Trustful Surrender to God: how much is too much?

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I often , in my mediation/diary, catch myself relinquishing so much to God, I wonder if others have this issue? how much is too much? Do you ever wonder “how am I giving UP so much control over my life to God?” Is this sane? Is it illusion or faith? Like, Am I heaping coals on my own head by answering my worst fears with “AMEN” so be it? I would be lying to say I don’t have fears, some very bad at times. Perhaps you don’t. And if you don’t have fear, then blessed be to you. This post probably doesn’t pertain to you.

seriously, do you ask yourself: Am I endangering myself by chalking so much up to God? Sure, imho, I understand I have SOME control over what I say, act, and think *(but not necessarily WHAT THOUGHTS give rise to themself and ENTERS MY MIND). For instance, I know the physical body responds healthily to good food, clean water, exercise, breath awareness, present-moment living. I don’t think No prayer life would let me eat 5 donuts, a snickers every day, and have health. Same goes with making money, enterprise, business endeavors… I admit, I think when it comes to relating, in family, dating, friends, fellowship, work, etc… that perhaps that is where fears present themselves the most?

Afterall, in doing adoration shifts in my local parish, I sometimes wonder that outwardly we are a body of Catholics, who sit, stare, and pray in presence of a cracker that we believe has been consecrated and is actually the living physical body of Jesus Christ as instituted by belief in the new testament account of the last supper— Who wouldn’t perhaps look upon that today and rationally say “How preposterous, un-thinking, psychically delusional, and devoid of all reality” would any human be to claim BY FAITH alone, that the something like the blessed sacrament is anything more than a wafer, and the rosary just cool hippie beads?

I read some of St.Faustina’s diary in front of the local blessed sacrament last night- it appears she too had a similar issue. She talked about big inner dark gap or ‘missingness’ of God, then a 'certainty, closeness, nearness, "…

It would be great to see if others experience something similar, and perhaps see and hear how others reconcile it with faith or reasoning… or if they choose other ways ? Thanks
 
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Another good read for you would be Come Be My Light by Mother Teresa of Calcutta. Through her personal letters she documents the complete anguish of doubt and darkness that she experienced for almost the entire 40 years of her ministry to the sick and poor on the streets of Calcutta. But even during that ‘God shaped absent chasm’ inside her grace flowed even more abundantly from her.

So the message of St Teresa of Calcutta is that far from being impotent in those times of doubt and darkness, you can be an even more open channel of Gods grace to others.
 
Good topic! I have come to know God’s Providence through total surrender… especially this year. I have lost work and was worried but I entrusted it all to God and I never went hungry. I know people say that but I really mean it. I had 13 cents left in pennies, no food, no job, nothing and somehow food was made available to me or a family member would offer me money without my asking.

Even when I was dealing with other things… protection from people or emotional issues, God has protected me.

As far as thinking, “am I putting too much stock in this?” Yes I’ve been there but I realized that’s how we are supposed to be if we are Christians. To love God (the greatest commandment) with your entire being is not normal, but it’s how it’s supposed to be. These days it seems like to be a Christian means to say you believe in God as long as it affects only certain areas of your life…but I disagree. I love reading the saints because they understood this.

Besides, even if we are crazy for God that’s not bad either. Even before I was a Christian I found the people who were eccentric to be more interesting anyway. Not saying all of us are eccentric, but some of my favorite saints definitely were!

Now this does make me feel strange at times…for instance. I’m a 31 year old guy and I don’t own a TV or have any social media accounts. I spend most of my day reading and praying…when people I work with ask me what I’m into I usually talk about my faith or the book I’m reading. This makes me seem crazy to a lot of people, especially younger people in their 20s…I often get “you need a girlfriend!” And I say something like, “I trust that if God wants me to marry He will show me who to marry.” One guy then said, “but at least you can sleep around til then, right?” I’m like…definitely not lol. I also have a college degree but work in a low income job. People think this is crazy too but I tell them I used to make $100k+ a year and wasn’t happy with life…which is true. I am more at peace than I’ve ever been and I truly feel like God is with me. I have found this is impossible to get across to people and they probably think I’m a little off but that’s okay. I sometimes think I’m mildly obsessed because I spend all my day reading about God or the saints and when I’m working im thinking about God and I think, “to the world I am not much, but God gave me my desires and I know He has a plan for how he will use me.”
 
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Joseph, this reply you gave is significant to me, why? Because this is happening to you this year. I want to say, as I am now seeing life through the eyes a a 44.5 year old healthy male, that has similarly ‘trusted God’ to the point *(in 2006-2011) of ostracization from churches, been puppet-stringed poster boyed by charity with strings attached, all the while fasting, praying, obeying, and drug and alcohol abuse free.

When I was , after 5 years of exhausting commitment to the Lord, coming up so short that I was almost considered - in the eyes of family and church- best to simply file papers to qualify for institutionalization … I met a particularly influential male role model father figure, in 2010…of all things- he was a devout Atheist, humanitarian, and man of goodwill. In turns out that such relationship in my life proved so powerfully positive in helping me ‘get over the legions’ of strongholds *like St. Paul calls out in the Corinthian letters I think… point being… Not only, under this devout atheist help that I got, was I able to leave the self doubts that plagued my confidence, and engage with the inevitable contradictions of capitalist society and mankind… I was able to lift myself from a place of need to others, to being of service, charity, and helping others… Sound good, right? like a nice kumbaya lullaby, it all works out for good to those that believe?

Well, let me say this now 2019, it has been a waning interaction with this mentor. As I am prodigally returning toward faith in God, as I was under this great help from my Athiest mentor, he did a great job in helping me clean out the unhelpful beliefs strongholds, however, I kept running into a pretty big depression and sense of meaninglessness , even with my huge pile of earned income, non-profit grant making 501c3, and track record of helping several others move their lives forward through my help I have been in a capacity to serve and better do… So for me , I say that I love and care a lot about my mentor, who basically showed me the unconditional love of a father, that I did not get from my abandoning rejecting decietful angry jealous alcholic father…

The point is that there is great mystery in how God works- In one sense, God can “allow the devil” per se, to help one of his badly injured sheep… like how a Tiger, can fight off a lion, to save a deer? Its happened on some nat geo clip…That’s just one way…

Also, I hear your poverty faith… After having been stripped of my dignity, denounced, rebuked, false witneesed… in my own poverty and bankruptcy… I say that I can understand to a degree, what it means to be trustful of a loving God… sure… but now that I am in a position of stewardship of hard earned income, which requires fo me evern greater careful of humility… I do not wish some of what “god allows” to happenn to anyone at anytime, if I can help it… sure, some lessons are divinely ordained…

However, God may have had to send/allow one of his nastiest richest deceiving fallen angels-aka athiest devil… to teach me how to get out the hell I was in… who knows? Lots of mystery in all this
 
Lots of mystery in all this
For sure! I’m always thinking how amazing it is that God can take the worst possible situation and turn it into an abundant blessing. Even when I was in darkness and trying to self destruct He used all that I put myself through to bring me to this point of knowing Him better than I ever have.
 
No… Did any of the followers of Jesus - reflect such a notion?
They didn’t.

I can see it being a bit of a problem though if the person chooses to not take the normal practical steps that God might reasonably expect from a person who is seeking help. For example, if a person is praying to God to help him find a job, then one would expect that person to be out applying for jobs and looking for work, not sitting alone in their room expecting someone to knock on the door and offer them a job. If a person is praying to God that his child recover from an illness, one would expect that if it were reasonably possible (in other words, you’re not trapped in a blizzard or stranded in remote wilderness), the person would also be administering reasonable first aid and care, taking the child to the doctor if at at all possible, or if an emergency then to the hospital if at all possible, not just leaving the child laying in bed and praying over that child and expecting God to take care of everything.
 
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They didn’t.

I can see it being a bit of a problem though if the person chooses to not take the normal practical steps that God might reasonably expect from a person who is seeking help. For example, if a person is praying to God to help him find a job, then one would expect that person to be out applying for jobs and looking for work, not sitting alone in their room expecting someone to knock on the door and offer them a job. If a person is praying to God that his child recover from an illness, one would expect that if it were reasonably possible (in other words, you’re not trapped in a blizzard or stranded in remote wilderness), the person would also be administering reasonable first aid and care, taking the child to the doctor if at at all possible, or if an emergency then to the hospital if at all possible, not just leaving the child laying in bed and praying over that child and expecting God to take care of everything.
As for me… The header - [Trustful Surrender to God: how much is too much?] was a little difficult to initially swallow when placed upon the background of our Lord’s Disciples as per the NT

And Yes… Prayers to be answered require Full Unadultered Faith
along with allowing God to nonetheless exercise His Will wrt the Petition…

“Father, remove this cross from me… yet not as I will but as you Will”

That Said, in reading the text of the OP,
I’m left with the Impression that Faith / Doubt is a clear part of what’s being presented.

With our Free Will … We generally have FULL Control of what we say and do and accept.

That said, we won’t always have a full sense of God’s Presence … as in Constant Consolation…

In order for our Faith to Grow - we must walk sometimes in Desolation

_
 
Didn’t they? Why would they worry about, idk, getting food? Lord should provide it. Why worry about having a house and a roof? Why did the Apostles need to travel by ship? Shouldn’t they just have prayed to be teleported to their destination? Why preach in the first place? Lord, just make all people believe in You, You can do it. Why any spiritual exercise? Lord, please make me perfect. Why pray? Lord, make it so that prayers are no longer needed.

See where I’m getting at? If there is apparently no limit to surrendering to God, none of the above propositions should be excluded. Any limit then becomes arbitrary.

I frequently hear people praying for a sick person and asking for the Lord’s will to pass. First, that’s not what Jesus taught about prayer. Second, it’s really prideful, isn’t it? It assumes that God needs our permission for His will to be done.
Surrender, sure, but if praying for the sick, ask for their recovery or ask so that you accept and understand why not.
 
I frequently hear people praying for a sick person and asking for the Lord’s will to pass. First, that’s not what Jesus taught about prayer. Second, it’s really prideful, isn’t it? It assumes that God needs our permission for His will to be done.
It is never prideful to pray to God, “Thy Will Be Done”. It is in the Our Father, which Jesus himself taught us to pray. Jesus himself also prayed “Not my will, but thy will, be done” in the Garden of Gethsemane. Are you saying Jesus taught us to pray an overly prideful prayer? Are you saying Jesus himself prayed an overly prideful prayer?

God’s will is going to be done whether we pray or not. When we pray a “Thy Will be Done” prayer, we are affirming our acceptance of God’s will even if it goes against our own, or possibly we are saying, “God, I am a puny human and I am under great stress and I don’t know what I want in this situation or what is best in this situation, but I am prepared to leave that decision up to you to make, whatever it is.” Both are completely acceptable and there is nothing prideful about them.

There are also a lot of other theological interpretations/ aspects possible to praying “Thy Will be Done” which are beyond the scope of this discussion, but bottom line is there is absolutely nothing wrong with praying it.
 
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I always understood Lord’s Prayer to express that we know His will is the best for us and His kingdom is what we hope for and to make us worthy of being the agents of His will and heralds of His kingdom. In the end, both His will will prevail and His kingdom will come at their right time. Our prayers can’t influence that, so the Lord’s Prayer must mean something deeper.
 
Can we agree to disagree? I feel praying to let God’s will be done is a cop out. Sure, we don’t know what’s best and God does. But we can still pray for the outcome that we feel is the best one. Hence, for a terminally ill person, recovery or death in God’s grace. And understanding for us who remain here.
 
I’m not really concerned with getting you to agree with me.

I posted only because you were pointing out a standard prayer from Scripture and the Our Father, that came from Jesus and was also said by Jesus himself, and criticizing it as being “prideful”. This makes no sense to me. If it’s your opinion, fine, you’re entitled to it. I would hope others ignore your opinion because like I said, the prayer comes from Jesus himself and is in the Bible and in the Mass.

Jesus is pretty much the authority on teaching us how to pray. And he wasn’t in the least prideful, and didn’t teach us prideful prayers, or “cop out” prayers either.

You pray the way you like, and let others do the same. Prayer is intensely personal, and it is not our place to be criticizing the prayers of others, unless of course their prayer goes against Church teaching.

Muting this thread now.
 
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Mhkc
My grandma used to say, “Pray as if it all depended on God, do as it all depended on you” (she didn’t coin this).
That answers a lot of the issue, and takes care of the question, “is it passive to leave it all in His hands?”. No, it is not. It is what He asks us to do, to trust Him.

But He will also use us as instruments, the means to His end. We are, after all, His hands, His feet, His voice.
Trusting Him entirely, and acting boldly are not contradictory –rather 2 sides of the same coin.
It takes maturity in the faith to learn to truly give it all to God. I remember one time a loved one was going through yet one more agonizing challenge, and I was earnestly lifting her up in my prayer group. Our family had so much trial for so long, and I thought I had submitted to Him every time, while never avoiding effort or sacrifices… I felt the weight of the world on my shoulders, and heard my grandma’s saying on the background. So each time I’d pray and I’d roll up the sleeves. Whatever needed to be done, was. And yet, more was coming!
There was undoubtedly a mix of trust and reproach at the core of my prayer that day, and God heard it.
For the first time ever, He spoke to me clearly and directly. Well, with me being an artist, He showed me: I saw clear as day this woman (me) hanging on for dear life to the hem of His robe, feet dangling in the air. Total trust, right? No. I was only hanging on with one hand. The other was still holding on to issues: family members, the house, the car, decisions to be made, friends. Strung up like a lead garland, they weighed me down and made me unable to safely secure them or myself.
And I heard this from Him, “I cannot help them if you don’t let go. Hang on to my robe with BOTH hands.”
Now that was trust!
What a liberation this was.
All the weight fell off my shoulders.
The undue responsibility. The sense of inefficiency, impotence. Doubt (had I done all I could?)
As I was given permission to let go, He could completely relieve me, comfort me and at the same time handle each issue.

It is not that I stopped doing things, or helping, or being responsible. But I was reminded that we worked together in the solutions, and that when things didn’t turn out as desired, it wasn’t my failure but some ultimate purpose that my limited human mind could not suspect.
The amazing thing is, after that day, He provided for every need in the most impossibly situations. And as we changed our prayer to a more honest “let YOUR will be done”, He went above and beyond. I started calling Him the God of the cherry on top. Where before there was no logical solution, one would come up out of “nowhere”. With two or three additional treats we didn’t expect. This was so obvious that the 6 other people in the prayer group took notice and improved their own walk with God.

Bottom line, there is a lot of maturity in trustful surrender!
It doesn’t imply you stop acting/doing/studying/working/moving up. You are a team. But it does mean that you don’t keep any of that from Him. No job is too small for God. Surrender it all to His will, do it all for His glory.
Hopefully this helped.
 
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What a liberation this was.
All the weight fell off my shoulders.
The undue responsibility. The sense of inefficiency, impotence. Doubt (had I done all I could?)
Please accept my most sincere thanks. Though i am still marinating in other aspects of this share u gifted me and CA, I first want to speak to the way u characterized undue responsibility…that really nailed it for me.

I carry so much weight . My servial *(as opposed to filial) fear/respect of the Lord is beginning to move closer to filial. However, I truly unhappily admit that even in my outwardly successful life- health, wealth, - i am unwise in this area. I see bits clearer now after hearing u…i truly have actually hurt myself, and others, blindly, in the name of responsibility.

Now as I still rest with this wonderful response u gifted us with here, I’m going to see where this takes me tomorrow…after I sleep on it a bit more.

Peace be to you.
 
It is never prideful to pray to God, “Thy Will Be Done”. It is in the Our Father, which Jesus himself taught us to pray. Jesus himself also prayed “Not my will, but thy will, be done” in the Garden of Gethsemane.
Exactly… Understandable to any with FAITH…

The very question… Trustful Surrender to God: How much it too much?

Sound very odd to the ears of one whom Follows our Lord. .
 
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Tis_Bearself:
It is never prideful to pray to God, “Thy Will Be Done”. It is in the Our Father, which Jesus himself taught us to pray. Jesus himself also prayed “Not my will, but thy will, be done” in the Garden of Gethsemane.
Exactly… Understandable to any with FAITH…

The very question… Trustful Surrender to God: How much it too much?

Sound very odd to the ears of one whom Follows our Lord. .
Okay then, what if I trustfully surrender mine and my family’s wellbeing to the Lord and just lie on my bed all day?

It’s not that it’s too much, it’s just that it’s not actually a trustful surrender, but an actual cop out and has nothing to do with entrusting yourself to the Lord.

Indeed, there is no limit to an actual surrender to God’s grace. But there is a limit as to when it is a surrender and when it ceases to be.
 
Okay then, what if I trustfully surrender mine and my family’s wellbeing to the Lord and just lie on my bed all day?
Again: The very question… Trustful Surrender to God: How much it too much?

Sound very odd to the ears of one whom Follows our Lord. .

I’ve a feeling that you do not know why … ?

Where did you find that notion taught within any of specifically Jesus’ Gospel Teachings?
 
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