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Rich_C
Guest
+1This was a very insightful and well-written post. Thank you!
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JustaServant
Guest
Bold mine.
Care to elaborate on that?
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TheDoctor
Guest
Because all are welcome in the house of God.
And their God is our God, is He not? That they are coming to worship with us at least shows the possibility of them hearing more of the truth of the fulfillment by Jesus.
Respectfully, I donât think it would have, itâs not easy to see at all, and at least we can both agree that their actions were wrong.
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TheDoctor
Guest
I donât assume to know what my Lord things, but I believe it is safe to say that disrupting a service approved by His Vicar (the Pope) and being run by a successor of His Apostles (the Bishop) would not be a wise thing for anyone to do who wants to be called His follower. Pope John Paul II spoke in the Rome Synagogue, and Benedict has also visited some. Since Vatican II, things have gotten that much better, praise Jesus.
The Church teaches that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God. They have an incomplete understanding, but it is the same God.
We Gentiles were spawned by God, the same God as the God of the Jews. That God sent His Son into the world to fulfill the promises to Israel (all of Israel, not just a select few) and to open Heaven to the rest of humanity is a blessing we should not take lightly. Things have always been interesting in the world of Catholicism and probably always will be until Jesus returns.Jesus came: One, to bring the âoriginal childrenâ back to the fold; and two, to offer adoption to the rest of us Gentiles who were spawned by the devil or other equally false gods. So, how could anyone prior to Jesus have been worshipping the True God except those few who were âchildren of Promiseâ like Isaac, and the Prophets? Christ was a surprise to everyone - even âHis ownââŚThings are certainly getting interesting in the world of Catholicism.
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JReducation
Guest
Letâs take several misconceptions here.
First, a prayer service sponsored by the Catholic Church is Catholic by the fact that it is the Church who is doing the inviting to prayer.
Secondly, the reason that non-Catholics were rarely (not never) invited to services in Catholic Churches prior to Vatican II was not a positive one. On the contrary, the reason was antagonism. Antagonism is not something to be praised or sustained. It was on all parts. None of these people wanted anything to do with each other. Is this what we want to continue?
Thirdly, the bishop of a diocese has the authority and the right to invite people of any faith to pray in his churches, especially his cathedral. Bringing up St. Paul is a very bad analogy as St. Paul did not live in a Church that was carefully divided into dioceses with Canon Law and legal rights for bishops and their local Churches. To bring up St. Paul is to take him out of context. St. Paul would be the first to denounce such use of his pastoral ministry and the misuse just to point fingers and condemn a bishop or the pope.
Fourth, let us be careful. It is difficult to build, but easy to tear down. There is tome on ecumenism that has just been published by the Vaticanâs council for ecumenical affairs. This particular tome contains about 3,000 pages of work by Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict in this field. The man worked very hard for more than 25 years to bring Muslims and Jews to the table with Catholics. Iâve not read the tome and probably wonât, because of its size. However, Iâve read many of the pieces of writing that are in this tome, as they were available as loose essays and smaller works. The message to Catholics is that this type of activity is not only necessary, but a duty of all Catholics. We are called to love and to promote peace. Without these two ingredients ahead of everything else, there is no preaching that will win anyone over to the faith.
Fifth, let us not forget what St. Paul tells us. He reminds us to hold on to what has been handed down to us. If we look at St. Johnâs second letter, he very nicely summarizes what has been handed down to us by Christ. To place a physical building over love is contrary to what has been handed down to us. This memorial service recalled the slaughter of innocent people who were redeemed by Christ as are Catholics and who committed no sin other than being Jewish. Evil must always be denounced and it must be denounced by the world, not just one religious group. Peace must be promoted by all, not just one group. It behooves Catholics to lead the condemnation of evil and the promotion of peace. Such a statement is very consistent with revealed Truth. Therefore, it has a place in our houses of worship, on the streets and in our homes. To take this memorial to a park or an auditorium as has been suggested is to trivialize the millions of lives, including those of Catholics, that were taken by hatred and violence. To bring the memory to one of our cathedral churches is to give the memory its rightful place. No one has the right to take innocent life. We must remind ourselves and the world of this with as much force as possible and in a united voice with non-Catholics. It would be a contradiction to ask non-Catholics to support the Gospel of LIfe as long as they do not do so in a Catholic Church.
Ecumenism is a new word, but the works of ecumenism are not new. They go back to the 13th century when Pope Gregory IX and St. Francis of Assisi made an alliance to send the friars to the Holy Land. The Pope gave the friars a twofold mission, to provide access to Christians to the sacred sites of our faith and to preach the Gospel by their presence among Jews, Orthodox Christians, and Muslims but without trying to convert them, allowing them to approach the friars first rather than go after them.
First, a prayer service sponsored by the Catholic Church is Catholic by the fact that it is the Church who is doing the inviting to prayer.
Secondly, the reason that non-Catholics were rarely (not never) invited to services in Catholic Churches prior to Vatican II was not a positive one. On the contrary, the reason was antagonism. Antagonism is not something to be praised or sustained. It was on all parts. None of these people wanted anything to do with each other. Is this what we want to continue?
Thirdly, the bishop of a diocese has the authority and the right to invite people of any faith to pray in his churches, especially his cathedral. Bringing up St. Paul is a very bad analogy as St. Paul did not live in a Church that was carefully divided into dioceses with Canon Law and legal rights for bishops and their local Churches. To bring up St. Paul is to take him out of context. St. Paul would be the first to denounce such use of his pastoral ministry and the misuse just to point fingers and condemn a bishop or the pope.
Fourth, let us be careful. It is difficult to build, but easy to tear down. There is tome on ecumenism that has just been published by the Vaticanâs council for ecumenical affairs. This particular tome contains about 3,000 pages of work by Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict in this field. The man worked very hard for more than 25 years to bring Muslims and Jews to the table with Catholics. Iâve not read the tome and probably wonât, because of its size. However, Iâve read many of the pieces of writing that are in this tome, as they were available as loose essays and smaller works. The message to Catholics is that this type of activity is not only necessary, but a duty of all Catholics. We are called to love and to promote peace. Without these two ingredients ahead of everything else, there is no preaching that will win anyone over to the faith.
Fifth, let us not forget what St. Paul tells us. He reminds us to hold on to what has been handed down to us. If we look at St. Johnâs second letter, he very nicely summarizes what has been handed down to us by Christ. To place a physical building over love is contrary to what has been handed down to us. This memorial service recalled the slaughter of innocent people who were redeemed by Christ as are Catholics and who committed no sin other than being Jewish. Evil must always be denounced and it must be denounced by the world, not just one religious group. Peace must be promoted by all, not just one group. It behooves Catholics to lead the condemnation of evil and the promotion of peace. Such a statement is very consistent with revealed Truth. Therefore, it has a place in our houses of worship, on the streets and in our homes. To take this memorial to a park or an auditorium as has been suggested is to trivialize the millions of lives, including those of Catholics, that were taken by hatred and violence. To bring the memory to one of our cathedral churches is to give the memory its rightful place. No one has the right to take innocent life. We must remind ourselves and the world of this with as much force as possible and in a united voice with non-Catholics. It would be a contradiction to ask non-Catholics to support the Gospel of LIfe as long as they do not do so in a Catholic Church.
Heâs speaking from the pulpit. The altar is not the place from where anyone preaches, not even a Catholic cleric.
Christ does not contradict his Church and his motherâs psalter is not to be used for our agendas.
Your doubt should be clarified. Yes, many of us have been invited and have preached in synagogues. Pope Benedict himself preached three times, twice in Rome and once in New York. Have you forgotten the big stink that some people made on this forum because he spoke and prayed with Jews in NY? He also spoke and prayed with Muslims at a Mosque. But I donât know whereâŚ
The God of Jews, Muslims and Christians is the God of Abraham. The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus Christ and his Father. The Incarnation and Pascal mystery is for the redemption of all men, not just believers.
The Catholic Charismatic Renewal has not taken over any Church and you must remember that it is a public association of the faithful of Pontifical Right. Council of Trent made it quite clear that laity and clergy have no right to even comment on institutes of Pontifical Right. Whatever we say about such institutes, societies and organizations has to be said with great reverence for the Church and the papacy, because they are protected by the Pontiff himself.
Ecumenism is a new word, but the works of ecumenism are not new. They go back to the 13th century when Pope Gregory IX and St. Francis of Assisi made an alliance to send the friars to the Holy Land. The Pope gave the friars a twofold mission, to provide access to Christians to the sacred sites of our faith and to preach the Gospel by their presence among Jews, Orthodox Christians, and Muslims but without trying to convert them, allowing them to approach the friars first rather than go after them.
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kozlosap
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M-Dent
Guest
Iâm sure many in this group read Holy Scripture yet not so sure some of the SSPX members have penetrated some of the lessons it offers. Too many of the SSPX members seem to believe it is their right to separate the âtaresâ from the âwheat.â Yet Christ delegated that function to the Angels. For good reason. I am beginning to wonder if many in the SSPX biggest disagreement may be with Jesus?
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Jeanne1184
Guest
2 Cor. 11:13-14 â ââŚfor those such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ, 14 and no wonderâfor even the Adversary doth transform himself into a messenger of lightâŚ.â
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willie_duggan
Guest
Only those who choose to believe in Jesus Christ should be made welcome to a Catholic church.
A church should not be used to stage an âecumenicalâ event.
Only Catholic sacraments ought to be celebrated within a Catholic church building.
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Big_Feet
Guest
This, surely, is merely your opinion. If it is not, and is substantiated by any documents or teachings of Holy, Mother Church, please reference. I will be happy to read and understand.
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Thomas_Casey
Guest
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We ask that you keep all discussions faithful to the Holy See and consistent with the current law of the Church.
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You may express indignation over any wrong done to anyone.
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We ask that you keep all discussions faithful to the Holy See and consistent with the current law of the Church.
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RPRPsych
Guest
Thatâs a powerful passage, but who are you referring to? The members of other faiths who were invited to the Church? The Holy Father? (I sincerely hope the answer is none of the above.)
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Vouthon
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JReducation
Guest
This has never been the mind or the practice of the Church, not even during those times we were at our worse relations with non-Catholics. Ask the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement.
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Lormar
Guest
I think more facts need to be gathered about this event.
This doesnât sound like something Bishop Fellay would approve of or sanction, and it might have been done by the group that broke away from the SSPX.
This doesnât sound like something Bishop Fellay would approve of or sanction, and it might have been done by the group that broke away from the SSPX.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Simply in recruiting terms, this makes no sense, really. How do you get non Catholics to see the beauty of the Mass, then? Why throw away one of the greatest of our recruiting tools?
I donât see anywhere that this was a mix of Mass/Protestant Service/Synagogue. Am I missing something?
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KyrieEleison17
Guest
Seeing as it has been mentioned, this brief RomeReports clip seems timely. It quite briefly and clearly gives the mind of the Church on what ecumenism is supposed to be as taught by the Popes:
Vatican guide clears up Benedict XVI misconceptions on inter-religious dialogue
Vatican guide clears up Benedict XVI misconceptions on inter-religious dialogue
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JustaServant
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willie_duggan
Guest
I have no difficulty with people of other faiths and none attending Mass in a Catholic church.
Ideally Mass could inspire others to join our church.
The event staged in that church in Argentina wasnât a mass.I donât see anywhere that this was a mix of Mass/Protestant Service/Synagogue. Am I missing something?
What was staged has been described as an âecumenicalâ service.
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AndyP2010
Guest
Francis should bring back the Inquisition to investigate the SSPX for the heresy of being anti-semitic, and yes I love irony.
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