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Donkey
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I would not give a penny.
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pnewton
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Not as bad as blaming the victim. And I wonder why so many are fed up with injustice in other parts of the country. I did not know so many people thought this was acceptable.Bad bad behavior Gugino.
That I believe. It is a good charity. To top it off, it assists a lot of undocumented immigrants.
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Donkey
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Acceptable?
That an old man think he is impervious to curfew orders?
That an old man think he can poke at a cop?
Gugino behaved badly. His misjudgment of behavior and ability of his body led to his own demise.
He should be arrested when he gets out of the hospital.
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Donkey
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Lots of ‘good’ charities are hurting and will be worse off in months ahead. Thinking there will be extinction of some great charities that started out on the right foot but went bad.
They do serve and protect. They are not paid to be friendly friends…like a restaurant or store greeter.
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pnewton
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FYI, here it is:
I note that the second person they encounter they simply take into custody without shoving him. They grab him, spin him around and handcuff him.
I note that the second person they encounter they simply take into custody without shoving him. They grab him, spin him around and handcuff him.
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commenter
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In the old movies, a respectable looking guy, dressed up nice, pays a visit to the small business man, and warns him there are dangerous thugs in the neighborhood. If you pay respectable a monthly fee, his organization will “protect” you from guys who break windows and legs.
In Seattle now the respectable protesters are shaking down small businesses in the area they control for “donations”. In many cities the respectables are demanding government money for their agencies, and in return they will turn off the riots and looting perpetrated by totally unrelated to them strangers, who the respectable protesters have surprising ability to turn on or off.
In Seattle now the respectable protesters are shaking down small businesses in the area they control for “donations”. In many cities the respectables are demanding government money for their agencies, and in return they will turn off the riots and looting perpetrated by totally unrelated to them strangers, who the respectable protesters have surprising ability to turn on or off.
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VonDerTann
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–The police everywhere have no “modicum of common sense and/or humanity.” None.
The dynamic here is astonishing: Police are pelted with bricks and bottles; attacked with molotov cocktails; spit on and screamed at – and they’re the ones said to have “no modicum of common sense and/or humanity.” Astonishing - and also very sad.
Illegal aliens, in the country illegally.
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VonDerTann
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Excellent points. As to extortion, some commentators have said that the whole “institutional racism!”-movement is one massive extortion effort. The payoffs are made via our taxes.
One big difference: In the past, when you were a small business owner who paid protection money to the Mob, you actually got the Mob’s protection. The Mob didn’t want to ruin you, just get a few dollars off the top. Now, the mob’s (small m-) demands have become so backbreaking no one can pay them, and they torch your store no matter what you do, even when you’ve “paid the protection money” already via higher taxes.
As I was typing, I saw your post #246. You said it better, but I’m posting mine anyway. Thank you.
One big difference: In the past, when you were a small business owner who paid protection money to the Mob, you actually got the Mob’s protection. The Mob didn’t want to ruin you, just get a few dollars off the top. Now, the mob’s (small m-) demands have become so backbreaking no one can pay them, and they torch your store no matter what you do, even when you’ve “paid the protection money” already via higher taxes.
As I was typing, I saw your post #246. You said it better, but I’m posting mine anyway. Thank you.
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pnewton
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Context matters. I was referring specifically to this topic, here, and this incident here. They were not pelted with bricks or bottles. There are not molotov cocktails. This man did not spit on them. You used the logic that if one is from Milwaukee he mus be a cannibal.
This is who they help. It is a charity supported by the diocese of Galveston-Houston, providing assistance for immediate needs.
https://cjd.org/about/what-is-casa-juan-diego/
Martin Gugino was an active volunteer for the the Catholic Worker movement started by Dorothy Day, Servant of God. It seems an fitting way to respond, in keeping with the teaching of Jesus. I still like to think of these forums as Catholic.
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pnewton
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That is its own issue. Do you know if there is thread on it yet? I haven’s seen it yet.
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VonDerTann
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I am attaching a link to a short article that’s important for several reasons. It has some good background on the incident and what the Buffalo officers were ordered to do, and the aftermath.
It also calls out those who - like on this board - demand “superhuman passivity” from the police.
It also calls out those who - like on this board - demand “superhuman passivity” from the police.
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RobertAdams
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Yes I disapprove of you calling protesters animals.
Don’t worry, those of us who didnt go to law school were also able to recognize your approach to socratic questioning. We’ve all read Aristophanes.
Assuming you are sincerely practicing your “technique” here (for your law classes?), I think maybe one of the reasons you’re having difficulty is that your question is too obvious.
Argument: “the police cant chill because some protestors shoot, throw bottles, and throw molotov cocktails” is the flipside of “the police can’t arrest because some protesters are peaceful,” both being silly arguments.
No one who doesnt already have a previous teacher/student relationship with you is going to be like “oh I should just answer this clown question because maybe instead of being internet trolled a law professor is helping me refine my thinking.”
Don’t worry, those of us who didnt go to law school were also able to recognize your approach to socratic questioning. We’ve all read Aristophanes.
Assuming you are sincerely practicing your “technique” here (for your law classes?), I think maybe one of the reasons you’re having difficulty is that your question is too obvious.
Argument: “the police cant chill because some protestors shoot, throw bottles, and throw molotov cocktails” is the flipside of “the police can’t arrest because some protesters are peaceful,” both being silly arguments.
No one who doesnt already have a previous teacher/student relationship with you is going to be like “oh I should just answer this clown question because maybe instead of being internet trolled a law professor is helping me refine my thinking.”
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TMC
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Why are the actions of a few protesters imputed to the whole, but the actions of a few police have to be viewed as isolated incidents? Particularly given that the police are members of a specially selected, trained and supervised cadre of professionals, who can and should police their own ranks, while literally anyone can walk up and join a protest?
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VonDerTann
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–Because it sure looked like that WAS the whole. These riots and looting went on in every major city in America - or, more appropriately, all the major democrat-run ones.
–And it sure didn’t look like a “few” protesters either: Huge swaths of American cities are burned out & looted. Sure looks like that was the majority to me.
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VonDerTann
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My questions were “too obvious” because the statements made (“Police should just chill out”) had little substance behind them, and could be so easily exposed.
Just as judges often use questions to lawyers as a means of speaking to their fellow judges, I find that approach works better to convince lurkers than screaming at them ever could.
Just as judges often use questions to lawyers as a means of speaking to their fellow judges, I find that approach works better to convince lurkers than screaming at them ever could.
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commenter
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The various police officers and their families now in the hospital or the funeral home as a result of the social reformers will probably get a visit from a chaplain, possibly covering up his collar so no one will think he believes Blue Lives Matter, which is now hate speech. Each of these cases is apparently unique, unrelated to internet anti police fanatics like Gugino, unrelated to all the other police in hospital or funeral home at the moment. No trend here.
But what about about the other police, who haven’t been physically injured yet, just denounced, insulted, often by people in power?
No priest, bishop, or pope for them!
But what about about the other police, who haven’t been physically injured yet, just denounced, insulted, often by people in power?
No priest, bishop, or pope for them!
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TMC
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This is a completely untenable position, as I suspect you realize, and factually untrue. There have been millions of protesters and only a handful of incidents. I also notice you side step my main point - it makes no sense to hold a group that cannot control its makeup accountable for the actions of every member, while simultaneously excusing a group that does control its makeup (and is responsible for their training and their actions) from the actions of its members. You can’t say a bad cop is a “bad apple,” but say a violent protester is the whole group. Not without completely surrendering intellectual honesty and consistency.
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StudentMI
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Bolded for emphasis by me.
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RobertAdams
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An important difference is that it is clear that judges in court are judges acting as judges.
If the same judge is in casual clothes, at a party among strangers, using the same approach would be boorish and unrefined.
If the same judge is in casual clothes, at a party among strangers, using the same approach would be boorish and unrefined.
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VonDerTann
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–Nope. 100% disagree.
When you say something like, “you’re wrong, as I suspect you realize,” you’re basically saying “I don’t like what you said and can’t refute it, so I’ll claim you don’t believe it because then I can claim I don’'t have to refute it.”
Claimsjournal.com, an insurance industry site, says that rioting and looting was reported in “at least 25 cities” and “many suburbs,” and are expected to become the most costly civil disorder in US history. The national guard was deployed to 24 states. It’s still too early to report on the total number of police attacked.
Here’s some material on the number of police injured (“dozens” in Chicago alone):
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