Truth and Salvation

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Going to answering-Islam for information about Muhammad is like going to chick dot com for information on Catholicism.

In both instances you will only read the most negative viewpoint possible on the subject.
 
Hello,

Message to the coptics:

Im not here to prosyletize. Being respectful as a Muslim guest on a Catholic forum and expecting to be treated respectfully in return has nothing to do with our respective beliefs and everything to do with basic human decency.

I am happy that I can be part of that .001% of Muslim guests at these forums who doesn’t hold to the notion that the Christians mentioned in the Quran are not the same as Christians today or that those mentioned in the Quran actually believed in our beloved Prophet Muhammad - peace and blessings of Allah be upon him - all this according to what you Dzheremi have stated.

And just because I love posting aayaat for my daleel, here you go:
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you ( Muhammad) until you follow their religion. Say, “Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance.” If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper. ( Quran 2:120) ***
make sure to point out the gaping holes in Islam and refuse to let one’s interlocutors play games.
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Let’s see who’s playing games here …
 
Katie_Kilbane said:
Are you saying that 70 % percent of Catholics don’t go to Mass weekly becuase they don’t understand church teachings? So they are more or less Catholic because of family tradition and identity (like I was)… thanks for the statistic, I will look into it further.

Well since this thread topic is “Truth and Salvation” I wanted to ask how do Catholics interpret the following verses and how do these verses support their church teachings?

I took it from new revised standard version of the bible.

thank you.​

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I don’t think I stuttered. We don’t need to keep confirming easily obtainable stats.

Your question is related to the stats, no? Narrow path, 30% making at least a weekly effort.

But, a key piece of understanding is that asking what a Catholic thinks is the wrong question, though you might get the right answer.

The right question is what does the Church teach about the passage because the Church is the authority on the subject, where individual Catholics might error due to lack of understanding.

That said, assuming Jesus is God and speaks truth, is there really a lot to confuse in that passage? It points to the fact that the path to God is not easy, not something that will seem satisfying in our nature, but with divine help will be glorious, though others might look at us and choose otherwise.
 
Survey In Soteriology

Hello, I am a graduate student of theology and I’m producing a qualitative research paper in soteriology (study of religious doctrines of salvation). In adding to my research, I have produced a survey consisting of a series of unbiased and simple questions. This survey will not be a comparison of soteriology between various denominations, rather, the goal will be to obtain information on different individual beliefs of salvation within individual denominations. In this survey I will not ask for any names or personal information. However, I will ask some general questions about your faith and location by which anyone taking this survey is not required to answer. This survey will strive not to ask leading questions, nor will the survey be used as a platform to prosthelytize or argue any particular theology. This survey will not be used to embarrass or will single out any individuals responding to the survey as the collective results and analysis, not the data itself, will be published within the research. Please feel free to respond to this survey over open forum or email your responses to me. I thank you for your time and honesty. I believe this survey will help greatly in guiding the path of my research. God Bless

Instructions: Please write the answer (a-d) near each question of the survey. Thank you for your time.
Part I: Questions About You
  1. _____ What is your denomination?

    a. Catholic

    b. Protestant

    c. Evangelical

    d. Other
  2. ____ How often do you read the Bible?

    a. Frequently (daily to weekly)

    b. Often (weekly to monthly)

    c. Sometimes (monthly to only on special occasions)

    d. Never
  3. ____ Please Rate the knowledge of your faith

    a. Teacher or Elder

    b. Good understanding

    c. Little understanding

    d. No understanding
Part II: Questions of Faith
  1. ____ Does God Exist?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  2. ____ Is Jesus Christ the Son of God?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  3. ____ Is Jesus Christ a requirement for salvation?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  4. ____ Is Jesus Christ the only requirement for salvation?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  5. ____ Does heaven exist?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  6. ____ If yes, is heaven a permanent destination?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  7. ____ Does hell exist?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  8. ____ If yes, is hell a permanent destination?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  9. ____ Is salvation possible for those of a faith other than your own?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  10. ____ Is salvation possible for those of a non-Christian faith?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
  11. ____ Is salvation possible for those of no faith?
    a. Yes

    b. No

    c. Maybe

    d. I don’t know
 
ffg said:
I don’t think I stuttered. We don’t need to keep confirming easily obtainable stats.

Your question is related to the stats, no? Narrow path, 30% making at least a weekly effort.

.
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Okay no need to be rude about it - I said thank you for the stats and that I would look into it further…
ffg said:
Your question is related to the stats, no? Narrow path, 30% making at least a weekly effort.
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No the stats stuff was off thread topic (truth and salvation) so my question was an attempt to bring it back to the topic. Are you saying that Narrow path = one weekly mass at the very least? Doesn’t sound to difficult.
ffg said:
But, a key piece of understanding is that asking what a Catholic thinks is the wrong question, though you might get the right answer.

The right question is what does the Church teach about the passage because the Church is the authority on the subject, where individual Catholics might error due to lack of understanding.

.
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okie doke - from now on I will clarify my questions by directing them to those with knowledge of or access (links) to church teachings. There seem to be plenty of them here. and if you don’t know the answer or don’t want to provide a reference then you don’t have to reply. There is so much on the internet and I don’t want to use a wrong source according to catholic teachings which is why I ask for theinfo or references here - like taking it straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
ffg said:
That said, assuming Jesus is God and speaks truth, is there really a lot to confuse in that passage? It points to the fact that the path to God is not easy, not something that will seem satisfying in our nature, but with divine help will be glorious, though others might look at us and choose otherwise.
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Jesus never (explicitly) says he is God - not in that passage or any other gospel passage that I know of. That assumption is from your church teachings.

I understand they were formulated before the scripture was gathered or compiled but I’ve also been told that what was chosen for the canon supports church teachings.

Going to church once a week seems pretty easy to me. Believing that Jesus redeemed you for your sins through his crucifixion doesn’t require alot of effort or control. Eating his flesh and drinking his blood is not difficult to do either as long as it is in the form of a wafer and wine…

Official catholic views on “narrow path” or “strait gate” is not even so much of a concern to me as what comes after in the verses:

**“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.” **

PS: Nice attempt to finagle the word “satisfied” in there, LOL
 
Matthew_Light said:
Going to answering-Islam for information about Muhammad is like going to chick dot com for information on Catholicism.

In both instances you will only read the most negative viewpoint possible on the subject.
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Why do you have such an unfavourable opinion of Answering Islam?

My linking to articles at the site is not in any way an endorsement of everything posted there. Some of the articles are very good, however, and CAF readers and lurkers deserve to be made aware of them.

I invite you or anyone else to examine the particular Answering Islam links I have given in this thread and explain how these articles are so off-base (if they are found to be so). Separate threads would probably be appropriate for this purpose.
 
So most Catholics believe in teachings that they can’t understand.
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ffg said:
No. Most Catholics don’t understand the teachings, .
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So what about BELIEF?

Let’s try again: **Most Catholics don’t understand the teachings they profess to believe in. ** HOW’S THAT?

Practicle examples:
  • “I believe in Trinity but I can’t understand it.” (it’s a mystery)
“I believe that wafers and wine are actually transformed into flesh and blood of Christ who is God but I can’t understand how.” (it’s a mystery)*
 
Katie_Kilbane said:
So what about BELIEF?

Let’s try again: **Most Catholics don’t understand the teachings they profess to believe in. ** HOW’S THAT?

Practicle examples:
  • “I believe in Trinity but I can’t understand it.” (it’s a mystery)
“I believe that wafers and wine are actually transformed into flesh and blood of Christ who is God but I can’t understand how.” (it’s a mystery)*
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What I understand FFG to have meant is the following: most Catholics, not practicing their faith with dedication, do not know much about it. In the sense that they could not accurately state the teachings of their Church, as you have done in this post.

Worth pointing out, just for the record, is the absurdity of rejecting a doctrine for being illogical. One only need await the arrival on the scene of an individual with a sufficiently powerful intellect who can grasp the difficult concept and make it accessible to the average person–at which point, the objection of “this idea is incomprehensible” becomes moot.

Christians believe in the trinity, which Muslims find nonsensical. However, many/most Muslims believe in the eternal preexistence of the Qur’an in the presence of Allah, which should be just as much of a tough nut to crack for Christians, Muslims, and everyone else.
 
Trebor135 said:
What I understand FFG to have meant is the following: most Catholics, not practicing their faith with dedication, do not know much about it. In the sense that they could not accurately state the teachings of their Church, as you have done in this post.
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Okay, so you (and FFG) see it as a matter of practicing faith with dedication. Not a matter of understanding the core pillars of catholic beliefs. Then let me ask, can a Christian practice his/her faith with dedication regardless if he/she understands (or comprehends) the foundation of Catholic teachings?
Trebor135 said:
Worth pointing out, just for the record, is the absurdity of rejecting a doctrine for being illogical. One only need await the arrival on the scene of an individual with a sufficiently powerful intellect who can grasp the difficult concept and make it accessible to the average person–at which point, the objection of “this idea is incomprehensible” becomes moot. Christians believe in the trinity, which Muslims find nonsensical. However, many/most Muslims believe in the eternal preexistence of the Qur’an in the presence of Allah, which should be just as much of a tough nut to crack for Christians, Muslims, and everyone else.
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One of the special gifts the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was graced with was jawami al-kalim – speech that was concise, yet comprehensive and full of meaning. A speech that suffices both the individual with a powerful intellect and the average person alike.

Studying the Quran is the most noble science of all Islaamic Sciences. Prophet Muhammad said: *“The best of you is he who learns the Qur’an and teaches it." * There are numerous books of Tafseer (exegesis) containing thorough explanations with chains of narrations going back to the Prophet and/or his companions.

Muslims World wide have the same copy of the Mushaf (Arabic Qur’an in book form) which they read, recite, memorize, study, and contemplate.

Millions of Muslims all over the world from young to old, of different tongues and nationalities, have memorized the Quran in Arabic (and in totality) word for word, living by its Commandments and abstaining from all that it forbids.

And just for the record, the act of pursuing religious knowledge is very commendable in Islam. It is not at all absurd to reject a doctrine that is illogical, if said doctrine is one from which we will form the foundation of our belief. Muslims don’t need to wait for some individual with high caliber intellect and silver tongue to make the understanding and beauty of the Quran accessible to us. It is the easily accessible, ultimate authoritative guide by which we structure our daily lives in total submission to the will of the Creator - a submission born out of deep love and yearning to meet Him while He is pleased with us.

If we act upon the precepts of the Quran with sure knowledge and sincerity to God, it will lead us to our salvation.
 
Trebor135 said:
👍

Yes. I also provided links at which the author cites and responds to the kind of game-playing I have in mind: see post #53.
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Look, I’m not going to visit those links okay. I don’t play games when it comes to matters of faith. - that simple.
 
Katie_Kilbane said:
So what about BELIEF?

Let’s try again: **Most Catholics don’t understand the teachings they profess to believe in. ** HOW’S THAT?

Practicle examples:
  • “I believe in Trinity but I can’t understand it.” (it’s a mystery)
“I believe that wafers and wine are actually transformed into flesh and blood of Christ who is God but I can’t understand how.” (it’s a mystery)*
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Most Catholics that I know are ignorant of their faith. They call themselves Catholics because they were born into the faith. Most don’t even know something as basic as what the ten commandments are. They don’t have the drive or passion to study their faith. They acknowledge yet they don’t care that missing mass on Sundays is a mortal sin.
 
Quote:
submission born out of deep love and yearning to meet Him while He is pleased with us.
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If we act upon the precepts of the _____ with sure knowledge and sincerity to God, it will lead us to our salvation.
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LOOOOOL! Whats wrong Gary - you afraid to write QURAN??? Is it a SIN??? Will writing it lead you astray? Oh my goodness - that is about the strangest thing I have ever seen from a Christian while in discourse - Anyhoo…

Same as below, no?
can a Christian practice his/her faith with dedication regardless if he/she understands (or comprehends) the foundation of Catholic teachings?
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No. (Unless Im missing something here)

For Muslims it is acting upon what we believe in with SURE KNOWLEDGE (i.e.understanding) of the doctrines/concepts that form the foundations of our faith.

I was asking if a Christian - Catholic, can practice his/her faith sincerely dedicated - regardless if they have sure knowledge (i.e.understanding) of the doctrines/concepts that form the foundations of their faith.
 
Welcome to the forum, I hope in some way that a greater interfaith friendship and understanding develops.
Katie Kilbane;
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the first three reasons you cite are reasons that contributed to my leaving Catholicism, particularly the historical evidence as that is most often based in hard facts.
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In 2009 I had the privilege to go to Jerusalem, and stand by the Wailing Wall or Western Wall, it is part of a huge structure called the Temple Mount, which is a sacred place to the Jews Christians and Muslims. Abraham was said to have offered his son as a sacrifice in the region of Mount Moriah. It is also were Solomon was commanded to build the Temple on Mount Moriah to house the Ark of the Covenant, (the Ten Commandments) it is where Jesus worshiped. The Temple was destroyed and rebuilt, then destroyed again and the Islamic Dome of the Rock is built were Solomon’s Temple once stood. The Dome is said to be the place where the prophet pbuh, ascended up to heaven to meet all the other prophets, associated with Abraham, Moses, Solomon, and Jesus.

When you look above the Wailing Wall, you see the golden dome of ‘The Dome of the Rock Mosque, and the Al Aqsa sacred to Islam. You queue up to go up to the mosque from the Jewish side, there is a sign that says – God is always present here. By this sign are Israeli Police with guns, and their riot shields are stacked against the wall ready for use.

It seems that God has brought all three religions together on one huge monument and in so many ways, it seems to be a place to search for God rather than religion.

God could have made our lives much easier if he had placed our three religions a hundred miles apart, but it seems that God has some greater purpose by bringing all three religions together in one place.

Today there is tension in Jerusalem, most of the Christian holy places are within the walls of the Muslim Community, and this is surrounded by the Jews.

But why has God brought all these three religions together in this one place, and in so many ways, we are obviously so different?

Justice and peace on Earth depends on us trying to understand and do God’s will; despite all our differences. The bottom line should be that all land belongs to God, we are all but temporary custodians, somehow we should seek to share all things as they were given to us by God and they belong to God.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of One God

Eric
 
Katie_Kilbane said:
LOOOOOL! Whats wrong Gary - you afraid to write QURAN??? Is it a SIN??? Will writing it lead you astray? Oh my goodness - that is about the strangest thing I have ever seen from a Christian while in discourse - Anyhoo…
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LOL, No, look, see “Quran” 😛 Sometimes I think we create our own double standard. 🙂
 
Augustine3 said:
Most Catholics that I know are ignorant of their faith. They call themselves Catholics because they were born into the faith. Most don’t even know something as basic as what the ten commandments are. They don’t have the drive or passion to study their faith. They acknowledge yet they don’t care that missing mass on Sundays is a mortal sin.
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Thanks for your honesty Augustine.

Coming from a large Irish Italian Catholic family I have observed the same thing. I think that most people (no matter which faith they belong to) are deceived by the life of this world and direct their innate nature/desire to “worship” onto temporary enjoyments annd over indulge in earthly delights.

The Arabic word for worship is *Ibaadah *- literaly it means “slavery” Technically it means “enslaving one self to the heart’s object of worship wiith humility and submission.” When the heart’s object of worship is the Almighty Creator, then true and correct Ibaadah occurs. (This is why in the Quran righteous worshippers are referred to as “slaves of Allaah”). but sadly enough, the accursed one has enticed many people away from the worship of the Creator to the worship of the created.

The first words quoted of Jesus recorded in Matthews Gospel attest to this:

**Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; 9 and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! for it is written,
‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.’”**
 
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