Trusting in God alone

[BarbaraTherese]

ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.ii_1.ii.ii.vii.html
The docile soul will not seek to learn by what road God is conducting it.

What appears below is only a portion of the overall text found on the above link - not a lengthy text.

When God makes Himself the guide of a soul He exacts from it an absolute confidence in Him, and a freedom from any sort of disquietude as to the way in which He conducts it. This soul, therefore, is urged on without perceiving the path traced out before it. It does not imitate either what it has seen, or what it has read, but proceeds by its own action, and cannot do otherwise without grave risk. The divine action is ever fresh, it never retraces its steps, but always marks out new ways.

The cheeks of the spouse are compared to beds of flowers, to gardens filled with fragrant blossoms. The divine action is the gardener, admirably arranging the flower beds. This garden resembles no other, for among all the flowers there are no two alike, or that can be described as being of the same species, except in the fidelity with which they respond to the action of the Creator, in leaving Him free to do as He 61

pleases, and, on their side, obeying the laws imposed on them by their nature. Let God act, and let us do what He requires of us; this is the Gospel; this is the general Scripture, and the common law.

 

[Trishie]

Beautiful and insightful, Barb.

 

[the_phoenix]

It does not imitate either what it has seen, or what it has read, but proceeds by its own action, and cannot do otherwise without grave risk.

Well then, what about lectio divina? Inspiration from reading the Bible? The book called “Imitation of Christ”? And following the example of saints?

And even, what about the custom of “christening” or giving a child a Christian (saint’s) name at Baptism? Shouldn’t the child be given a unique name (say, Zeldomeer) and become a saint (Saint Zeldomeer) through trusting in God alone and through following God’s promptings?

I mean, I know we are all unique unrepeatable individual souls created by God, and yes, we ought to be open to inspirations of the Holy Spirit to our souls on a personal level … So what to make of all this?

~~ the phoenix

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Well then, what about lectio divina? Inspiration from reading the Bible? The book called “Imitation of Christ”? And following the example of saints?

And even, what about the custom of “christening” or giving a child a Christian (saint’s) name at Baptism? Shouldn’t the child be given a unique name (say, Zeldomeer) and become a saint (Saint Zeldomeer) through trusting in God alone and through following God’s promptings?

I mean, I know we are all unique unrepeatable individual souls created by God, and yes, we ought to be open to inspirations of the Holy Spirit to our souls on a personal level … So what to make of all this?

~~ the phoenix

Hello TP …It does not mean at all that all good books, Scripture, our traditions and customs etc., are cast aside. Rather that the promptings do not flow from these, rather directly from interior movements of The Holy Spirit to which the soul is sensitive. The soul is sensitive too to this type of Graced interior freedom as movements and inspiritations of The Holy Spirit. Indeed these interior movements will give deeper insight into good books, Scripture, teachings, customs etc., and hence deeper and insightful motives to follow them.
If anything it could be said to be the actual experienced realization of interior freedom or what Jesus said (John Chapter 8) “36 If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.”

The text reminds me of the words of Hymn at Night Prayer in the Divine Office “I cannot see the road ahead, but Thou now lead me on - I was not ever thus pride ruled my will - I loved to choose my path - but now Lord, Thou lead me on”.

Barb

 

[MarieVeronica]

The docile soul will not seek to learn by what road God is conducting it.

Greatly helpful, Barb. Thank you.

 

[Brian_Keith]

Beautiful insight, BarbaraTherese!

 

[ncjohn]

Well then, what about lectio divina? Inspiration from reading the Bible? The book called “Imitation of Christ”? And following the example of saints?

I would think that many of these things are the result of following docily. I pray because I feel called to pray. I study because I feel called to study, knowing that God will teach me what He feels I’m ready to hear. I look to the example of a particular saint because the Holy Spirit prompts me that such a lesson would be of service on my path.

I tend to think that early on we have to make the effort to position ourselves before God to listen, though of course even this we only do in cooperation with the promptings of God. As we become more in tune with Him, it becomes more natural to just act on the promptings in trust.

Peace,

 

[brigid12]

You can be sure, phoenix, that I still feel it’s a very good thing for me to try to follow the Little Flower, read Scripture, pray intercessory prayers, follow the Church’s teaching, etc. - those things the Holy Spirit has given me the prompting that it is good for me to do. I need to become a docile soul. It also means that the result will be totally individual. God “wants his chorus to sing in harmony, but not in unison”, as Peter Kreeft has written. Jesus’ seamless garment was made of many threads.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

You can be sure, phoenix, that I still feel it’s a very good thing for me to try to follow the Little Flower, read Scripture, pray intercessory prayers, follow the Church’s teaching, etc. - those things the Holy Spirit has given me the prompting that it is good for me to do. I need to become a docile soul. It also means that the result will be totally individual. God “wants his chorus to sing in harmony, but not in unison”, as Peter Kreeft has written. Jesus’ seamless garment was made of many threads.

Good observation, the way of Abandonment is a way and not the way to the exclusion of all others. We go where The Holy Spirit leads us, not where a book may tell us…and Abandonment to Divine Providence by de Caussade is in reality another classical spiritual work and it is describing in this thread the abandonement and guidance of a soul gifted with docility, who has followed the road of peaceful Abandonment to Divine Providence in all things regardless. It is a soul who has advanced along this way. The soul who is docile to The Holy Spirit with great sensitivity, no matter how it got there, does experience a great interior freedom and is not ‘driven’ - some follow rules nad regulations from a driven perspective as the “right thing to do” and are ‘driven’. - and dont get me wrong, this is right and good and it is a way amongst many ways…others are gifted with insight and choose in freedom to follow not a whole system as such, but what The Holy Spirit inspires, at this time this, at another time that.

I posted the text because it can be of great comfort to those unable to find spiritual directors … that one can trust in God with great confidence indeed. God never forsakes a soul striving for virtue and certainly not if they are unable to find a spiritual director. The more one trusts confidently and abandondedly, the more God gives reasons to be trustful and confident with abandonment…very good reasons. Certainly The Little Way of St. Therese can lead to the same kind of trustful confident abandonment which will be gifted, as she was if God is Willing, with docility.

Barb

 

[the_phoenix]

Many good thoughts here from BarbaraTherese, ncjohn, and brigid12.

Just got home from work and will contemplate your words while I get something to eat. Please know in advance that if I ask questions, it’s not meant in any spirit of debate in a bad sense, but rather from being someone who likes to analyze things (especially words and ideas) in order to better understand and learn. Thanks for your patience … Will write more to respond to you all soon.

~~ the phoenix

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Many good thoughts here from BarbaraTherese, ncjohn, and brigid12.

Just got home from work and will contemplate your words while I get something to eat. Please know in advance that if I ask questions, it’s not meant in any spirit of debate in a bad sense, but rather from being someone who likes to analyze things (especially words and ideas) in order to better understand and learn. Thanks for your patience … Will write more to respond to you all soon.

~~ the phoenix

… …

 

[the_phoenix]

Hello TP …It does not mean at all that all good books, Scripture, our traditions and customs etc., are cast aside. Rather that the promptings do not flow from these, rather directly from interior movements of The Holy Spirit to which the soul is sensitive. The soul is sensitive too to this type of Graced interior freedom as movements and inspiritations of The Holy Spirit. Indeed these interior movements will give deeper insight into good books, Scripture, teachings, customs etc., and hence deeper and insightful motives to follow them.
If anything it could be said to be the actual experienced realization of interior freedom or what Jesus said (John Chapter 8) “36 If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.”

The text reminds me of the words of Hymn at Night Prayer in the Divine Office “I cannot see the road ahead, but Thou now lead me on - I was not ever thus pride ruled my will - I loved to choose my path - but now Lord, Thou lead me on”.

Barb

Good greetings Barb,

You and I are in agreement. I suppose I just take issue with how that one particular sentence “It does not imitate either what it has seen, or what it has read, but proceeds by its own action, and cannot do otherwise without grave risk” is fitted within its paragraph, or it could be that I tend to interpret it more literally than other people.

An incident which comes to mind that substantiates your viewpoint …on following the promptings of the Holy Spirit even when you can’t see where He is leading you … is one that happened on May 1st maybe ten years ago. I was standing in line at a bank praying the Rosary in honor of it being the start of Mary’s month, when all of a sudden a strange urge hit me that I should stretch out both my arms and hold the Rosary right out in front of me so people could see it. Which definitely would mean that I would make a spectacle out of myself in a public place.

Not understanding, I raised my arms out in front of me and held the Rosary up in plain view. At that moment, the line moved. I turned a corner, and found myself coming face to face with a man wearing a Communist t-shirt in honor, apparently, of a more atheistic view of May Day. So there we were, facing off, his big bold colorful t-shirt against my outstretched Rosary. It felt, as we passed each other by, like visible symbols clashing on a spiritual battlefield.

~~ the phoenix

 

[the_phoenix]

I would think that many of these things are the result of following docily. I pray because I feel called to pray. I study because I feel called to study, knowing that God will teach me what He feels I’m ready to hear. I look to the example of a particular saint because the Holy Spirit prompts me that such a lesson would be of service on my path.

I tend to think that early on we have to make the effort to position ourselves before God to listen, though of course even this we only do in cooperation with the promptings of God. As we become more in tune with Him, it becomes more natural to just act on the promptings in trust.

Peace,

Dear ncjohn,

It appears that you’re reading the passage in a different way than I. And that maybe you, and BarbaraTherese, and brigid12, are more aware of the promptings of the Holy Spirit as being a cause of things which I take for granted. Or … Maybe our motives are different … For example, maybe you three do spiritual reading in the hopes of growth, whereas I do spiritual reading because I love reading. (But at least grace builds on nature?) So it could be that given varying degrees of purity of intention, the Holy Spirit can still work with us all, some of us at different levels of awareness than others.

Thank you for your valuable perspective.

~~ the phoenix

 

[the_phoenix]

You can be sure, phoenix, that I still feel it’s a very good thing for me to try to follow the Little Flower, read Scripture, pray intercessory prayers, follow the Church’s teaching, etc. - those things the Holy Spirit has given me the prompting that it is good for me to do. I need to become a docile soul. It also means that the result will be totally individual. God “wants his chorus to sing in harmony, but not in unison”, as Peter Kreeft has written. Jesus’ seamless garment was made of many threads.

Dear brigid,

Love that Peter Kreeft quote of yours. Particularly since at Mass, my vocal cords can’t quite hit all the notes of all the songs, so to compensate I’ll sometimes harmonize while those around me are singing the straight melody.

The riddle here seems to be that as individuals, the Holy Spirit leads us freely to imitate that which, if we merely imitated, would perhaps not lead us to be freer individuals following the Holy Spirit?

So close, and then it seems I go and start getting all confused again!

Meanwhile, great discussion.

~~ the phoenix

 

[BarbaraTherese]

You and I are in agreement. I suppose I just take issue with how that one particular sentence “It does not imitate either what it has seen, or what it has read, but proceeds by its own action, and cannot do otherwise without grave risk” is fitted within its paragraph, or it could be that I tend to interpret it more literally than other people.

Thank you for sharing your story:thumbsup:

It means that the person acts from internal motivation with great confidence that is not intellectual but an interior disposition. These movements (it goes without saying) are always in line with Faith and Morals and the Teachings of The Church etc. I think the “without grave risk” means that if one began to doubt, one would then become plagued ever more by doubts on many interior matters. One would in fact be doubting onself - sort of like (and an example only) feeling sure of something and denying one felt sure. The way of Abandonment to Divine Providence is the way of confident trust in all things in great Peace and abandoned Faith. The next Chapter gives more insight:
ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.ii_1.ii.ii.viii.html

I dont think it is something that can be reasoned out and explained in full as an intellectual exercise…for the full insight and understanding etc., it is necessary to live it out. It is necessary to begin to walk in confident trust and abandoned Faith in God in all things - and then The Lord grants more and more assurances. The more one trusts and abandons onself, the more reason granted to trust. I was first introduced to the way of Faith and Abandonment by my priest confessor director over 30 years ago now (he is now dec’d)…then some years later I came across de Caussade’s work and I understood even more.

I am fairly confident I read somewhere that St. Therese of Lisieux was probably familiar with the work - the Little Way of St. Therese has great similarities to the way of Abandonment, although she does explain it in far simpler terms. (I heard a Carmelite priest and an expert on St. Therese speak in Carmel at the time St. Therese was declared a doctor of The Church…sometimes I cannot recall if I read something, or it was in Father’s talk )

Mind you, the way of Abandonment is often too the way of great suffering and many interior sufferings also.

Barb

 

[ncjohn]

I suppose I just take issue with how that one particular sentence “It does not imitate either what it has seen, or what it has read, but proceeds by its own action, and cannot do otherwise without grave risk” is fitted within its paragraph, or it could be that I tend to interpret it more literally than other people.

Hi phoenix,

I think I read that as saying that we aren’t trying to “imitate” what another has experienced in their journey, but using their experiences to affirm what our own unique journey is. Each of us is called to “proceed by its own action”, to carry out the unique part of God’s plan that is ours to carry out.

As a Franciscan, I greatly admire St. Francis and have read a great deal about him. I cannot BE St. Francis though, nor should I be trying to be. Instead I can look at his devotion and his way of life and trust that the Holy Spirit will show me how to apply them to my own journey. As Barb once told me, “don’t try to be Francis because then God wouldn’t have His beloved John.”

I don’t have to go barefoot or find a colony of lepers to minister to. But I can allow myself to be led to show compassionate to the “lepers” I encounter in my own life. I don’t necessarily have to beg for my food, but I have to learn how to not be attached to my possessions and to be williing to share them with those with need, to be a good st.

If I try to imitate Francis exactly, I will not be true to who God made me to be and will not accomplish the purpose for which He put John on this earth. That would put me at grave risk as I would not be listening to the guidance the Spirit is providing and I would be likely ignoring what Godis asking of me.

I don’t know that my interpretation is at all what the author was addressing, or that I’ve done a very good job of explaining it, but it’s worth every cent that you paid for it.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi phoenix,

I think I read that as saying that we aren’t trying to “imitate” what another has experienced in their journey, but using their experiences to affirm what our own unique journey is. Each of us is called to “proceed by its own action”, to carry out the unique part of God’s plan that is ours to carry out.

As a Franciscan, I greatly admire St. Francis and have read a great deal about him. I cannot BE St. Francis though, nor should I be trying to be. Instead I can look at his devotion and his way of life and trust that the Holy Spirit will show me how to apply them to my own journey. As Barb once told me, “don’t try to be Francis because then God wouldn’t have His beloved John.”

I don’t have to go barefoot or find a colony of lepers to minister to. But I can allow myself to be led to show compassionate to the “lepers” I encounter in my own life. I don’t necessarily have to beg for my food, but I have to learn how to not be attached to my possessions and to be williing to share them with those with need, to be a good st.

If I try to imitate Francis exactly, I will not be true to who God made me to be and will not accomplish the purpose for which He put John on this earth. That would put me at grave risk as I would not be listening to the guidance the Spirit is providing and I would be likely ignoring what Godis asking of me.

I don’t know that my interpretation is at all what the author was addressing, or that I’ve done a very good job of explaining it, but it’s worth every cent that you paid for it.

Excellent explanation, John:thumbsup: …and I loved the closing paragraph, although I had to read it a couple of times to understand - one of those ‘senior’s days’ ahead for m I think!

Good to catch up with you again, my friend…Barb

 

[the_phoenix]

The way of Abandonment to Divine Providence is the way of confident trust in all things in great Peace and abandoned Faith. The next Chapter gives more insight:
ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.ii_1.ii.ii.viii.html

Barb

Many thanks for providing the link to DeCaussade’s “Abandonment to Divine Providence.” I’ve made it a favorite.

A book called “Providence” that I like is authored by Garrigou-Lagrange. In fact, he has a chapter called “PART IV : SELF-ABANDONMENT TO PROVIDENCE” in which he refers to DeCaussade.

ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/PROVID.HTM

DeCaussade sounds wonderful too, and I look forward to some good reading.

~~ the phoenix

 

[the_phoenix]

As a Franciscan, I greatly admire St. Francis and have read a great deal about him. I cannot BE St. Francis though, nor should I be trying to be. Instead I can look at his devotion and his way of life and trust that the Holy Spirit will show me how to apply them to my own journey. As Barb once told me, “don’t try to be Francis because then God wouldn’t have His beloved John.”

…

If I try to imitate Francis exactly, I will not be true to who God made me to be and will not accomplish the purpose for which He put John on this earth. That would put me at grave risk as I would not be listening to the guidance the Spirit is providing and I would be likely ignoring what Godis asking of me.

Here is a quote from a book called “God’s Fool - The Life and Times of Francis of Assisi” by Julien Green:

“So John put on the habit of a Franciscan, and from then on he applied himself to imitating Francis as faithfully as possible. It was, he thought, the surest way to become a good friar. If he saw Francis genuflect, he did too. He went so far as to copy all of Francis’s gestures. If Francis raised his hands to heaven and sighed while praying, he could be certain that two steps behind him John the Simple would be raising his hands to heaven and sighing in exactly the same way. Francis, who had immediately taken a liking to him, was amused at first, but finally got tired of this scrupulous mimicry; and one day he reprimanded him. “Father,” said John the Simple, “I have promised to do whatever you may do, and that’s what I want, to do what you do.” In the face of this ingenuous soul, uncorrupted by the world, Francis gave in. Besides, John was becoming so obviously holy that one could only admire him in silence. Not long afterward, around 1213, he died. His religious life, as brief as it was perfect, left an enduring memory. When Francis spoke of him, he felt, not sadness, but a marvelous joy; he always called him Saint John.”

~~ p. 137

Apologies for not finding this quote on the internet, I have an old-fashioned hardcopy book.

So in light of our discussion, what do we make of this?

~~ the phoenix

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Many thanks for providing the link to DeCaussade’s “Abandonment to Divine Providence.” I’ve made it a favorite.

A book called “Providence” that I like is authored by Garrigou-Lagrange. In fact, he has a chapter called “PART IV : SELF-ABANDONMENT TO PROVIDENCE” in which he refers to DeCaussade.

ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/PROVID.HTM

DeCaussade sounds wonderful too, and I look forward to some good reading.

~~ the phoenix

… …Abandonment to DP would have to be my most referred to work in later years for sure. I have read Fr. Lagrange also and another excellent author. He wrote Three Ways of The Spiritual Life, which I have read. “Providence” is new to me and I will be having a look at it:thumbsup:

Barb