Trustful Surrender to God: how much is too much?

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That’s what I said. There can never be too much trust to surrender in God. But many actions in which people claim to be trustfully surrendering to God are actually cover for their own inaction.

Fr. Dolindo Ruotolo’s prayer, Jesus, you take over is frequently misunderstood to mean just that. Jesus, I’m too fat. You take over, and I don’t have to do anything now, my belly will disappear as if by magic.
(The other way is, Jesus, you take over, but not really, I’m still in charge, you just make the magic happen and regardless of my decisions make them work. As in, I’m fat, so Jesus, you take over, but instead of following the right inspiration to exercise more, to drive less, to eat more healthily, I’ll just start that latest fad diet.)
 
Peace be to u all. This is a grateful lesson I’m getting by having the privilege of witnessing the probing responses and questions. As today is the JMJ, jesus mary Joseph, holy family mass at my local parish. I was thinking also about way of fellowship offered here is an opportunity to find clarity in areas that otherwise may not have even had the chance to be surfaced.

On this latest point. I truly am getting some great clarity seeing how others process their considerations about trusting God. Hearing the analogy to pray, trust , to lose weight, bit not curb the sin of gluttony…or to perhaps obey legalistically almost perfect sinlessness…*which I think is especially hardest with pride, arrogance, and spiritual pride…

I’m grateful seeing a bit more of the beam in my eye" here. I owe u all a debt of thanks. I am glad when any share i have is responded to with correction. I need correction. As Im not without sin, and thx to these shares, I can see how arrogantly l fall into “pray bit still do all I can.” Yet much of the secret unspoken whisper in the real echo of the back of my mind…IS SELFISH ARROGANCE. About “my” non profit, humanitatian work, local church, health, loved ones, family , houses, enterprises. It’s all about “me me me”, regardless of how dignifying legit…

Truly , as arch bishop fulton sheen noted in one of his teachings on YouTube, something to the effect to “love God truly only for His will”… or filial fear, not servile…requires such a level of sacrificial selflessness…I still fear this sort of Trust or prayer…
 
Marek said:
But many actions in which people claim to be trustfully surrendering to God are actually cover for their own inaction.
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Perhaps so. .

Jesus is very clear that He wants us to give our all.

_
 
This topic tests me. I truly admit “the further I lean into trustit’s like all the more lost I become”… just feels scary, unsafe either way i guess. I guess the hope is that since I don’t make up the rules of life, I can play by them, meaning play by God’s 2 new testament commandly, the 10 ot ones, seek grace, and flee 7 deadly sins, greet confession contritely…regardless how boring, dull, uninteresting, undramatic, mundane, relationless, or sterilized I seem to be left feeling frequently. I guess it’s my only hope worth banking on…I’m a prodigally returning pagan…afterall I’ve had my hand in the sin cookie jar long enough…

I find some times best to consider “when I spot it, I got it”… in terms of the beam in my eye, my arrogance when I “think” I see a fault or character defect in another.

I admit, I truly seem to keep observing I have both servile fear of God, and developing filial fear. I’ve been praying some intentions on the rosary that way. I’m also grateful for my health, even though gluttony over the holiday with red meat puts me at risk of kidney stones…that sin has its own immediate consequences. Not really hard to obey that one.

Well, just wanted to thank the shares, a d glad this place exists to keep track of faith based meaningful relationships, however cyber things have became… of course I got my local body too
 
Do we have any examples from anyone in the Scriptures which would even suggest in any manner that there can be Too Much? Surrender to God… .

Does not our Lord Ask us to - even when necessary - to Leave All and Follow Him Jesus?
 
I wouldn’t begin to think I know any scriptural account, or “read into scripture” my own bias or meaning of trust gone too far.

But for the grace of conversing on this point, I offer

Luke 14:26-

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

So what’s Our lord saying? What’s tgis? A little deception offer, that “they’ll know we are Christians by our hate?” Is this excuse to hate what God hates, and rise up ones own egotistical righteous indignation?
Hmmm… sound like a good recipe to stay grumpy?

Though, I will look forward to any matter of perspective regarding scriptural interpretations. In some ways , I could say the bible had plenty of war, rape, incest, deciet, … all to “tell how it’s all about God”"?.. I guess God could allow us all to be lampshades or kings?

And perhaps however erroneously interpreted I surely may be, in exodus…could it be proffered the Israelites “trusted God” , specifically God’s grace and forgiveness qualities, so much that they figured what the heck is wrong with a making gold calf, *(or at least aaron said the gold collected turned into a calf in the fire) while moses dilly dallies on some mountain man charade drumming up 10 commandments w/ some imaginary Casper the friendly ghost figure ? Then “God” had the Levites kill around 3k of em?
Idk, just saying that’s one take spin on trust too much… however erroneous…I’m not insinuating I’m up for debate, as I’m pretty sure I am wrong, and 99.9% of other peeps would be right in correcting me.

However , this excerpt from a story, is more apropo I think about how one living a life today might be challenged.

Young Mom said : All this “Trust God” mentality did for me growing up, was to teach me to “shut up and trust God” shut up about abuse, molestation,
incest, shut up about dreams, shut up about everything and just believe that God will take care of it all. Well, he didn’t.
 
Mhkc said:
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
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Correctamundo. It is Jesus who asks for your undivided attention…

So… There’s no such thing as “too much”

Reader Understand: Not that that equates to forgetting about our Parents and Neighbors.
 
Well, this talk by Ven. Fulton Sheen…

…once again, sends a pretty big stir in me and my relationship to Christ. Why? Because I truly feel that though I am definitely still in servile fear, not filial… and still leaving the old adam within me… that has a hard time getting past merely ‘obeying commands’, I’m only in the better half of me. I am still slowly getting to whereI feel love, love of God/Dad, so to speak. I guess its just me…

I suppose its allotted to me this process, I don’t like it and don’t wish it on anyone…as many of you konw I am a prodigal… I so don’t want to live in the fear I have when I meditate on the mysteries of Christ in Rosaries. I get so scared because of Truth of Christ’s wake on my life
 
Mhkc said:
…once again, sends a pretty big stir in me and my relationship to Christ. Why? Because I truly feel that though I am definitely still in servile fear, not filial… and still leaving the old adam within me… that has a hard time getting past merely ‘obeying commands’, I’m only in the better half of me. I am still slowly getting to whereI feel love, love of God/Dad, so to speak. I guess its just me…
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Welcome to the world of spiritual Growth…
 
Words can’t express my petionining thanks, that more readers of this thread may chime in with their truest positions of heart and conscience…in response to what is shared.

I say , as I recieve whatever sanctification Grace has allowed me…When I contend with the sayings of Christ, the/our/my Lord, where in Luke’s account Jesus provokes a person to leave all, follow him, take up thy cross, trust that we are more important to be provided for than sparrows, and hate ones own life, family, and that he came to bring division not peace… I find that to be so testing.

Let me say, in 2006-2010, I truly sought this element of surrender. Needless to say, it ended in bankruptcy and almost worse. I was visiting protestantism then too, and arguably fell into a few cult like churches/ministries…Now, that experience jaded me bad, could I be blamed?

I had deeply fasted, prayed much, put away much much sin, repented…and told all my life was in trust to Christ…to the point where “sure, I had been provided” …by handouts, state, and almost declared instance and locked up or put into special social programs? So Christ provided? Maybe not what i wanted? U know, getting put up in shelters, exposed to others who r abusive *(physically, mentally, sexually)…

And I’m busy bout the fathers business? Hanging out with publicans, sinners, being scandalized, false witnessed, framed, and singing praise that my redeemer lives? In the face of others who wrote me off insane, detriment to society, vagabond, stupid, following Christ to far… meanwhile I’m just sharing the gospel verses that say ththe ways of the world are deception, lies…its all lies, Christ is truth alone…nothing else matters…

Any thoughts, ? R u sure u really don’t want the prosperity gospel? Maybe we just keep things kumbaya, Eureka, peace, love…u know? R u sure u want to be a martyr? Is then, Christ’s Truth to fill the whole world with a thoecratic martyrs?
 
Mhkc said:
I had deeply fasted, prayed much, put away much much sin, repented…and told all my life was in trust to Christ…to the point where “sure, I had been provided” …by handouts, state, and almost declared instance and locked up or put into special social programs? So Christ provided? Maybe not what i wanted? U know, getting put up in shelters, exposed to others who r abusive *(physically, mentally, sexually)…
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God gives what one needs - to those who truly possess Faith.
 
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With respect, to scrupulosity, and Grace…I find myself best to put forth a good effort in trust. Humbly owing no one an explanation. Amen. Yes. Find balance “in the world , not of it”…that’s work for me, this guy. I learned I don’t respond well to either too much macho ego st.peter like self will…nor too much lax excuse type graceful attitude of saved by grace since i read the bible only… I just think there’s a balance.

It’s also a "process " I’d rather to get used too…I think healthy boundaries play a role for me… there are a lot of religiously abusive personality personality types I’ve observed, as similar to parental abusers…forgive us all for we know what we do…I’m still vigilant
 
@Dan_Defender St. Augustine wasn’t English, he used Latin to express this, so no point in correcting a translation.
 
Another , rather very difficult aspect to the idea of : “trust” and pray for god’s help, yet act as if it depended on me…is the fact…that when it comes to legit charity, service, and human nature…I find it’s best nkt to be a martyr by choice , or girthat mayter, much chance.

While i helped a lady prevent a 2nd suicide attempt…and calmed this soul down…another sousoul felt uncomortable…that led to a bizarre law enforcemebt investigation…with me being a ter ist…such a false witness scandal become so bazzar, absurd, and I could have a non-trial indefinite jailing under rule 41…no bones…

Thus, “trust god”, do charity , getslaughtered, sing kumbaya?
 
A little off topic but reading your response makes me wonder if you might have a vocation for the priesthood or deaconate.
 
Kindnessmatters said:
tion for the priesthood or deaconate.
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I hear ya. I do discerningly consider priesthood…but moreso rather I feel called as laity, to be the best I can, regardless.

I say in one word, I want marriage, as I’m healthy, wealthy, and imperfectly willing…yet no legit prospects. I could have been married to my ex gf, after she got annulment, cuz her ex cheated.

Anyway, not to ramble. I do admit I’ve wondered if it’s even wise to bring children into this world. In not happy about that. I’m 44.5… but everywhere I turn, even with my best effort pursuing Christ I almost feel like “who wouldn’t understand?”

I guess I pray for someone who can really understand that, and maybe help healthily partner to have the courage…
 
A primary knowledge behind my faith is that I do not need what I cannot have. I am not getting it and will live or die… whatever is meant to be…without that unavailable thing.

Among such unavailable things, I cannot have proof of all things Christian or Catholic. Questions you raise are academic curiosities to me but not moral dilemmas.

I have come to realize that I revere the consecrated host as a form of love, respect and gratitude for God’s presence in my life and Jesus’ sacrifice. If I learn at death that the idea of transubstantiation is ludicrous, I am not concerned. Whether real or symbolic, the sacrament heals my heart.

I accept we do not have God’s omniscience, whether individually or collectively. I will not fret over what I cannot know.

It is my understanding that we should avoid sin and seek virtue. Turning my life over to God is the opposite of taking a step back. It is a commitment to fully engage in living as He has already taught me. If I did not have faith, I would still see the worldly benefits of avoiding sin and seeking virtues. Ultimately, that is what our faith asks…avoid sin, seek virtue and when you screw up, take responsibility, confess, repent, pray and try again.

In relinquishing control to God, what I am really giving up is arguing over the unprovable. It matters little whether a portion of the Bible is parable or historic, for example…the lesson is what matters. I am not giving up the driver’s seat…I’m accepting that I don’t know the neighborhood and I’m using my GPS.

Further, acting in faith it is not losing control but rather seizing it. Who is more in command of their lives than a faithful Catholic? The mastery over ourselves is the most difficult mountain to climb.
 
The Lord helps those that help themselves.

The danger of giving it all up to God is that you can drop out of life. If you’re hungry and someone feeds you, it’s because that person is doing the work to feed you. If you need a place to sleep, and someone shelters you, it’s because that person is working to put a roof over your head.

That’s not God’s providence.
 
on_the_hill said:
The Lord helps those that help themselves.

The danger of giving it all up to God is that you can drop out of life. If you’re hungry and someone feeds you, it’s because that person is doing the work to feed you. If you need a place to sleep, and someone shelters you, it’s because that person is working to put a roof over your head.

That’s not God’s providence.
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Yeah. I hear ya. And then, on the charity giving side of calling that Christ seems to guide me…its like a matter of what season of life one is in I guess… what I mean when I say that is there have been times when I’ve made lots of money and had great health and it was more along the lines of me being in abundance and offering to give that back in some fashion … like tithing ,
going through directly paying for a hotel room for somebody, or buying them food… And then there have been times when I was the one who was being fed and i was being housed on somebody else’s bill… So I have been on both sides of that fence… And is it not plausibly arguable that trusting God was just as active? In both scenarios?

I can say it’s a struggle to be in the world and not of the world… I can say that it’s very difficult to navigate… the necessity for Sheltering oneself as a matter of social responsibility so as not to burden Society… But also the levels of choice that comes with enriching oneself through working through skills…to not live in a cold shak… Nothing against the teachings of Christ, but if I had my pick of shelter I would make it rather nice and have a decent automobile and participate in society- however ill- with some manner of reasonable material substance…definitely not flaunty or overdone… but at least not destitution.

And during the time of my bankruptcy when I was facing some Dire Straits… The level of “charity” shelter was very unsanitary and dangerous and the types of people I had to live with were very much and safe and unkempt… In the food was a low nutritional value… So in some ways as I built myself back up …I now do quite a bit of things to ensure my material gains are decent…

This is a very painful issue… And I do not think nor suggest that having faith means comfort and ease… consider please… or that one will not be subject to significant misfortune in family, friends, charity, or church even… perhaps like others in my case: almost getting falsely witnessed with indefinite detainment … there’s all kinds of Scandal and rumors about the Dark Side of even the likes of Mother Teresa even for her charity? There’s even dark sides to what people are saying about venerable Fulton Sheen and that he allowed child molestation and sexual abuse to occur with his diocese when he was in New York?

But then we catholic Christian folk follow a leader and a lord and savior that had the greatest Scandal of the cross

At some level it seems like every human being is going to walk the face of this Earth no matter who you are will just get served up scandal …
 
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