Trying to be Catholic

[Michaeljc4]

Hello. I hope this is the appropriate place for this posting; I’ve looked at all of the other forum topics, and this one seems to be the closest.

I am deeply, deeply torn in my heart about Catholicism. I returned to the church about four years ago, and I’ve attended off and on since then (although for the past six months, it’s been very much “off”). I was raised as a Catholic, but when I was about 15 or so I checked out completely and never even thought about returning until I was in my 30s.

I had an experience while I was in my late 20s–what I’ve learned is called a metanoia–a change of heart, brought to me by the grace of God. My life hasn’t been the same since, and it’s wonderful! When I began to think about faith and God again, I started to relearn about my Catholic heritage, and for awhile, that went really well. I love to read, so I read over 30 books about Catholicism from all sort of folks: Popes, dissidents, activists, saints, liberals, conservatives, you name it! I also very much practiced Catholicism: went to mass, went to confession (for the first time in 18 years…), practiced Lenten devotions, said the Rosary, watched EWTN, and prayed, prayed, prayed, everyday, thanking God for faith, apologizing for my sins, and basically trying as hard as I could to be a Catholic.

There are things about Catholicism that I love, but there are a few key points where the Church and I part ways, and that’s not going to change. After awhile, I found myself going to mass and being mad at the Church about its teachings on homosexuality, as well as on the role of women in the clergy. I am not asking to debate these topics, nor do I need to be educated on the position of the Church: I have studied these topic ad nauseum, and I have arrived at the legitimate, carefully considered, prayerfully offered conclusion that the Church and I will not see eye to eye on these topics. For all of the things I love about Catholicism, these two areas–but especially the part about gays–poisoned my nascent faith. Because I live in Massachusetts, the topic of gay marriage and gay adoption was very much in my face each and every week, so it’s not like I could just ignore my disagreements and think of other things.

So…I left. I started going to a Congregationalist Church in the town where I live. I found their beliefs to be much more in tune with mine, and I found their Christian works–especially service to the poor–to be front and center in their worship. I’ve been attending this church for several months now, and I like it. I wrote a long letter to Archbishop Sean O’Malley, told him about my feelings on the church’s teachings, politely said “adiós,” and planned on never returning to the Catholic Church.

But it won’t leave me alone. I miss it. I don’t want to, but I do. So here, at long last (and thank you for reading this far), is my problem: If I go back to the Catholic Church, I know that I will be angry and miserable. If I stay away, I will feel that I am being pulled back again and again and again. It’s like the old U2 song: “I can’t live/with or without you.” I just have no idea what to do anymore. I discovered today that this whole thing actually hurts like hell; my heart is in pain. I’m so tired of being conflicted.

I need your prayers. Please ask God to help me. I am so, so torn, and it just won’t go away. I have a baby girl now, and I want to raise her in faith, but my conscience is tearing me apart.

Thank you.

 

[Viki59]

Dear Michaeljc,
I converted several years ago, so I can sort of see where you’re coming from. I was hesitant about several things, including the “worship” of Mary, the Real Presence, the role of women in the church. Since then those issues have been resolved to my satisfaction.
I could not do without the Eucharist, that is the body and blood of our Lord who died for me. He said it’s necessary for salvation, and I have to believe him. All other issues pale in comparison.

About the problems that bother you – without arguing about them --do you feel that the church is harsh to people with same sex attraction? I havent seen that, though I know some individuals may be harsh or discriminatory at times. The church as a whole is accepting of everyone, and offers ministry to help them, like Courage.
I’m not sure what bothers you about the church’s position on homosexuals. I’m sure you know more about the topic than I do, as you’ve read so much. Once you accept that homosexual actions are not part of God’s plan for our sexuality, the rest of the position follows logically. In rejecting their actions, the church in no way rejects homosexuals themselves. She rejects fornication too, but people who fall into that sin are also welcome in the church and encouraged to change their lives.
Gay adoption is a controversial issue, I believe you can be Catholic and leave that open to discussion, though I could be wrong. If more Christians would adopt children, the issue wouldn’t even arise.
Women in the church – I don’t see a lot of Catholic women complaining. Some do, and choose to remain in the church, but most women are happy with things the way they are, including me. I don’t want to be a priest. I’m not sure if you’re a guy, but if you are, perhaps you should not let this issue embitter you. It doesn’t bother millions of Catholic women, so you shouldn’t let it come between you and your Savior.
There are a lot of fine Christians in other denominations, but they don’t have what Catholics have, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. There are a lot of screwy Catholics, but we don’t judge the church by them.
Hope my thoughts help a little. I’m sure you’re not alone in your struggles, many people work through a lot of stuff when returning to the church.
I will pray for you.

 

[Corinne]

God is so clearly tugging at your heart. He did the same to me (I’m a convert), and it just amazes me how He works within us. Listen to that whisper inside you. Like the previous poster said, Christ is present in the Catholic Church – truly present in the Eucharist. That’s something that other churches don’t even pretend to offer.

Pray for faith in Christ and His constant presence in the Catholic Church. You have my prayers!

 

[dulcissima]

My stepfather has had that same experience, leaving the Church for greener pastures, only to find those other churches just aren’t home. He still hasn’t found his way back yet, but I keep praying for him. It is just so obvious he won’t find peace until he just does it and comes back to the Catholic Church.

I actually was not raised Catholic, but did realize at a rather early age that it was the one true church. I remember being 7 and thinking about what my ideal religion would be like, what the beliefs would be, and then I realized that it would just be “my” religion then, and not God’s. I was 7 when I told my mom I would be Catholic.

Even when I joined the Church, there were still a few issues that I felt like I just couldn’t agree with, but for the most part I didn’t think these differences were enough to keep me away from the Church. As I have continued to learn about my faith, I have realized that on many of those issues the Church really did have a much deeper understanding than I had. In retrospect, I really wish I had spent every year of my life completely obedient to Church teaching because my life would have gone so differently. I guess sometimes we end up learning the hard way.

Anyhow, it sounds like you are being personally called to faith in the church that Jesus himself gave us. I know sometimes it is hard to give up our attachments to certain ideas, but really all I can say to you is surrender. So often surrender is the only sure way to find freedom. I think your conscience is letting you know what you need to do, and I have confidence in you that you can indeed do it.

 

[Veritas41]

Clearly God hasn’t given up on you because He is still pricking your conscience. I don’t really have any advice to offer except to spend time with Jesus before the Blessed Sacrament and be honest with Him about the struggles you’re having with these teachings. I’ll be praying for you!

 

[Kevin42]

Hello. I hope this is the appropriate place for this posting; I’ve looked at all of the other forum topics, and this one seems to be the closest.

I am deeply, deeply torn in my heart about Catholicism. I returned to the church about four years ago, and I’ve attended off and on since then (although for the past six months, it’s been very much “off”). I was raised as a Catholic, but when I was about 15 or so I checked out completely and never even thought about returning until I was in my 30s.

I had an experience while I was in my late 20s–what I’ve learned is called a metanoia–a change of heart, brought to me by the grace of God. My life hasn’t been the same since, and it’s wonderful! When I began to think about faith and God again, I started to relearn about my Catholic heritage, and for awhile, that went really well. I love to read, so I read over 30 books about Catholicism from all sort of folks: Popes, dissidents, activists, saints, liberals, conservatives, you name it! I also very much practiced Catholicism: went to mass, went to confession (for the first time in 18 years…), practiced Lenten devotions, said the Rosary, watched EWTN, and prayed, prayed, prayed, everyday, thanking God for faith, apologizing for my sins, and basically trying as hard as I could to be a Catholic.

There are things about Catholicism that I love, but there are a few key points where the Church and I part ways, and that’s not going to change. After awhile, I found myself going to mass and being mad at the Church about its teachings on homosexuality, as well as on the role of women in the clergy. I am not asking to debate these topics, nor do I need to be educated on the position of the Church: I have studied these topic ad nauseum, and I have arrived at the legitimate, carefully considered, prayerfully offered conclusion that the Church and I will not see eye to eye on these topics. For all of the things I love about Catholicism, these two areas–but especially the part about gays–poisoned my nascent faith. Because I live in Massachusetts, the topic of gay marriage and gay adoption was very much in my face each and every week, so it’s not like I could just ignore my disagreements and think of other things.

So…I left. I started going to a Congregationalist Church in the town where I live. I found their beliefs to be much more in tune with mine, and I found their Christian works–especially service to the poor–to be front and center in their worship. I’ve been attending this church for several months now, and I like it. I wrote a long letter to Archbishop Sean O’Malley, told him about my feelings on the church’s teachings, politely said “adiós,” and planned on never returning to the Catholic Church.

But it won’t leave me alone. I miss it. I don’t want to, but I do. So here, at long last (and thank you for reading this far), is my problem: If I go back to the Catholic Church, I know that I will be angry and miserable. If I stay away, I will feel that I am being pulled back again and again and again. It’s like the old U2 song: “I can’t live/with or without you.” I just have no idea what to do anymore. I discovered today that this whole thing actually hurts like hell; my heart is in pain. I’m so tired of being conflicted.

I need your prayers. Please ask God to help me. I am so, so torn, and it just won’t go away. I have a baby girl now, and I want to raise her in faith, but my conscience is tearing me apart.

Thank you.

First, I just want to say that our works should not be the focus of worship. All glory, honor, and praise are for God. All good things come from Him and everything must glorify Him. That is the beauty of the Catholic Church, the pinnacle and climax of worship during every mass at communion.

Anyways, come back to the Church, but try not to be bitter. Tell the Lord that you do not understand these teachings, and are having trouble accepting them. Ask Jesus to guide you and be patient with you while helping you understand his full teachings. I know I certainly have had things I didn’t agree with the Church on. I just decided to accept them, but not agree with them…all the while praying that God would give me understanding. It took a while, but the prayers were answered .

You’ll be in my prayers. Peace be with you and your daughter!

 

[mark_a]

There are things about Catholicism that I love, but there are a few key points where the Church and I part ways, and that’s not going to change.

No advice from me, but I am reminded of what Pope Benedict XVI said, “I may not like everything the Church teaches, but it is my duty to submit.”

Best wishes.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Thank you, everyone. I truly appreciate your suggestions, thoughts, and ideas. It is the submitting part that I can’t get over. The teachings of the church insult my conscience, and I can’t accept that. I understand the teachings perfectly well; I just can’t live by them, or teach them to my daughter. Yet at the same time…I am called back, again and again.

God bless,

Michaeljc4

 

[Pug]

If I go back to the Catholic Church, I know that I will be angry and miserable…

I need your prayers. Please ask God to help me. I am so, so torn, and it just won’t go away. I have a baby girl now, and I want to raise her in faith, but my conscience is tearing me apart.

You are not at peace, so you do need to investigate this, and I will pray for you, of course. I notice that you seem to go beyond disagreement. You feel anger about the Church, somehow. Do you know why you are angry (instead of some lesser emotion)? Also, do you know what is pulling you back? What is it that you miss?

 

[Veritas41]

Thank you, everyone. I truly appreciate your suggestions, thoughts, and ideas. It is the submitting part that I can’t get over. The teachings of the church insult my conscience, and I can’t accept that. I understand the teachings perfectly well; I just can’t live by them, or teach them to my daughter. Yet at the same time…I am called back, again and again.

God bless,

Michaeljc4

I offered Mass and Holy Communion for you today, and as I was thinking about your situation, this verse came to my mind: when Jesus had finished speaking about the Eucharist, and many of His disciples turned away from Him in disgust, He turned to the Twelve and asked, “You do not want to leave too, do you?” and Peter replied, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.” (John 6:67,-68)

I can only imagine the shock of the teaching of the Eucharist when it was first heard by Jesus’ followers – who had ever heard of such a thing or could have even imagined it? I don’t think Peter had come to the point of even beginning to understand the teaching, and perhaps was even repulsed by it, but he knew Jesus spoke the truth, even if that truth was hard to understand and accept at times (John 6:60). My situation is different from yours – I have been troubled and dismayed more at the lukewarmness, ignorance, and even heresy that seems so common among the Catholics I know, and I remember these words of St. Peter – to whom shall I go? Other churches that I’ve belonged to (I’m a convert) have better preaching, more committed members, better music, more inspiring preaching, but I know in my heart and my head that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded, even if there is much in her I find disturbing and troubling.

God bless you with the gift of faith and peace.

 

[Andruschak]

As far as the Church’s teachings on homosexuality go, here is the latest statement from the Bishops, as they actually said it, as opposed to what got filtered into the popular media

usccb.org/dpp/Ministry.pdf

 

[Pax]

Michaeljc4,

You are in my prayers.

I believe that the reason you are struggling is because your beliefs are not congruent with what God has given us.

Nowhere in the bible can we justify homosexuality.
Nowhere in the bible can we justify women being ordained priests.

Nowhere in Christian tradition can we find a justification for these things either.

Compassion is an important part of our humanity, but compassion does not establish or change the truth.

You may be allowing your compassion and sensibilities to determine your view of the truth, rather than letting the truth shape your views. We must fully embrace and surrender to the truth as God has given it to us. We cannot let our feelings or desires get in the way. Surrender is sweet and holy…it sets us free to properly love and obey God.

May God’s blessings, grace, and peace be in your heart.

 

[Ceil-1]

I sympathize with you. There is plenty to be unhappy with. I wonder, though, if it isn’t the other way around. Instead of thinking of it as the Church not agreeing with your conscience, placing your conscience before God’s, think of it as your conscience not having been formed correctly. You are a product of your age and was raised to believe a certain way.

Could it be you fear taking the counter-cultural belief? Let’s face it, if it weren’t so hip to be gay and a priestess, if it was culturally taboo instead of cool, like, say, smoking, I am certain you wouldn’t even give it a thought. I think you know in your heart that the Church has the right position about these things. It is just that it is so hard to live with the animosity you may get, living where you do. I think that it would take a denial of yourself, a taking up of your cross, so to speak, to take these positions. If you ask God for the graces, though, you will get them. I guess it’s a matter of which do you desire most? God’s grace and friendship, or human respect?

 

[Michaeljc4]

Again, more thanks for all of your comments, thoughts, and advice. What I miss about the Catholic Church is the familiarity of it all: it’s comfortable (and God knows it’s convenient! There are Catholic Churches all over having masses constantly…you can go anytime!) Also, I miss the focus on the poor and the needy; it is a central part of Catholicism, and the church’s teachings on social justice are, for me, the most powerful part of Catholicism.

I do not believe, however, that homosexuality is a sin. I’ve read the most recent statement by the bishops, and while I salute their kindness toward people who are gay, they are–in my opinion–wrong in categorizing homosexuality (or homosexual acts, to split semantic hairs) as sinful. I am not in any way, shape, or form, wishing to debate this; that’s not my intention in these postings. I already know how the argument will go, and I promise you: it will lead no where.

I can’t raise my daughter in a church that treats people in the way that gays are treated in the Catholic Church. I just can’t, nor can I sit quietly in the pews and listen to the Church rant and rail against gay marriage, gay adoption, and gay priests and seminarians. It pisses me off (please excuse my language), and I don’t go to church to be angry.

I’ve thought a lot about all of this since yesterday (and before, too, but it came up again yesterday for reasons I won’t bore anyone with). I am going to participate in the parts of Catholicism that speak to me, and stay away from the parts that make me sad and angry. I know that makes me a “cafeteria Catholic,” but so be it. That seems like the only way I am going to make peace with this whole thing.

Again, thanks to all for your help. I know I am kicking a hornet’s nest, and I apologize if I’ve angered anyone. That wasn’t my intention. You are all very kind to speak with me at all on this issue. God bless you. No matter what…next week is Advent! Let’s all celebrate the coming of the King! Hope is born again into this dark world…thanks be to God!

Michaeljc4

 

[Veritas41]

We can judge something by its fruits. I would suggest you read objective sociological/psychological studies done on homosexuals, same-sex couples and parenting, and see the “fruits” --do they line up with the Church’s assessment of homosexuality, or not?

 

[Michaeljc4]

I’ve read a lot of the science, Veritas41. Being gay is like having one brown eye and one blue one: odd, but harmless, and certainly not sinful. Are there sinful gay people? Of course. Is homosexuality (or homosexual acts) sinful? No. I know we disagree. We need not have this argument. By the way, that was very thoughtful, what you did for me today. Thank you so much. I truly appreciate it.

 

[maber43]

Again, more thanks for all of your comments, thoughts, and advice. What I miss about the Catholic Church is the familiarity of it all: it’s comfortable (and God knows it’s convenient! There are Catholic Churches all over having masses constantly…you can go anytime!) Also, I miss the focus on the poor and the needy; it is a central part of Catholicism, and the church’s teachings on social justice are, for me, the most powerful part of Catholicism.

I do not believe, however, that homosexuality is a sin. I’ve read the most recent statement by the bishops, and while I salute their kindness toward people who are gay, they are–in my opinion–wrong in categorizing homosexuality (or homosexual acts, to split semantic hairs) as sinful. I am not in any way, shape, or form, wishing to debate this; that’s not my intention in these postings. I already know how the argument will go, and I promise you: it will lead no where.

I can’t raise my daughter in a church that treats people in the way that gays are treated in the Catholic Church. I just can’t, nor can I sit quietly in the pews and listen to the Church rant and rail against gay marriage, gay adoption, and gay priests and seminarians. It pisses me off (please excuse my language), and I don’t go to church to be angry.

I’ve thought a lot about all of this since yesterday (and before, too, but it came up again yesterday for reasons I won’t bore anyone with). I am going to participate in the parts of Catholicism that speak to me, and stay away from the parts that make me sad and angry. I know that makes me a “cafeteria Catholic,” but so be it. That seems like the only way I am going to make peace with this whole thing.

Again, thanks to all for your help. I know I am kicking a hornet’s nest, and I apologize if I’ve angered anyone. That wasn’t my intention. You are all very kind to speak with me at all on this issue. God bless you. No matter what…next week is Advent! Let’s all celebrate the coming of the King! Hope is born again into this dark world…thanks be to God!

Michaeljc4

Michaeljc4,
If you have a bible. read Roman 1:24-32
This tells us about sexual immorality plus other things.
You are in my prayer.
Dominus vobiscum
Melvin

 

[Philthy]

I’ve read a lot of the science, … Being gay is like having one brown eye and one blue one: odd, but harmless, and certainly not sinful.
Are there sinful gay people? Of course. Is homosexuality (or homosexual acts) sinful? No. I know we disagree. We need not have this argument. By the way, that was very thoughtful, what you did for me today. Thank you so much. I truly appreciate it.

• Just out of curiosity, why is the Church’s position on homosexuality a big deal to you?
• Do you also reject the Bible when it speaks of homosexuality as a sin?
• Do you believe fornication is a sin?
• Do you believe in Hell?

 

[Philthy]

I’ve read a lot of the science, Veritas41. Being gay is like having one brown eye and one blue one: odd, but harmless, and certainly not sinful. Are there sinful gay people? Of course. Is homosexuality (or homosexual acts) sinful? No. I know we disagree. We need not have this argument. By the way, that was very thoughtful, what you did for me today. Thank you so much. I truly appreciate it.

This is a pretty revealing analogy that you have constructed: it fails to recognize the volitional aspect of homosexual acts which substantially alters the nature of homosexuality from something such as eye color.
Also, I find it illogical that you consider homosexuality “harmless” yet simultaneously find that the Church’s position on gay adoptions is harmful. Homosexuality by its very nature is reproductively barren - is that harmful or not? If it is not harmful as you suggest, then I cant imagine how you could somehow beleive that homosexuals who are denied adoptive parenthood have been harmed. It is intellectually dishonest to see the fruit of heterosexual parenthood as the solution to the inherent problem of homosexuality and as a “right” of the homosexual partners.
And dont get me wrong - I have compassion for those with same sex attraction - but that is separate from determining what is true; I agree with Pax’s post completely on that point.
I will also say that harboring such doubts when you have come to recognize that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church is a very dangerous path to follow. It is a very slippery slope which could easily cost you your faith in Christ altogether. Is the Church’s teaching really that harsh that you would entertain such a risk?

 

[InLight247]

Thank you, everyone. I truly appreciate your suggestions, thoughts, and ideas. It is the submitting part that I can’t get over. The teachings of the church insult my conscience, and I can’t accept that. I understand the teachings perfectly well; I just can’t live by them, or teach them to my daughter. Yet at the same time…I am called back, again and again.

God bless,
Michaeljc4

Here is my analogy: Do you think your daughter should denounce you and adopt herself into another family if she and you hold different opinions in some major issue?
Visualize this: when she is a teenager or young adult, and you have major disagreement. Is it right for her to denounce her relationship with you in this case?

Your answer probably is NO, and that is probably why you are being pulled and torn.

I am sure you know Catholic Church is the true church from Peter.
I am sure you know only Catholic faith believes the true presence in the Eucharist. And I am sure you know the authentic Church and the true presence of Jesus in Eucharist are irreplaceable by any other denomination. Numerous real Eucharistic Miracles where the Host turned into real flesh and blood during consecration has repeately proved the true presence.

So, would you want to desert this authentic Church and faith to exchange the view of tolerance of gay marriage? Catholic Church’s teaching about gay is based on the Bible. Bible clearly says homosexual is sinful. We hate sin but love sinners. I don’t know why you disagree with Bible to the degree to desert the Church?