Trump and Regeneron and Abortion

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Here’s from the Vatican. This work was primarily aimed at German measles vaccine, which actually does contain cells from the abortions decades ago.

“As regards the diseases against which there are no alternative vaccines which are available and ethically acceptable, it is right to abstain from using these vaccines if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health. However, if the latter are exposed to considerable dangers to their health, vaccines with moral problems pertaining to them may also be used on a temporary basis. The moral reason is that the duty to avoid passive material cooperation is not obligatory if there is grave inconvenience. Moreover, we find, in such a case, a proportional reason, in order to accept the use of these vaccines in the presence of the danger of favouring the spread of the pathological agent, due to the lack of vaccination of children. This is particularly true in the case of vaccination against German measles”.

https://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/vaticandocument.htm

The USCCB affirmed that position.

"In cases where no alternative is currently available, the Academy said that Catholics may
licitly accept vaccination for themselves and their children using a vaccine based on tissue
from abortion or may refuse the vaccine “if it can be done without causing children, and
indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health.”


The use of aborted cells in the testing of Regeneron is in the past. It doesn’t happen in the present. Still, may we licitly refuse to take the vaccine because of that testing? The Church says we may UNLESS refusal to do so creates a “proportional” threat to ourselves or others. One may argue that use of that cell line in testing is more serious than people getting Covid. But I don’t think most people would say that.

Regardless, it’s ironic that people who support politicians who promote abortion of live children for future reasons of convenience would object to use of cells from abortions performed long ago which cannot be reversed.
 
godisgood77 said:
Agree… My point is that the President shouldn’t be promoting the drug as a ‘miracle sent down from God’ (not kidding !) … and I don’t think we should turn a blind eye to the unethical origins of the drug.
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Are we saying that one has never voted for pro-abortion candidates?
 
Beryllos said:
I looked up some info and see that Regeneron claims that they don’t use aborted baby cells in the production, but did use them to test the treatment early in its development.

That is to say that Regeneron’s immoral use of baby cells for this product is finished. However they may continue using the cell line to develop other products. Perhaps Regeneron can be persuaded to give up the future use of those cell lines.
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Good points, This was posted in another thread discussing this:
… No human embryonic stem cells or human fetal tissue were used to produce the treatments President Trump received–period. Let’s look at the facts.

“The Regeneron therapy given to the president was made in Velocimmune humanized mice, a novel platform that uses genetically modified mouse embryonic stem (ES) cells to generate antibodies described here and here. Development of Regeneron’s antibody cocktail is detailed in the journal Science, describing how they identified their antibodies made from Velocimmune mice and blood from recovered patients previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. The final antibody pair used in the REGN-COV2 therapy cocktail was then produced in Chinese hamster ovary (CHO) cells. Results from Regeneron’s REGN-COV2 clinical trials to treat COVID-19 patients are reported here.
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And other articles have spoken on this…

Also, this is all pretty much beyond me.

She summarized the evidence in simple and clear terms: “NO human embryonic stem cells or human fetal tissue were used to produce the treatments President Trump received — period.”

So, Regeneron denies that it used embryonic cells and other scientists deny it. This completely undermines the charge that pro-life groups are being hypocritical for not condemning the use of the drug (and the president’s promotion of it).
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I’m like Michael Brown the author of this article, I’m no doctor or scientist and this is pretty much beyond me but I have read the explanations.
 
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So…some of you would not vote for Pres. Trump, in spite of his stellar endorsements by hard-working pro-life organizations all over the U.S.–because of a rumor about Regeneron, a drug that was given to him to cure him of a potentially-fatal condition?

…but you would vote for Joseph Biden, a man who stands firm with the Democratic Party Platform of “women’s right to choose to kill their unborn child”?

…or you would vote for an unknown 3rd Party candidate, which essentially takes away a vote for Pres. Trump and gives Joseph Biden the edge and probably the win in the election?

THAT’S WHAT I CALL HYPOCRISY! It’s blatant ignoring of a President who has continued to make pro-life choices and has pledged to continue to fight for the unborn, in spite of intense vitriolic ridicule and criticism from your precious Democrats and liberals.

I would also suggest that it might be considered giving support to those who want to make sure that a woman has the option of abortion on demand, and THAT is sin.

If you could be a fly on the wall during pro-choice meetings and strategy sessions, you would no longer consider these people “gentlemen” and Pres. Trump a clod/boor/low-life/other names implying lack of class.
 
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Democrats are basically dabbling in Infanticide now, how wicked is that? And maybe in truth, it’s not much different than a late term abortion but that has really got to be a red line. Obama, Buttigieg have spoken on it, some say NY Law is essentially that and it was discussed in Virginia.
 
The Supreme Court is now 6 “conservative” 3 “liberal”.

So if abortion is to be made illegal or Roe overturned, the president (like all before him) really cannot change that.

So since the Supreme Court is the only reason to vote for Trump. We don’t have to anymore.

The oldest Supreme Court member is a “liberal”. So If he dies or retires and is replaced by another “liberal” the court is still 6-3.
 
F_Marturana said:
The Supreme Court is now 6 “conservative” 3 “liberal”.

So if abortion is to be made illegal or Roe overturned, the president (like all before him) really cannot change that.

So since the Supreme Court is the only reason to vote for Trump. We don’t have to anymore.

The oldest Supreme Court member is a “liberal”. So If he dies or retires and is replaced by another “liberal” the court is still 6-3.
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I hope you’re being facetious here, or making a sarcastic joke.

There are plenty of pro-life issues that will be up to the President, not the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court cannot make laws or sign laws. Congress makes the laws, and the President signs them into law or vetoes them.

It’s ridiculous and naive to assume that abortion is taken care of now because of the Conservative majority on the Supreme Court.

Keep in mind that just because SC justices are labelled conservative or liberal does not mean they will always vote that way. BOTH sides have had plenty of surprises over the years when a liberal voted conservative and vice versa.

I just cannot get over the fact that all of the working pro-life organizations in the U.S. have endorsed Pres. Trump–but Catholics are shaking their heads, “No,” because they think Pres. Trump is a boor or a flesh-driven sinner (like all the rest of us).

To me, this is insulting to these hard-working pro-life organizations that have seen constant setbacks under Democratic Presidents, and who face constant criticism and ridicule and even false accusations from a liberal press and a liberal entertainment industry, as well as from liberal politicians (local, state, and federal).
 
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F_Marturana said:
So since the Supreme Court is the only reason to vote for Trump. We don’t have to anymore.
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I know some see it that way.

But, Planned Parenthood International, they abort in foreign countries, poor countries, Mexico City Policy revokes those funds. Indeed, this funding has gone into effect for abortions in, I understand, South Africa (see group called “Christian Action” on the web). Is someone really okay with that? I’m not.

Plus defunding in other ways, we can all websearch for the alleged pro-life and pro-Christian, pro-freedom of religion accomplishments of this administration.

ISIS struck down, Caliphate in Syria/Iraq busted.

Lots of reasons.

Just like big pharma, big oil, you have “big abortion”, birth control or however people want to call it.


Something to be real careful of.
 
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Peeps said:
just cannot get over the fact that all of the working pro-life organizations in the U.S. have endorsed Pres. Trump–but Catholics are shaking their heads, “No,” because they think Pres. Trump is a boor or a flesh-driven sinner (like all the rest of us).
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That isn’t true.

“The Helpers of God precious infants” have not made any endorsement to my knowledge. But they aren’t political. They do sidewalk counseling and help real mothers choose life.

As for Roe, abortion was legalized about 50 years ago because the Supreme Court acted. Not because of any vote. In some states it was legal such as California and New York. New York legalized it due to an effort spearheaded by Republicans.

Trump is “prolife” because of his Supreme Court nominations of conservatives who may or may not overturn Roe.

If roe is overturned due to this Supreme Court, it becomes a states right issue.

If this Supreme Court overturns Roe, the president whoever it will be cannot change what individual states do.

And while we wait for the Supreme Court to possibly overturn Roe, other anti life issues are happening in real time.

For example 500 children stolen from their parents haven’t been reunited with their parents.

That was done by this administration.

It’s a scandal.

Voting for a third party like the Solidarity party is a moral option.
 
F_Marturana said:
“The Helpers of God precious infants” have not made any endorsement to my knowledge. But they aren’t political. They do sidewalk counseling and help real mothers choose life.
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Maybe the army of God hasn’t either. Who has heard of some of these people.
F_Marturana said:
As for Roe, abortion was legalized about 50 years ago because the Supreme Court acted. Not because of any vote. In some states it was legal such as California and New York. New York legalized it due to an effort spearheaded by Republicans.

Trump is “prolife” because of his Supreme Court nominations of conservatives who may or may not overturn Roe.
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Trump is pro-life because his actions probably have in fact, saved babies as in implementing the Mexico City policy.
F_Marturana said:
If roe is overturned due to this Supreme Court, it becomes a states right issue.

If this Supreme Court overturns Roe, the president whoever it will be cannot change what individual states do.

And while we wait for the Supreme Court to possibly overturn Roe, other anti life issues are happening in real time.

For example 500 children stolen from their parents haven’t been reunited with their parents.
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There parents have been notified and did not choose to reunite. That isn’t Trump’s fault. So, that is basically a distortion or outright falsehood.

Also, we know it would go back to the states, it’s obvious that a number of states would then make it illegal. It’s pretty obvious, that’s what we want.
 
Victoria33 said:
There parents have been notified and did not choose to reunite. That isn’t Trump’s fault. So, that is basically a distortion or outright falsehood.
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Talk to the Vatican about it. This isn’t really covered in the abortion issue as well.

Deported Parents Choosing Not to Be Reunited With Children, Holding Out Hope to Return to U.S.​

But there’s a couple of numbers that have received significantly less attention in most news reports about the ACLU’s legal fight: 485, the number of children whose parents have been located, and 0, how many of those parents have sought to have their children returned home.
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Ridgerunner said:
Apparently the story is just plain false; just another attempted condemnation of Trump based on falsehood. The Dems think Catholics are stupid, which is why they try to make fools of us using Catholicism to do it.
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It’s hard to tell what’s true or false when people sugar-coat it.
“It’s how you want to parse it,” says Alexandra Bowie, a Regeneron spokesperson. “But the 293T cell lines available today are not considered fetal tissue, and we did not otherwise use fetal tissue.” (from the MIT Technology Review article above)
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The HEK293T cell line is a genetically engineered descendant of an electively aborted baby from the 1970s. As it is so heavily modified, it’s easy to say that it’s not human anymore.

I’m not saying Trump’s a bad man. I usually avoid politics at CAF like the Bubonic Plague.

Neither am I saying the use of these modified fetal cells is morally unacceptable. I’ve read and thoroughly understand the Church guidance on it. That guidance says we should not be complacent about the continued use of cell lines that have descended from aborted babies.

We can admit that it’s going on, and put greater pressure on pharmaceutical scientists to replace those aborted-baby cell lines with new ones that are morally obtained. It will happen faster if we talk about it rather than sweep it under the rug.
 
Victoria33 said:
Are we saying that one has never voted for pro-abortion candidates?
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Unfortunately, there really hasn’t been a pure pro-life candidate on the ballot as an option…so plug my nose and vote most of the time
 
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