Trying CCL method of NFP......question?

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Footprints04

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Hi All,

So I have tried Creighton model for a year and a half, and have had limited success figuring out anything with my cycle. Since my fiance and I are getting married in a year (12-12-09…feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe 🙂 )…I still have a year to see if this will work for us.

So we had our first meeting with the CCL instructor today, and at first it seemed great…but the problem is I have very extended, very hard to distinguish mucus patterns. Like there really are very few days out of my long cycle (usually about 40-45 days long) that have absolutely no mucus. It seems like this method still calls any mucus reading fertile…

So far I’ve been sort of diagnosed with PCOS and insulin resistance…very hard to diagnose the former…“diagnosis of exclusion” So that is the tentative explanation for the erratic mucus readings.

Any thoughts anyone on the sympto-thermal method of NFP? How that might work for me with crazy mucus patterns? Thank you!
 
We use STM and I have PCOS/slight insulin-resistance. The method works fine for us…I am religious about cervix checks and internal mucous observations, though.

It sounds like you already have it, but if you don’t…get the support of a good NFP-supportive physician who could help a lot. My NFP doc has helped with many things for me from luteal phase defects, to the PCOS diagnosis.
 
I have no experience with PCOS/Insulin Resistance, but I do have experience with STM and obscure mucus patterns due to breastfeeding. In my experience, I can pick out which mucus is the background/LAM mucus and which is the more-fertile mucus now that I have done it lots. I have learned to read the change in my mucus pattern rather than the presence/absence of mucus.

The other thing about STM is that you have other sources of data (temperature taking, cervical position) to fall back on if your mucus is hard to read. There are rules that are more temperature based and rules that are more mucus based.

HTH!
 
kristacecilia said:
I have no experience with PCOS/Insulin Resistance, but I do have experience with STM and obscure mucus patterns due to breastfeeding. In my experience, I can pick out which mucus is the background/LAM mucus and which is the more-fertile mucus now that I have done it lots. I have learned to read the change in my mucus pattern rather than the presence/absence of mucus.

The other thing about STM is that you have other sources of data (temperature taking, cervical position) to fall back on if your mucus is hard to read. There are rules that are more temperature based and rules that are more mucus based.

HTH!
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I agree… same story here, no experience with pcos/insulin issues, but I’ve used the sympto-thermal method for a long time.
Having the extra data points (cervical position and temperature) are REALLY helpful…
It sounds like you’ve got some time to figure things out - so that’s great!
Good luck with the new method!
 
Did you work with your Creighton instructor on your hard-to-differentiate mucus patterns? I had a hard time my first few cycles and ended up using yellow stamps to signify non-fertile mucus. If you’re still in touch with a CrMS instructor, it would probably be a good idea to talk to them about it.

From my experience, Creighton has many more categories/ways of dealing with CM observations than CCLI does. If it’s the added benefit of temping that attracted you, that’s one thing, but I wouldn’t personally expect CCLI to be that much more helpful in making the mucus observations. 🤷
 
Wow, you sound exactly like me! I have PCOS, too. I also have very long cycles - some are 40-45 days like yours, but before I was treated for PCOS I would sometimes have cycles that were 70 or 80 days. I also have confusing mucus.

Not to scare you, but - I’ve had two surprise pregnancies. Although they were almost 4 years apart, so NFP at least works moderately well for us. I’m still working on figuring out NFP after more than 5 years of using it. The first surprise happened before I knew I had PCOS. Since you know you have it, hopefully you can work at treating it now and will have time to get your cycles more normal before your wedding. You still have a year, which is good. We didn’t start learning NFP until closer to the wedding.

First of all, are you getting treated for PCOS? You should probably be on metformin, which treats the insulin resistance that’s the underlying cause of PCOS. Since I’ve been on metformin, my cycles have been slightly more normal and my mucus a little less confusing.

Also, I’ve found that eating carrot sticks every day makes the fertile mucus more “obvious.” I’ve found that for me, I can pretty much ignore tacky mucus, since I have that all the time. We only abstain when the really stretchy mucus starts. I usually have 4-5 days of that before ovulation. Eating carrots has really helped me have this really stretchy, really obvious fertile mucus, which gives me ample warning before ovulation.

Or you could try using one of the temperature-only methods. Since your cycles are so long, you should have a long phase 1 before ovulation.

I have never been able to detect much of a difference in my cervix position throughout my cycle, but that’s a possibility for you if it works for you.

It’s also possible you could have an erosion on your cervix, which can make mucus confusing. That’s what I have. I’m currently pregnant with my second child but I’m going to get the erosion treated after I have the baby, so hopefully that will make things easier.

Are there any NFP-only doctors in your area? I’ve had very long cycles my whole life but wasn’t diagnosed with PCOS until I was 26, by an NFP-only doctor. They’re much better than regular OB-GYNS and can really help you with NFP problems.

Also, not to scare you again, but many women with PCOS have trouble getting pregnant. Though I’ve had no trouble at all – I even had two surprises, the first one conceived before I knew I had PCOS. And my cycles were often longer than yours, so it’s possible you’ll have no problems either (though I don’t know what other PCOS symptoms you have. My only symptom is long cycles.) Still, I wouldn’t wait too long before trying to conceive.
 
No…I’m not expecting CCL to make the mucus observations better. I just don’t think I can rely on mucus observations alone (if at all).

I worked with a Creighton instructor for a year and a half, and didn’t make much progress at all. She was as stumped as I was since there is no pattern to my mucus readings, they are extended, and they vary from month to month. If we followed everything to a T with the creighton model, we would have only 4-5 “safe” days in a 40-45 day cycle. Really unusual.

My hope is with temps and cervix readings I could determine if I’m ovulating or not. And then to determine when my true “safe times” are and then of course when my fertile times are for when we are ttc.

Thanks for the replies so far!! 🙂 Anyone else with any experience with CCL? Mainly I’m just wondering if anyone relies more on temps/cervix readings than mucus.
 
Oh, and I always do internal mucus checks. I can’t tell just from wiping. That may or may not work best for you, though.
 
Oh and to answer some other questions about my PCOS situation (oh, and we need to be careful on too much specific medical advice so the mods don’t close this thread down):

I figured out something was wrong at the end of 2006…it took a year for me to find a doctor who would believe me that I thought something was wrong (I was gaining a lot of weight and hadn’t had a period since I stopped taking bcp in May of 2006). Finally in the summer of 2007 I learned the Creighton model, and a Creighton Dr. put me on Metformin. I eventually had to stop going to him though because he started putting me on lots of different hormones which was also making things go wacky. Oddly enough, I finally started getting normal, monthly periods after stopping all those hormones!

I’m just seeing an endo now to monitor my insulin resistance. I’m on a fairly high dose of Metformin ER now (2000mg). I still have extended mucus, but at least I’m having “regular” menstral cycles every 40-45 days. I’ve been taking Metformin since the end of 2007.

So yeah…I’m treating it as much as I can at the moment, since I have been very gun shy on seeing another doctor. 9 ob/gyns in a year and a half can be very trying!! Luckily the CCL instructor that we met yesterday is a doctor, so if things end up still being wacky with charting…I could possibly see if he could do anything for me.

So anyways…back to the topic of CCL/ sympto-thermal method 🙂
 
Have you considered using OPK’s together with your observations? I use CCL’s STM and even though I am pretty much like clockwork, I use OPK’s during the week before I “think” I will O to confirm my LH surge. It has worked wonderfully for me. I am not having to deal with PCOS so I don’t know if that would influence your ability to do this or not.

I do know that STM has a “patch” rule where you basically learn what is normal (nonfertile) mucus for you personally and you bounce back and forth between stage 1 and stage 2 several times before a thermal shift confirms stage 3. I personally find the confirmation of ovulation by my thermal shift to be very reassuring in knowing that I am in stage 3. I also use the cervix checks to help when things seem ambigious.

I’m sure this was clear as mud!!! 😉 But I hope it helps some…
 
I follow cervix signs and temperature as much, if not more than strict mucous readings. it works for us. WE’ve been using the method for 7 years with 100% success whichever way we were going (achieving or avoiding). It was difficult before the PCOS and luteal phase defect Dx …but once those were under control, I’ve had very small issues reading my charts to determine whether I’m fertile or infertile.
 
I think you should look at Marquette. It’s based on Creighton but also utilizes an ovulation kit. I know several people here have been very pleased with Marquette.
 
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