Truth in painting?

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levinas12 said:
Painting, music, poetry, drama and all art are “truthful” in a deep sense - these “productions” disclose worlds. Take Heidegger’s analysis of Van Gogh’s painting of a pair (?) of old leather work boots. The painting discloses, according to Heidegger, the world of a German peasant woman in late autumn harvesting potatoes (I think).

I know Derrida has a problem with this analysis because Heidegger argues that the painting discloses “truth”. And Derrida has his own peculiar take on “truth”. But we can’t get into that here. And Derrida’s problem is not simply whether the painting depicts a pair of shoes.

Derrida strives to subvert any definitive disclosure.

On the contrary, I think art displays truth. World disclosure is a nice way of summarizing such truth.

We have to be careful not to think of world disclosure as representation of a fact or a particular object (as you might find in a careless photo). No, art shows us how it is with Being at some historical moment. As such, art does not express a self or a feeling - does not “express” anythingl that is “inside” someone. It’s a matter of a world that is already “outside”, you might even say, “transcendent” in the sense that any particular individual, e.g., peasant woman, is embedded in it. “Transcendent” here does not any straightforward theological connotations).
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So, “true” art discloses something “true” about Being? You mention Being at some moment… Do you feel that Being changes in its nature or quality? Is the truth of art to do with its contemporaneity, it plausibility as a real expression in its social and historical context (even if the art itself depicts something outside of that context)?

Is there a work of art which can be identified as a metaphysical lie?
 
Qoeleth said:
So, “true” art discloses something “true” about Being? You mention Being at some moment… Do you feel that Being changes in its nature or quality? Is the truth of art to do with its contemporaneity, it plausibility as a real expression in its social and historical context (even if the art itself depicts something outside of that context)?

Is there a work of art which can be identified as a metaphysical lie?
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Heidegger, for example, talks about an ancient Greek temple opening up an historical world. There is a bit of Hegel here.

The “effect” of the Greek temple disclosure, however, may not be confined just to one historical moment. We can appropriate it. But such an appropriation would highlight that the old gods have fled (Holderlin).
 
FurtherSuntime said:
I’m just seeing above now for the first time and have a quick newsflash…the boots don’t belong to anyone person as all the so called pros are saying… but to gender…the one is obviously male and the other female…what is going on with this world…the one boot even has a type of dress like female apparel…how could this possibly be missed…

the boots are showing a finish in life…its over and in the background the workers are in their new dimension. I could really go on with this one…see the eye in the male boot half way up looking at the viewer…anyway thats the first step…and then looking as well qualifying the first step while looking in different ways…maybe tom I will continue…these things never can be rushed
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Very interesting analysis!!
 
levinas12 said:
Very interesting analysis!!
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I’m looking at your posts and don’t think theres much comprehension in the world of art…

BTW…a German philosopher is the last philosopher who I would pick to evaluate art…no doubt about that…if no one here knows why, well then what can I say?
 
FurtherSuntime said:
I’m looking at your posts and don’t think theres much comprehension in the world of art…

BTW…a German philosopher is the last philosopher who I would pick to evaluate art…no doubt about that…if no one here knows why, well then what can I say?
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But why such animus?
 
levinas12 said:
But why such animus?
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I’m not responsible for the special talents and abilities which have emerged and developed over thousands of years…if this is something your not willing to include in the scheme of this subject…its not my fault…

so…I just made a possible verification…both boots show natural wear over a long period of time…the wear is showing either two rights or two lefts…therefore I would say I am close to being very accurate in saying the boots belong to two different people…my guess from the outset right off was were dealing with contrast…now then contrast contrast…man-women look at those boots one is male the other female…the female open and willing with that flap not seen in the more closed male…they are a couple…the rest of the shoes are back in the light…( I should get paid for this
 
Qoeleth said:
So, “true” art discloses something “true” about Being? You mention Being at some moment… Do you feel that Being changes in its nature or quality? Is the truth of art to do with its contemporaneity, it plausibility as a real expression in its social and historical context (even if the art itself depicts something outside of that context)?

Is there a work of art which can be identified as a metaphysical lie?
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For Heidegger, “Being” reveals itself in different ways at different times.

Hegel also describes a history of “Being”. But, for Hegel, this history has a final destination (which is quasi-biblical and possibly heretical). It’s not clear to what extent particular human beings are absorbed into the Absolute Spirit at the end of history, i.e., lose their personal identities. And it is also not clear whether the Absolute Spirit is a Spirit of Love (a la Benedict XVI).

Heidegger does not assign a final destination to the history of Being.

A bad work of art may not be telling the truth. This never happens with a good work of art.
 
This is beautiful…the eye at the masculine boot is the painter himself…hes looking right at you from the grave…what an ego WOW…( you guys don’t understand art at all…socks boots shoes, feet…they are import for many reasons
 
FurtherSuntime said:
I’m not responsible for the special talents and abilities which have emerged and developed over thousands of years…if this is something your not willing to include in the scheme of this subject…its not my fault…

so…I just made a possible verification…both boots show natural wear over a long period of time…the wear is showing either two rights or two lefts…therefore I would say I am close to being very accurate in saying the boots belong to two different people…my guess from the outset right off was were dealing with contrast…now then contrast contrast…man-women look at those boots one is male the other female…the female open and willing with that flap not seen in the more closed male…they are a couple…the rest of the shoes are back in the light…( I should get paid for this
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So, you are a covert Derridean after all! I suspected as much.
 
levinas12 said:
Why, pray tell, is it always a bad idea?
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Good question…because the idea is climb inside my world…now if the mind has anything in it…how can it be open for the story…a person cannot tell a good night story to a toddler who has anything at all on the mind…thats the idea to empty the mind, let the story take over…if your looking…well thats a treasure hunt because regardless the search will be effected by unconscious longings and biased social expectations already in place, peculiar to the looker and therefore a big interference .
 
FurtherSuntime said:
Good question…because the idea is climb inside my world…now if the mind has anything in it…how can it be open for the story…a person cannot tell a good night story to a toddler who has anything at all on the mind…thats the idea to empty the mind, let the story take over…if your looking…well thats a treasure hunt because regardless the search will be effected by unconscious longings already in place, peculiar to the looker and therefore biased in a very large way…
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It is not a matter of unconscious longings peculiar to the “looker”.

We as a community have an historical world in common - it is public, not private. It has definite contours (the philosophical word for this is horizon).

But most of the time we are unaware of our world. We live it but we do not thematise it.

Art helps to disclose our world to us.
 
levinas12 said:
It is not a matter of unconscious longings peculiar to the “looker”.

We as a community have an historical world in common - it is public, not private. It has definite contours (the philosophical word for this is horizon).

But most of the time we are unaware of our world. We live it but we do not thematise it.

Art helps to disclose our world to us.
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Its everything in the mind and I added expectations in the social, I think you missed that…everyone has unique expectations from the social…its got to go, the invitation is to bring your inner being and walk with me…thats the deal

Yes art helps disclose the world to us…because…it offers another experience…we become verified with it by knowing…“another abstract potencial exists”…do you see this important point?..rather then trying to debunk with something irrelevent…

Back to the boots…

continuing with comments already made and seem good to go for now…

this painter has found a way toward immortality as long as that painting is looked at…he is waiting and joining mankind until the end…( the light-some in the background…this is the chief meaning. I don’t know a thing about his life but believe that women in the other boot would be his main squeeze in mind…it could be his daughter or any female he felt he had a soul connection with…the female boot is telling us exactly who it is…by a connection which is specific…I don’t want to go any further with that presently and keep true to emptying the mind with only a small acknowledgement in this possible finding…the laces on the male boot ( right toward bottom offer guess what…time…it is in the form of a pocket watch or clock and consistent with the theme in the idea…the clock is not firmed up at this point however and tossed aside as only a mild possibility
 
JesuisSean said:
TRUTH can be found in Leonardo da Vinci’s Madonna of the Rocks paintings.

I personally discovered a fascinating outcome if you overlay the two versions of Madonna of the Rocks in an alternating fashion. This can be found at my outersecrets website.

outersecrets.com/real/image/forum/davinci3.gif

My GIF Animation is also accessible at Wikipedia via en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_of_the_Rocks
See ( Links - flashing overlay of the versions ) at bottom of page.

To understand the meaning of it, you have to be able to understand how the good beats the evil via passing information back and forth across time, thus knowing why the cross appears and disappears, why the lower babies hair appears and disappears, why the halo’s appear and disappear, etc., etc.
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FurtherSuntime said:
Well thats amazing but now you have taken over control and are the artist by manipulating work done…therefore the solid evidence suggests its your finding alone in whatever you wish to express.
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I see your catching on.
 
looking at philosophical writings in general I think prof philosophers are out of their league when it comes to art. I see them as less intellectually capable then a genuine creative.
 
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