Proud Ex catholic banner? Sorry that you see it that way. Since I refused your invitation to empty my heart and open it for a new understanding of Catholicism, you start to belittle me with sarcasm and accusations. No problem. This is a Catholics forum and not a Muslims forum so I uderstand that my views will not always be welcome here.
I think for the most part I have been respectful - not insulted Catholic beliefs, simply stated why Muslims believe what they believe and why I am convinved that Islam is the truth while striving to follow the command of my Creator:
***And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.” (Quran 29:46)
So Augustine - can I ask you how you reconcile the “sons of God” and “begotten son of God?”
Thank you, Katie
Can I interject here, even though I’m not Catholic? I don’t want to comment on the questions posed to Augustine (since I’m not him, and they don’t interest me anyway), but I do think that this post illustrates something very interesting about Muslim-Christian relations, particularly as concerns the passages in the Qur’an that appear to positively appraise Christians. (It is also something I have noticed that has strong parallels in
Orthodox-Catholic relations, though I’ll leave it to the reader to see where those are, as that is technically outside of the scope of the thread.)
As in the above passage, there are other parts of the Qur’an that claim to reference the Christians of Muhammad’s day and region. One of my favorites is 5:82 (Surat al-Maidah), which says in part that those who are “nearest in love” to the Muslims are the Christians, “because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.” (Yusuf Ali translation)
I highlight this because there are many subsequent Muslims who have therefore made the claim that the “original” or true Christians were those who followed Muhammad, while the rest of Christianity was polluted (by Paul, by Constantine, by Nicaea…take your pick). Therefore the best “Christians” are actually
Muslims, and there are none proclaiming themselves today to be Christians who fit the description provided in Surat al-Maidah.
Existing as I do in the native Middle Eastern Church of monastic tradition
par excellence (Christian monasticism having begun in Egypt), it is easy enough to find legions of Coptic Orthodox people both inside and outside of the monasteries who by their embrace of Christianity itself have renounced the world and are not arrogant. So that’s neither here nor there, i.e., it doesn’t mean anything to me to have the Qur’an affirm that we are closest to Muslims by virtue of having renounced the world and being humble, as we as a Church (and not only in Egypt) had done that centuries before Muhammad or the Qur’an ever existed (not because we’re so great, but because both of these things are foundational principles of Christianity itself; “take up your cross and follow Me”). But at the same time, I suspect that it means a lot to
Muslims that their book says this. It is, after all, a positive thing to say, and provides a sort of Qur’anic basis for at least cordial relationships with Christians (or, perhaps, at least the Christians of Muhammad’s day, as the Qur’an reported their behavior and attitudes).
So I think there is a sense in which this most positive thing actually harms or makes more difficult Muslim-Christian relations, as it creates an atmosphere where positive reactions and relations of a very certain kind are perhaps expected and yet usually don’t materialize. They don’t materialize for several reasons, as illustrated very nicely by Katie and Augustine’s exchange:
(1) Muslims think they are being respectful in calling people to the “right path” (Islam);
(2) Muslims think that Christians should feel close(r) to them by virtue of the fact that the Qur’an says this or that nice thing about Christians, Jesus, the Theotokos, etc. (or for other reasons)
(3) Points 1 and 2 don’t matter, because Christians who are convinced of their religion only see how Islam denies core doctrines of Christianity, and hence is unacceptable and false (and vice versa, for that matter; Christians attempting to convert Muslims often make similar mistakes, e.g. comparing Muhammad to Jesus and then wondering why this displeases and turns off Muslims).
(cont’d. below)
Firstly, because such statements are not always explicitly made in the NT (because it was already believed), but rather the belief was the springboard for explaining God’s will for us.