Truly truly I say to you...

[rbarcia]

I think the distinction here is that the Catholic position would have us understand that the Sacrifice of the Cross was for salvation outside of time. It was for that time, all time before and all time after. The Eucharist is tied to the cross in that way. It is outside of time and for US who are subject to time. It is for us to be present at the moment of atonement in this day right here.

But Hebrews shows that the sacrifice is in time. It is the affect, eternal life, that are eternal.

**

Hebrews 9

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

**

The sacrifice happened in time. God came into time to offer this sacrifice for us. Notice, that verse 26 it says he is not suffering from the foundation of the world.

**
Hebrews 10

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
…

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

**

Jesus said, It is finished

**

John 19

So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

**

The sacrifice happened in time.

**

Revelation 13:8

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

**

does not mean that Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but that names have been written from the foundation of the world in the book of Life belonging to the Lamb slain .

American Standard translates this better.

**
Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.

**

And the context is clear, if you look at Revelation 17:8 you will see the same verse without the Lamb being slain portion

**

Rev 17: 8

8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

**

 

[VociMike]

rbarcia,

You are incorrectly equating “sacrifice” with “suffering and death”. No Catholic denies that Christ suffered and died once, in time, and He suffers and dies no more. But His sacrifice, His offering, extends beyond that bloody moment in time.

You also equate “once” with “it’s over” but that means no such thing. The universe was once brought into existence, but that doesn’t mean the universe does not still continue to exist.

As I asked earlier, if Christ no longer has something to offer, how can He still be our High Priest? Is He retired?

Further, at the Last Supper Christ did not speak of His flesh which would be given, or His blood which would be poured out. He spoke of His flesh which is given, and His blood which is poured out. They are ongoing offerings to the Father on our behalf.

And why in Revelation is the Lamb standing as though slain? Why in heaven does the Lamb stand (alive) as though slain?

I would think Protestants would rejoice at such an ongoing gift, rather than fight against it tooth and nail.

 

[rbarcia]

rbarcia,

You are incorrectly equating “sacrifice” with “suffering and death”. No Catholic denies that Christ suffered and died once, in time, and He suffers and dies no more. But His sacrifice, His offering, extends beyond that bloody moment in time.

But His suffering was part of the sacrifice, there are not 2 separate things, you cannot have one without the other.

Nonetheless Hebrews makes it clear, not just suffered once, but one sacrifice.

**
Hebrews 9

22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
**

None the less Hebrews says one sacrifice again in chapter 10, not just suffered once.

**

Hewbrews 10

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

**

Verse 12 says he offered one sacrifice in time. Not that he suffered and died once?

You also equate “once” with “it’s over” but that means no such thing. The universe was once brought into existence, but that doesn’t mean the universe does not still continue to exist.

This example is not relevant to the discussion. No where does the Bible says the universe existed once, or that is finshed.

Jesus said, it is finished. In the Greek, the language it was written, using the word that is translated, debt paid.

As I asked earlier, if Christ no longer has something to offer, how can He still be our High Priest? Is He retired?

Christ offers the gift of eternal life.

**

Hebrews 9

14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

John 17

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

**

Further, at the Last Supper Christ did not speak of His flesh which would be given, or His blood which would be poured out. He spoke of His flesh which is given, and His blood which is poured out. They are ongoing offerings to the Father on our behalf.

The Bible says there is one offering
**

Hebrews 10:14

14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

**

And why in Revelation is the Lamb standing as though slain? Why in heaven does the Lamb stand (alive) as though slain?

Slain, not being slained, but already Slained. If it was an on going sacrifice, then He would appeared being slain.

continued…

 

[rbarcia]

I would think Protestants would rejoice at such an ongoing gift, rather than fight against it tooth and nail.

I rejoice in the gift Jesus gave me by dying on the cross. Without it, for sure I wold be in Hell, for I have broken the Law. And I have the gift of having an ongoing relationship with Him, through the Holy Spirit.

I don’t understand why you keep offering Him, thinking you have to keep doing something to get eternal life, and that His work on the cross was not enough. Why don’t you save yourself some eternal pain, and just receive the gift of eternal Life. He did it all, we can add nothing to it, Instead receive the gift of eternal life by the grace of God, through your faith in Christ. Then produce the fruits of salvation, with much trembling and reverence, and preach the gospel of life (Christ Died for you and rose from the dead), and do good works, which God made for you to do, so we cannot take credit for them, out of joy and gratitude, and not just out obligation.

God Bless VociMike.

 

[jonfan]

You ignored the verses I quoted, and the question I asked. Why did Paul have to correct Peter?

**
Gal 2

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

**

Hi Rbarcia,
Why don’t you participate when the scripture tells you to do so?

1 cor 11:26. For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come

Merry Christmas,
Jon

 

[VociMike]

But His suffering was part of the sacrifice, there are not 2 separate things, you cannot have one without the other.

Yes, part of the sacrifice. But the sacrifice extends beyond His suffering and death, as the tenses I quoted from the Last Supper dialog clearly demonstrate.

Nonetheless Hebrews makes it clear, not just suffered once, but one sacrifice.

Surely you understand that Catholics believe in one sacrifice. One sacrifice that is ongoing. “My flesh which is given…my blood which is poured out.”

None the less Hebrews says one sacrifice again in chapter 10, not just suffered once.

One sacrifice, ongoing.

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Verse 12 says he offered one sacrifice in time. Not that he suffered and died once?

Then He is no longer our High Priest. “For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.”

This example is not relevant to the discussion. No where does the Bible says the universe existed once, or that is finshed.

I was trying to explain how language works, and how “one” doesn’t mean “it’s over”, as you keep trying to insist.

Jesus said, it is finished. In the Greek, the language it was written, using the word that is translated, debt paid.

And He said that before He had died, much less before He had resurrected. Be careful how you try to use “it is finished”.

Christ offers the gift of eternal life.

Excuse me?! Christ is offering the gift of eternal life to the Father?! I don’t think so! The High Priest makes His offering to the Father, not to us!

The Bible says there is one offering

For the millionth time, one offering does not equate to one offering which has ended.

Slain, not being slained, but already Slained. If it was an on going sacrifice, then He would appeared being slain.

I’m sorry, my bible does not have the word “already” in it. Are you inserting words to bolster your theology?

 

[rbarcia]

Hi Rbarcia,
Why don’t you participate when the scripture tells you to do so?

1 cor 11:26. For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come

Merry Christmas,
Jon

I do participate in communion.

 

[rbarcia]

Yes, part of the sacrifice. But the sacrifice extends beyond His suffering and death, as the tenses I quoted from the Last Supper dialog clearly demonstrate.

No the last supper does not show verses do not say anything about an ongoing offering that is happening outside of time. It is forshadowing to the death on the cross.

In your actions, when you go to Mass, you have an offering. Then the next time you go another one. Just like the Jewish Priests.

If it was an ongoing sacrifice, then why did the author of Hebrews distinguish a repeated sacrifice (which you can visibly see an happening over and over again) to a single one of Christ.

Then to have it appear as a repeated sacrifice. You repeat the sacrifice of the Mass. That is what you are doing, even if you do not admit it. Just look at the action you are doing, it is repeated and repeated. If it was ongoing, never ceasing, then why do you go home after Mass and do other thing.

Surely you understand that Catholics believe in one sacrifice. One sacrifice that is ongoing. “My flesh which is given…my blood which is poured out.”

I know what you believe and say, but it is not what you do.

One sacrifice, ongoing.

Again the book of Hebrews makes it clear the sacrifice happened once in time. The communion text does not say this is an ongoing offering.

Then He is no longer our High Priest. “For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.”

Which He did on the cross. He offered it once and for all on calvary’s cross. A sacrifice so powerful, it covers the sins of the world from beginning to end. He is not in this process, because Hebrews says.

Verse 11 calls it the same sacrifice.

**

Hebrews 10

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

**

He is now waiting, no longer being offered, The text cannot be any clearer. If you make trying to make the communion text to mean something it does not, then it makes Matthew and Luke contradict the book of Hebrews. There is no other way around it.

You can rationalize it but it is like saying, the sky is red, and someone else saying it is blue. And then trying to rationalize it by saying it is both Blue and Red. It just can’t be.

I was trying to explain how language works, and how “one” doesn’t mean “it’s over”, as you keep trying to insist.

And He said that before He had died, much less before He had resurrected. Be careful how you try to use “it is finished”.

He died at that moment. The resurrection is not a sacrifice, just the Father’s approval.

Excuse me?! Christ is offering the gift of eternal life to the Father?! I don’t think so! The High Priest makes His offering to the Father, not to us!

I did not say Christ offers eternal life to the Father, He offers it to us. Now you are just twisting my words, that is ok by me though, go right ahead.

For the millionth time, one offering does not equate to one offering which has ended.

Again, I know one does not mean ending, but, I show in Hebrews that the language clearly indicates that the one sacrifice has ended.

**

Hebrews 10

12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, <<And now after the sacrifice>> sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time <<IN TIME, NOW HE IS WAITING>>waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

**

I’m sorry, my bible does not have the word “already” in it. Are you inserting words to bolster your theology?

The context is clear, you can pretend its not there, it is not theology, just reading. I have no theology degree, maybe you do, that is fine. Scholarship is not a requirement for Biblical understanding.

Why does the sacrifice be ongoing anyway?

**
Hebrews 10

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

**

 

[santaro75]

I rejoice in the gift Jesus gave me by dying on the cross. Without it, for sure I wold be in Hell, for I have broken the Law. And I have the gift of having an ongoing relationship with Him, through the Holy Spirit.

I don’t understand why you keep offering Him, thinking you have to keep doing something to get eternal life, and that His work on the cross was not enough. Why don’t you save yourself some eternal pain, and just receive the gift of eternal Life. He did it all, we can add nothing to it, Instead receive the gift of eternal life by the grace of God, through your faith in Christ. Then produce the fruits of salvation, with much trembling and reverence, and preach the gospel of life (Christ Died for you and rose from the dead), and do good works, which God made for you to do, so we cannot take credit for them, out of joy and gratitude, and not just out obligation.

God Bless VociMike.

The sacrifice of the cross is there in the bread and wine. Do we have to do it to have our sins forgiven…i would say no. are we graced for doing it…i would say yes. I believe jesus told us to do it for good reason.

We are not adding anything to it. What do mean by that?

 

[JoeyWarren]

What Roland does not understand is that Christ gave in essence two sacrifices. An unbloodied one and a bloodied one.

As for the last supper:

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which **is given **for you; this do in remembrance of me. PRESENT TENSE, OCCURING NOW

It does not say:

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which **will be given **for you: this do in remembrance of me. FUTURE TENSE, A PROMISE OF LATER
Foreshadowing? You claim a foreshadowing here but you ignore all the other foreshadowings?

Even a Protestant’s precious Paul keeps the words in the present tense:

1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which **is broken **for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 

[rbarcia]

What Roland does not understand is that Christ gave in essence two sacrifices. An unbloodied one and a bloodied one.

2 Sacrifices? How can you say this? What is sacrificial about eating bread and wine? The Bread and Wine represent the dying on the cross. Now you call it 2.

I do not think even Catholics think it is 2 sacrifices.

As for the last supper:

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which **is given **for you; this do in remembrance of me. PRESENT TENSE, OCCURING NOW

It does not say:

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which **will be given **for you: this do in remembrance of me. FUTURE TENSE, A PROMISE OF LATER
Foreshadowing? You claim a foreshadowing here but you ignore all the other foreshadowings?

Even a Protestant’s precious Paul keeps the words in the present tense:

1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which **is broken **for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Here Paul is quoting Jesus. Jesus Holding the bread and using it in Present tense means nothing about all the future communions, nor does rule out the use of symbolism. Here is my Body, and then breaking it in front of them.

By saying there are 2 sacrifices (which is not what catholics believe), are you saying there is a contradiction in Hebrews 9 and 10 and the Last Supper?

Why don’t you answer what is meant in Hebrews 9 and 10?

 

[JoeyWarren]

I do participate in communion.

You do? But’s it’s only symbolic for you. It has no real meaning for you?

 

[rbarcia]

You do? But’s it’s only symbolic for you. It has no real meaning for you?

The Lord sees my heart. How can you possibly speak for what it means to me. Every time I participate at the Lord’s Table (in Communion with the Lord and fellow believers), I thank and praise the Lord for the cost of my salvation. I think how His Body was broken, and His Blood spilled on the cross so that death could pass me over. I don’t deserve it, I deserve Hell, but Christ Died for me, and for all that would receive Him.

Praise God.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Roland said : How can you possibly speak for what it means to me

I was not speaking for you. I asked a question.

Here it is again.

It has no real meaning for you?

After all it is only symbolic? Yes or No? Is it just a superficial pious gesture?

 

[JoeyWarren]

Symbol: Something that represents something else by association

Symbolic: Relating to or expressed by means of symbols.

"So Jesus said to them, (53) “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; (54) he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (55) For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (56) He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. (57) As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. (58) This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”
John 6:53-58

Elucidation:
53. Truly means most assuredly it is true. A word repeated is used for emphasis associated with an important statement that follows. So truly, truly, means what Jesus is about to say is absolute truth, and therefore there is no room for symbolism whatsoever. Then He gave us a stern warning proceeded by the word unless. Unless sends the message that we have a choice to do something or not. He added that we must eat His Body and drink His Blood, or (the choice) we will have no life in us. Of course He meant spiritual life which is needed to attain the Kingdom of Heaven, something for which we all strive. With the double emphasis put into this verse, how could it ever be mis-interpreted as a symbolic gesture?
54. If verse 53 were not enough, Jesus raised the ante in this verse by saying if we do not eat His flesh and drink His blood, we will have no eternal life, and will not rise on the last day (to heaven, that is). Verse 54 is a double emphasis for verse 53, so the pressure is upon those who refuse to believe in the reality and would prefer the symbolism, even though there is not even a hint of symbolism here.
55. He emphasized again in this verse that His words are in truth reality. I ask again, where is the symbolism?
56. Jesus wishes to abide in us and we in him. How can either abide in the other with a mere symbolic gesture?
57. Emphasis yet again that He speaks of reality and not of symbolism.
58. Do you want to live forever? The only way is through Jesus Christ who is truth personified. If you do not believe His words, then you have just called Him a liar (1John 5:10). Anyone who calls Him a liar will definitely not attain eternal life.

“(27) Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. (28) Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. (29) For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.”
1Corinthians 11:27-29

Elucidation:
27. How could anyone who eats His Body and drinks His Blood be guilty of profaning His Body and Blood? Here is one reason:
“But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”
Revelation 21:27
God and sin are mutually excludable. Therefore where one is, the other cannot be.
28. This verse is an examination of conscience. As the priest presents the Sacred Host to the tongue, he says, “The Body of Christ”. The recipient responds with the word “amen”, meaning “So be it”, or “Truly truly”, a word of absolute consent that he or she is truly receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
29. For those who do not believe that truly truly the Holy Eucharist is the Body of Jesus Christ, then they truly truly have brought judgment upon themselves and are guilty as charged in this verse.

These three verses explain why Protestants, Fundamentalists, and other non-Catholics cannot receive the Holy Eucharist. They do not believe what the Word of GOD and the Catholic Church teaches about what it really is, but they instead prefer to call it a mere symbolic gesture.

Now will someone please explain to me how a person could eat or drink judgment to himself over a mere powerless symbolic gesture?

 

[JoeyWarren]

From the bloody animal sacrifices of the old covenant…

"Now this is what you shall offer upon the altar: two lambs a year old day by day continually. One lamb you shall offer in the morning, and the other lamb you shall offer in the evening;
Exodus 29:38-39

"Besides the morning holocaust which you shall always offer. So shall you do every day of the seven days for the food of the fire, and for a most sweet odour to the Lord, which shall rise from the holocaust, and from the libations of each.
Numbers 28:23-24

“And he shall offer every day for a holocaust to the Lord, a lamb of the same year without blemish: he shall offer it always in the morning. And he shall offer the sacrifice for it morning by morning, the sixth part of an ephi: and the third part of a hin of oil to be mingled with the fine flour: a sacrifice to the Lord by ordinance continual and everlasting. He shall offer the lamb, and the sacrifice, and the oil morning by morning: an everlasting holocaust.”
Ezekiel 46:13-15

“And it was magnified even to the prince of the strength: and it took away from him the continual sacrifice, and cast down the place of his sanctuary. And strength was given him against the continual sacrifice, because of sins: and truth shall be cast down on the ground, and he shall do and shall prosper. And I heard one of the saints speaking, and one saint said to another I know not to whom, that was speaking: How long shall be the vision, concerning the continual sacrifice, and the sin of the desolation that is made: and the sanctuary, and the strength be trodden under foot?”
Daniel 8:11-13

“And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice: and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation.”
**Daniel 11:31 **

“And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days.”
Daniel 12:11

Elucidation:
In all of the above verses, notice the recurring theme regarding sacrifice:
You shall always offer, offer every day, continual and everlasting, morning by morning, an everlasting holocaust, the continual sacrifice.
Holy Scripture clearly has said that sacrifice is to be offered in continuum every day, and will be everlasting for all time.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Toward the end of the Old Testament, we foresee a great change. The bloody animal sacrifices of the old covenant will give way to a new and unbloody sacrifice.

The “sacrificial ram” of the old covenant will be superceded by the infinitely greater “Sacrificial Lamb” of the new covenant.
It will no longer be a bloody animal sacrifice but a new clean oblation.

The prophecy:

“For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.”
Malachi 1:11

To avoid any misconceptions and confusion, I must pause here to present a few definitions…
**
Sacrifice:*
The highest form of worship. An authorized priest offers a victim to GOD in atonement for the sins of mankind.
However, sacrifice in the Old Testament was a holocaust of unblemished animals, which being a finite sacrifice, could not atone for the infinite sins of mankind.

Sacrifice in the New Testament is an infinite sacrifice of atonement for which puny finite man could never have fulfilled. It took the infinite GOD to atone for the infinite offense committed against Him by the disobedience of man.
Jesus the Christ is the sacrificial victim, the infinite sacrifice:
1Corinthians 5:7, Ephesians 5:2, 1Peter 1:19, 1John 2:2, Revelation 13:8

*Oblation:
The act of offering something such as worship or giving thanks to GOD.
It is the offering of the bread and wine for transubstantiation into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ at Mass.

*Holocaust:
Total destruction especially by fire.

*Thanks:
The Greek word for thanks in the New Testament is eucharisteo, from which derived the word Eucharist.

*Transubstantiation:

1. In Philosophy, accidents are properties, or characteristics in the material itself. Its size, shape, color, texture, etc.
2. In the transubstantiation of bread and wine, the substance changes, but the accidents, remain the same.
3. The substance of bread is turned into the substance of HIS body.
   The substance of wine is turned into the substance of HIS blood.

*Eucharist:
After transubstantiation the substance of bread and wine have changed into the substance of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, who is really and substantially present under the appearance (accidents) of bread and wine.
It is called Eucharist, or Thanksgiving because at the Last Supper Jesus Christ gave thanks.

 

[JoeyWarren]

In the early 16th century there was the Protestant revolt led by Martin Luther joined by a few other dissenters, most of whom believed in the True Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Luther, however, believed that Christ existed along with the bread, and he coined the word consubstantiation in order to distance himself and others from the Catholic transubstantiation.

Do you remember from what we learned earlier, that it takes an authorized priest to perform sacrifice? However, we add now that it takes an authorized Bishop to make an authorized priest, and not a single Bishop joined Luther in his revolt. As the first generation of those in revolt died out, so did any vestige of authorized priests. With no authorized priest there was no valid sacrifice. The heirs of the first generation started distancing themselves and began dismantling what Luther and others had taught. Since they had no authorized priesthood, they declared the Holy Eucharist to be only a symbolic* gesture. However, that line of thinking is diametrically opposed to the teaching of Jesus Christ and the Apostles in Holy Scripture…

 

[JoeyWarren]

A summary of what we have learned according to the words of Holy Scripture:

1. Holy Scripture has shown us that a sacrificial offering to GOD for atonement of sin has been performed by mankind ever since the time of Abraham.
2. Holy Scripture has said that those sacrifices are on a continuous daily basis, and will go on until the end of time.
3. The bloody animal sacrifices of the Old Testament will be superceded by a new sacrifice with a clean oblation.
4. Jesus Christ is both the High Priest and the sacrificial victim of the New Covenant.
5. The New Testament sacrifice of Jesus Christ is an unbloody re-presentation of His bloody crucifixion on Calvary. He is the clean oblation of Malachi 1:11.
6. Bread and wine will be transubstantiated into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, as He Himself did at the Last Supper. The authorized priest acting “In Personna Christi”, calls down the Word with his word. The bread and the wine thus become the Holy Eucharist by the power of the Holy Spirit.
7. Jesus Christ taught that we have to eat His Body and drink His blood or we will have no life within us. He did not say we have to eat symbols of His Body and Blood. A symbol is not a reality, has no power, and cannot impose spiritual life.
8. Those who have refused to believe His words, have called Him a liar.
9. Those who partake of the Holy Eucharist, and do not believe it truly is His Body and Blood, have brought judgment upon themselves.

---

Does your sect offer sacrifice every day? How about once a month? Twice a month? Yearly?

Does your sect have authorized priests to even offer sacrifice?

Does your sect abide by the commands of Holy Scripture?

Does your sect offer sacrifice at all, seeing that Holy Scripture demands it as the supreme act of worship?

If not, then why are you where you are, and not in the one and only Church which Jesus Christ founded?

 

[rbarcia]

Symbol: Something that represents something else by association

Symbolic: Relating to or expressed by means of symbols.

…

Now will someone please explain to me how a person could eat or drink judgment to himself over a mere powerless symbolic gesture?

Because by eating the bread and blood, you are proclaiming Christ’s resurrection for the remission of sins, if you are living a sinful life, then you are a hypocrite. No real presence is necessary for this.

You are reading John 6 out of context. Jesus used truly, truly in many places where the context is clearly symbolic.

Here is another example

**

John 10: 7

7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

**

So is Jesus Literally a door? In essence He is truly the door, and He is truly the Bread of Life. The Bread was standing right in front of them, and they did not believe.

**

John 6

47"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

**

Jesus even correct their understanding.
**
John 6

1. It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

**

What about Hebrews 9 and 10? Why does nobody address those verses?