, and bloody water were consumed, but the linen remained because like Nadab and Abihu’s vestments the shroud and sudarium were not consumed.

Since they did not have time to “wash” or anoint him with the Sabbath being at hand, the women went the next day to the tomb to do this service, as stated in Mk. 16:1. Aren’t you really stetching the imagination to believe that God consumed him with “holy fire?” This is false. Are you Catholic?

 

[TimothyH]

Some people actually point to this statute as the reason why having the priest being bound at his ankle with a gold chain (so in the Zohar) is problematic.

This is a good thread.

I had heard that the reason for concern for his safety was that the High Priest had to utter God’s name while in the Holy of Holies. It was the only time God’s name was spoken, and if the priest was not holy enough he might be struck dead.

I had thought it true, until your posts. Thanks again Patrick!

-Tim-

 

[Bruce_Killian]

Most Catholics would recognize your understanding of Jesus’ burial as untrue, according to the scriptures and tradition. Joseph of Arimathea went to Pilate to ask for the body, and while Pilate had sent for the centurion to learn whether Jesus had died, there was very little time left to bury him before sunset - Jewish law. Joseph did not bury him with the cross and crown of thorns and take moments of precious time to collect his blood that fell in the soil below the cross. Mk. 15:46

Since they did not have time to “wash” or anoint him with the Sabbath being at hand, the women went the next day to the tomb to do this service, as stated in Mk. 16:1. Aren’t you really stetching the imagination to believe that God consumed him with “holy fire?” This is false. Are you Catholic?

I am a strong and Catholic: And they did have time they had close to 3 hours to complete there task, and it was required by Scripture because Jesus was the priest and the sacrifice.
The sacrifice needed to be washed
Leviticus 8:21 He washed the inner parts and the legs with water and burned the whole ram on the altar as a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to Yahweh by fire, as Yahweh commanded Moses.

The priest needed to wash
Exodus 30:20-21 Whenever they enter the Tent of Meeting, they shall wash with water so that they will not die. Also, when they approach the altar to minister by presenting an offering made to the LORD by fire, They shall wash their hands and feet so that they will not die. This is to be a lasting ordinance for Aaron and his descendants for the generations to come."

The shroud indicates that the man it wrapped was washed:
Frederick T. Zugibe, M.D., Ph.D., “The Man Of The Shroud Was Washed” shroud.com/zugibe2.htm

New Testament example of washing the dead Tabitha Acts 9:37 About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed …
Jesus was buried according to the Jewish burial customs:
John 19:39-40 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.
Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

At Mass the Priest washes before offering the sacrifice

The women did not come to wash Jesus but to anoint Him.
Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the [mother] of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Even though He was already anointed with myrrh and aloes.

All of the thing I said happened had to happen for Jesus to fulfill the sacrificial requirements.
Grace and Peace,
Bruce

 

[Sirach2]

You are assuming that what is Jewish burial custom was actually what was done for Jesus’s burial. No, there was not three full hours, considering that Joseph had to obtain permission from Pilate, and that Pilate awaited confirmation of Jesus’ death from the centurian. Time to take his body from the cross and bring it to the tomb, etc.

Briefly, Jewish burial practice required that a person be buried with all of their blood that could be collected and the body needed to be washed. So Jesus was buried with the dirt and stones from the base of His cross that received His blood. He was also buried with His cross, crown of thorns, etc. These things made an altar under Jesus’ body.

Do you agree that these were NOT placed in the tomb and that they did not collect His blood from the dirt?

At the time of His resurrection, the tomb was opened so that Holy fire from God could consume Him. The priest, the sacrifice, the wood, the stones, the dirt, and bloody water were consumed.

This is totally false on many accounts. Jesus’ body was RISEN, not burnt up with fire. “Thou wilt not let thy Holy One undergo decay.” [Acts 13:35] Nor would God consume His Holy Body with fire and somehow reconstruct it later for His resurrection. You are using O.T. examples to prove a likelihood that this is what happened, and yet you have no facts from scripture to back it up.

The priest needed to wash

Nicodemus and Joseph were NOT priests - no requirement to wash.
The only concession I will agree to is that POSSIBLY Jesus’ body was washed, but this is the only speculation of your pathologist. It is not something I would repeat, since the shroud, while venerated by many as Our Lord’s burial cloth, is not required for Catholic belief.

It is your other imaginings that are of deeper concern to me. I don’t even care to participate in this discussion, for your details are not necessary for Catholics to believe in the resurrection, and they are not provable other than pure speculation and assumption.

 

[Bruce_Killian]

I say they must be buried with Him. Look up Jewish burial practice and blood. The blood must be buried with the body, because the life is in the blood.
A sacrifice became corrupt no later than the third day, that is part of the reason for the requirement to burn the sacrifices, Jesus body did not become corrupt because it was consumed.
I am far more Biblically literate than most Catholics and that has caused me to think many things through that do not even occur to most. More than 10 years ago, I wrote scripturescholar.com/HolocaustResurrection.pdf which attempts to detail why Jesus’ body had to be consumed as a holocaust.

Jesus’ sacrifice was not just dying on the cross, His sacrifice and all sacrifices are not completed until the sacrifice is consumed (by eating or by fire). E.g. the Passover any remains but be burned (Exodus 12:10); the atonement Lev 16:27; and the same for all the different animal sacrifices.

Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

We today have an un-bloody sacrifice, but it is a commemoration of a bloody sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ’s Body and Blood consumed in the tomb at His resurrection.

When the disciples on the way down from the mountain of Transfiguration (Nebo/Pisgah) they were discussing what it meant to be raised from the dead, that did not mean to then, just come back to life, so raise as a holocaust rising as a fragrant aroma to the Father.

Mark 9:9-10 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. 10 They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant.

Isaac is a type of Christ. Would God command Abraham to offer his only beloved son Isaac as a holocaust, if it were not necessary for Jesus to be offered as a holocaust?

Finally, you seen to be confusing as making Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea a priest, with my saying Jesus was and is the priest. I good case can be made that one of these men was a priest and they were both members of the Sanhedrin, but that is not the point, Jesus here is the priest and the sacrifice: Much of the book of Hebrews goes into this but here is a short passage from Hebrews that presents Jesus as sacrifice and priest.

Hebrews 10:10-12 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest [Jesus Christ] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
What I say is not required for you to believe, it is required for me, because it was required to fulfill the scriptures, and it does help us to understand what Jesus did for us.
Grace and peace,
Bruce

 

[Sirach2]

I say they must be buried with Him. Look up Jewish burial practice and blood. The blood must be buried with the body, because the life is in the blood.

They did not embalm their dead, true. But to say that Jesus’s blood that fell upon the earth beneath the cross was scooped up with the dirt and brought to the tomb is really bizarre, and I do not believe it for a minute. You still did not answer my earlier post about the cross and crown of thorns that you alleged were brought to the tomb.

A sacrifice became corrupt no later than the third day, that is part of the reason for the requirement to burn the sacrifices, Jesus body did not become corrupt because it was consumed. I wrote …] which attempts to detail why **Jesus’ body had to be consumed as a holocaust. **His sacrifice and all sacrifices are not completed until the sacrifice is consumed (by eating or by fire).

You are applying the ritual animal sacrifice of the O.T. to Jesus, and believing that this was so. It is so heretical that I cannot believe my eyes are reading this. There is not a shred, not a single shred of proof that your theory is true, not from scripture, nor from sacred Tradition. Jesus was NOT burned, nor consumed! Period. Do you contend that God remade His burnt body with the wounds in his hands and feet after He was “burnt?”

And in your arrogance, you maintain that you are biblically literate – probably more than our whole line of Popes and saints, too, right? I have no desire to maintain a conversation about our Blessed Lord being burnt up and the other fantasies you allege.

[sign]BYE!![/sign]