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billcu1
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What is truth that has been removed from time? Has Jesus tried to bring it back? Can truth be observed like beauty according to aesthetics?
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D_Martin
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Jesus is the Truth, and how is it that He is observed?What is truth that has been removed from time? Has Jesus tried to bring it back? Can truth be observed like beauty according to aesthetics?
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mrcruz117
Guest
Truth that has been removed from time. Are you talking about truths that have become false since their discovery?What is truth that has been removed from time? Has Jesus tried to bring it back? Can truth be observed like beauty according to aesthetics?
Your second question sounds a little like an appeal to relativism. Truth is by definition perfect because it can be equated with the divine. after all, Jesus did call himself the truth. In this respect, truth is nor more “aesthetically beautiful” than a perfect score on an exam. While the two are desirable, they don’t tickle our senses like fine art or a great piece of music.
I am prepared to be wrong on this but it seems like rating truth on a scale of aesthetic beauty leads to truth being different from half truth only by degree instead of kind. But we all know that a half truth is a full lie, not a “lesser truth”.
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Michael19682
Guest
Jesus said that he spoke only what he knew or heard from the father in heaven. Your question about truth being observed like beauty must be answered “yes” categorically because God can do anything. Many people say “relax” “be calm, still” and “it is what it is”. For others the truth is very unsettling and they cannot simply rest, relax, be calm, and they hope it isn’t what it is. Romans 8:19
Destiny of Glory.* 18I consider that the sufferings of this present time are as nothing compared with the glory to be revealed for us.n 19For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God; 20for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it,o in hope 21that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God.p 22We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now;q
Whatever it is that creation is in labor pains until now, that is it which is removed from truth in time. If we say it is the body of Christ, then there is no real removal in time because he was incarnate of the virgin Mary by the holy Spirit. In other words, labor pains belonged to Mary, who also knew the truth from the archangel Gabriel. If Paul is taken figuratively, and the body of Chirst on earth is all men and women, then the labor pains could possibly be understood by “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”. In other words, God’s spirit has given incarnation to man in the womb of creation, but he hasn’t yet been born to fulfill his mission which is to draw all things to himself. Abundant life in that sense would be the baptising of all men, acts of charity, kindness and the formation of true brotherhood among all.
It sounds all neat and tidy. But Jesus speaks of the end times in much different terms. Signs of it are everywhere. And the nations of the world are constantly trying to extinguish them.
Destiny of Glory.* 18I consider that the sufferings of this present time are as nothing compared with the glory to be revealed for us.n 19For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God; 20for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it,o in hope 21that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God.p 22We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now;q
Whatever it is that creation is in labor pains until now, that is it which is removed from truth in time. If we say it is the body of Christ, then there is no real removal in time because he was incarnate of the virgin Mary by the holy Spirit. In other words, labor pains belonged to Mary, who also knew the truth from the archangel Gabriel. If Paul is taken figuratively, and the body of Chirst on earth is all men and women, then the labor pains could possibly be understood by “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”. In other words, God’s spirit has given incarnation to man in the womb of creation, but he hasn’t yet been born to fulfill his mission which is to draw all things to himself. Abundant life in that sense would be the baptising of all men, acts of charity, kindness and the formation of true brotherhood among all.
It sounds all neat and tidy. But Jesus speaks of the end times in much different terms. Signs of it are everywhere. And the nations of the world are constantly trying to extinguish them.
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tonyrey
Guest
Truth is timeless! The truth is composed of eternal, immutable and indestructible facts. For example, nothing will ever change the fact that the universe has existed and exists now even though it may eventually cease to exist. Truth is in the same category as goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love which are all eternal, immutable and indestructible. Plato has been much maligned and ridiculed but in this respect his view is irrefutable. If the truth is relative and mutable there is no solid foundation for any rational conclusion whatsoever - including the assertion that truth is relative and mutable…What is truth that has been removed from time? Has Jesus tried to bring it back? Can truth be observed like beauty according to aesthetics?
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Michael19682
Guest
I certainly hope you are correct, for all our sakes. Amen. But your last statement contains a possible paradox. “there is no solid foundation”. some claim that this is the enduring truth. a foundationless, enduring truth.Truth is timeless! The truth is composed of eternal, immutable and indestructible facts. For example, nothing will ever change the fact that the universe has existed and exists now even though it may eventually cease to exist. Truth is in the same category as goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love which are all eternal, immutable and indestructible. Plato has been much maligned and ridiculed but in this respect his view is irrefutable. If the truth is relative and mutable there is no solid foundation for any rational conclusion whatsoever - including the assertion that truth is relative and mutable…
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tonyrey
Guest
If God is love - as we Christians believe - love is eternal, immutable and indestructible. Then it would be odd to exclude the other intangible aspects of reality.Truth is timeless! The truth is composed of eternal, immutable and indestructible facts. For example, nothing will ever change the fact that the universe has existed and exists now even though it may eventually cease to exist. Truth is in the same category as goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love which are all eternal, immutable and indestructible. Plato has been much maligned and ridiculed but in this respect his view is irrefutable. If the truth is relative and mutable there is no solid foundation for any rational conclusion whatsoever - including the assertion that truth is relative and mutable…
How could there be truth without any foundation? It cannot exist in a void because it presupposes the existence of at least one mind.But your last statement contains a possible paradox. “there is no solid foundation”. some claim that this is the enduring truth. a foundationless, enduring truth.
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Pugsly
Guest
Jesus came to witness to the Truth.What is truth that has been removed from time? Has Jesus tried to bring it back? Can truth be observed like beauty according to aesthetics?
Now, have you ever noticed that Truth is like fresh water in the Bible…“he who waters will himself be watered”?
Lies are like salt water…“the ancient sea serpent spewed forth a torrent of water to wash away the Child and His mother”…“can salt water and fresh come from the same source”…“the River flows down to the sea where it makes the salt waters fresh”.
Look throughout Scriptures and see the way fresh water is refered to as life-giving and from salt waters God rescues His people…Noah, the Red Sea, Jonah…etc
The Bible begins with the Spirit hovering over the sea…and ends (The book of Revelation)with this curious line…“and there was no more sea.”
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billcu1
Guest
Someone mentioned to me that Augustine said something about truth being removed from time so I was searching in that direction.Truth that has been removed from time. Are you talking about truths that have become false since their discovery?
Your second question sounds a little like an appeal to relativism. Truth is by definition perfect because it can be equated with the divine. after all, Jesus did call himself the truth. In this respect, truth is nor more “aesthetically beautiful” than a perfect score on an exam. While the two are desirable, they don’t tickle our senses like fine art or a great piece of music.
I am prepared to be wrong on this but it seems like rating truth on a scale of aesthetic beauty leads to truth being different from half truth only by degree instead of kind. But we all know that a half truth is a full lie, not a “lesser truth”.
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Pugsly
Guest
Jesus says (in today’s reading) “Even if I do testify on my own behalf, my testimony is true because I know where I came from and where I am going”.What is truth that has been removed from time? Has Jesus tried to bring it back? Can truth be observed like beauty according to aesthetics?
Jesus knows Order…even through this temporal valley of confusion.
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brendan1986
Guest
Truth is the accurate description of reality.
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Theophorus
Guest
Exactly so. What St Thomas and the Scolastics called the"conformity of the intellect and the thing(s)", insofar as a thing ‘is’ it has the capacity to be true(if the judgement of the intellect considering it is accurate). God being the necessary and eternal thing/being, who knows himself perfectly, is the most true thing there can be since God always ‘is’ and so is always true, while it wouldn’t be true to say ‘bob exists’ before bob was conceived.Truth is the accurate description of reality.
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Michael19682
Guest
God is the eternal foundation. The prophets attested to this truth and Jesus, His incarnation, revealed that this truth is love. You say it is odd to exclude the other intangible aspects of reality. Yet, Jesus is not intangible. Love is quite tangible. What intangibles are you referring to? Indeed, if a thing is intangible, how is it supported by love?If God is love - as we Christians believe - love is eternal, immutable and indestructible. Then it would be odd to exclude the other intangible aspects of reality.
How could there be truth without any foundation? It cannot exist in a void because it presupposes the existence of at least one mind.
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