Trust in God over any human....but

[Ben_Sinner]

It takes a human (me) to believe in that. So in a way, I have to trust myself as I trust in God.

It is scary because I am very fallible in my judgments and I can’t fully prove that my perceptions are accurate.

This has been a bit of a struggle for me. I want to trust God and have faith in what He, Jesus, and his church say…but, it all comes down to whether I (a human) believe in it or not.

Can people give me good evidence showing that God is never wrong?

I don’t mean a bible verse here and there. I am talking about real world examples that were experienced by the saints and stuff, particularly more modern examples.

 

[seagal]

It takes a human (me) to believe in that. So in a way, I have to trust myself as I trust in God.

It is scary because I am very fallible in my judgments and I can’t fully prove that my perceptions are accurate.

This has been a bit of a struggle for me. I want to trust God and have faith in what He, Jesus, and his church say…but, it all comes down to whether I (a human) believe in it or not.

**Can people give me good evidence showing that God is never wrong? **

I don’t mean a bible verse here and there. I am talking about real world examples that were experienced by the saints and stuff, particularly more modern examples.

What possible evidence could there be? We don’t know the mind of God or what he intends. What we do know is that he is all powerful and all knowing. How could he be wrong?

We, being only human, are always fallible in our judgements, even the saints. We think we follow God’s will for us, but we could be wrong. Sometimes what we perceive as God’s will is actually our own. The only way to know for sure is pray, pray, pray. This is my daily prayer (from Thomas a Kempis)

“O Lord, you know what is best for me. Let me conduct myself according to your pleasure. Give what you will, how much you will, and when you will. Set me where you will and deal with me as you think best. Behold, I am your servant, prepared for anything, for I desire not to live for myself but fo ryou. May I do so worthily and perfectly. Amen.”

 

[Lucy107]

This has been a bit of a struggle for me. I want to trust God and have faith in what He, Jesus, and his church say…but, it all comes down to whether I (a human) believe in it or not.

Can people give me good evidence showing that God is never wrong?

Since God is sometimes defined as “infallible” to begin with, looking for evidence of God’s infallibility is moot.

It would be like trying to prove that an apple is a fruit. When an apple is defined as a fruit to begin with.

IOW, this whole matter seems to be one of working with definitions. One either works with the definitions as provided, or one doesn’t.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

So what if you are wrong?

Listening to Jesus, much more than “learning about” Jesus – in terms of silent prayer and Bible reading – have helped me learn to live my life better.

I’ve had times of doubt, and times of certainty – but Jesus’s teachings can apply either way to make my life better.

For example, His teaching on worrying. Being anxious and afraid, for example, Jesus says cannot add a moment to our lives – so why worry about tomorrow? Clearly He isn’t saying not to plan for tomorrow or work to make a better tomorrow, just not to worry about it. I suspect I could find modern psychological research that also says our performance on tasks can be impaired if we have a great deal of anxiety.

Or what about forgiveness and holding on to anger? That’s something that helps us.

In short, if you listen to Jesus, you may just find your way into “the kingdom” which is not something “hopeful after you die” but about how to live life here and now. That’s what the “mystics” have done, and what any of us can do – and as VII apparently clarified, holiness is for everyone. Whether all we’ve been taught to believe is true or not, His advice about not judging and about learning to love even our enemies is so strategically useful to a person’s emotional well-being that whatever the source – God, man, or God working through the hands of human scribes – it’s good to listen to. That’s why even as a Catholic I like to read the Bible more than the CCC.

So to me, times of doubt compliment my times when I feel certainty because let’s face it – by statistics I should have been dead a long time ago so something seems to be working in my favor whether I call it “fate” or “luck” or “guardian angel” or whatever. So really even though I’ve moaned and griped about a lot of things, I think there is more going on than just randomness etc. but it just seems so weird that I have doubts from time to time. I think the times of doubts may even make my times of “certainty” feel more real.

MS

 

[Kathrin]

I think the answer is pray.
Speak to God in your heart.
Listen to His voice deep inside of you. The one that gives you a feeling of peace. I remember a priest saying in a himily, everything that causes feelings of DISquietude/anxiety (it was not in English, but in a language where there actually exists the word UN-peace) - is not from God.
So listen to the voice that gives you peace. Warmth, love… feel it, listen to it, hold on to it. TELL God that you want to have more trust in him.
Ask Him to help you feel trust.

There is this quote: “Help my unblelief!” from the Bible (Mk 9, 24; I had to look it up; jjust remembered a preist once quoted that for me as an example that faith struggles are normal…

K.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The key for me in returning to the Catholic Church is the LOVE that is attributed to God and is discussed throughout the Bible. This to me is trust. How is it that LOVE is so frequently mentioned in the Bible?

 

[djchez]

Here is a real world example: Jesus of Nazareth was crucified and died. He rose again from the dead. He was seen by His followers and many others, and many of those same followers gave up their own lives rather than deny that Jesus of Nazareth is alive. This two thousand year old testimony affects us to this day. This is not a story. This is not just a Bible verse. This is a reality, the truth of which overpowers all distrust.

 

[Triflelfirt]

Do you have to trust yourself to know geometrical or logical truths? Our reason can reach infallible truths, through deductive reasoning. Truth is objective, a true syllogism does not depend on its acceptance by anyone. Revelation from God is another premise in the long chain of reasons for our faith; our belief in Revelation may be brought by inductive reasoning (belief in the Resurrection and the Bible, for instance), but the whole chain is deductive (IF God revealed X, then X is necessarily true). And of course, there is no need to not follow our inductive reasoning, unless we have stronger reasons (therefore making the inductive reasoning false or invalid).

To sum it up: “Trust in God over any human” is correct. God (the very idea) is synonymous with truth, and reveals only truth. Truth is objective and independent from man’s acceptance. So long as you have reasons to believe in that God (and the reasons themselves will be informed by truth, hence in the end the trust in God really is above any other trust, it’s just our understanding of the whole series that might be confused or ignorant), it deductively follows that whatever He reveals is truth and must be followed instead of any other man’s reasoning.

By the way, if we were to follow your idea, we’d have to keep in mind that, in order to trust in man, we must trust that there can be some truth in what man can know or talk about. In the end it all boils down to the first principles of logic – like the principle of non-contradiction --, that are necessary and true. Therefore, truth (which really is God) necessarily precedes any human judgement.

Trust in God over any human.