Trying to be Catholic

[scared]

Hello All:

There are a couple of things I wanted to express. First Micheal is not the first nor the last to ever question the church’s stance on homosexuality, and that in itself is not a sin, nor is questioning anything about the church against the church.

For those who think Michael may never find a spirtual home, guess what he already has one, remember he said he believed in God, he doesn’t have to be in a church to have a spiritual home, as long as he has strong ties with God he can have a spiritual home in his own house. Telling him to leave and find another denomination is probably the worst thing he could be told.

I know I was told to leave the catholic church and the ramifications of those words have left me on the outside, without any hope of returning.

Michael continue to search find what is best for you, There are homosexual priests, deacons, layity in the catholic church, some are celebit, some are not, but is it any of our business? Nope it is between those people and God and only them.

Remember the bible is only a book, a book that was written by men and only men and for many years only interripted by men. My point, the bible is only an interritation. How I view it will differ from others, does that make me wrong and others right? No, it just means we differ and that is the difference between all people we are individuals.

scared

I question many of the church teaching

 

[PauloFreire2]

I agree with the Church – while the state of being gay is not a sin in and of itself, homosexual acts are, due to the disordered nature of homosexuality. Homosexuals must not act on their impulses. The literal, Biblical interpretationist view is much harsher. It condemns gays for what they are, which, in my view, is very cruel.

 

[BlazingBolt]

I went through much the same experience as you. Raised Catholic, fell away from the Church in my late teens and twenties, and then the Holy Spirit began to tug on my heart.

When you first feel the tug, your like “this is great”, and then you have a reservation about a belief or a doctrine, condoms, masturbation, contraception, homosexuality, Hell. I guess it could be anything. Then you begin to wonder, if they are wrong about this, then how can I go along with it all? I felt conflicted, I was being pulled in 2 directoins. What I finally realized was actually happening was the Holy Spirit was pulling me in one direction and I was resisting. God was calling me to union with him and I was sitting their going “but why can’t I just do this” or “what’s wrong with this”. It’s like I was trying to say “God I love you” but I kept attatching a “yeah but” with it. It is hard to drop everything to follow Jesus. But you know what, you are being drawn to the Catholic Church for a reason. In my experience, the closer I got to fully and unconditionally embracing Christ’s Church the stronger and more difficult the spiritual attacks became. Finally I made it to the door and walked through, what joy! My heart practically exploded. I now burn with love for the Church.

As far as your personal reservations I will say just a few things. First of all, we need to realize that the Church teaches us perfection. Our goal should be to become Saints, and the Church gives us the means to that end. We also need to let go of our pride. The Church was established by the Son of God himself and her teachings have been defined by Saints and minds more brilliant than ours under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. What is it then to say “You know what, I’ll just make up my own rules, I got my own opinions God” Also we need to understand that nature herself was corrupted by sin. Homosexuality may be a natural desire but that does not make embracing Homosexual desires acceptable in the eyes of God anymore than embracing anyother natural sinful desire. Don’t try and make your own morals, just try to understand why the Church teaches what it does and that you will ascend to that knowledge with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

If you keep being drawn to the Church, trust me, stop resisting. You will be much happier.

 

[Maxply]

Michael, good luck and godspeed to you, buddy. You’ve left me with the big impression that you’re just a quiet instigator, trying to generate arguments. I’m over with this one.

 

[Michaeljc4]

All I did was reply to your point, Maxply. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

 

[InLight247]

I do not believe, however, that homosexuality is a sin. I’ve read the most recent statement by the bishops, and while I salute their kindness toward people who are gay, they are–in my opinion–wrong in categorizing homosexuality (or homosexual acts, to split semantic hairs) as sinful.
Michaeljc4

I am sure we all agree our belief should base on the Word of God, the Bible.
Please read Genesis 19:4-11
The men of Sodom wanted to have sex with the two male angels who stayed in Lot’s house, and Lot said “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing.” And Lot offered his own daughters instead. The men angels pulled Lot into the house and made those wicked men blind so they could not find the door.
There is another place in Old Testament wrote black and white about man and mad did evil acts (homosexual),I read it before but have not found the book, the chapter and the verses.

The Word of God clearly said homosexuality is sinful.
It is not about your opinion or mine, it is about what the Bible says, the Word of God.

 

[zorrox]

Sodomy is one of the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance.
Even the demons themselves who tempt people to this sin flee in disgust from the place where the sin is committed.
We have been so brain-washed by the media to think it’s just an alternative choice on the smorgasbord of sexuality.
It’s not, we are all called to live chastity and purity, no difference between homosexuals and others. People who suffer under the sins of sexual immorality sometimes get their conscience so clouded and their hearts so hardened to the love of God that they reject the faith altogether.

The only remedy is a new turning to Christ and having recourse to His Immaculate mother.

 

[BlazingBolt]

I was wondering, who determines what is sinful?

Do I determine what is sinful? Does God determine what is sinful?

If God determines what is sinful, then how does he communicate this to us? It seems many people want to think that they can interpret things and figure it out themselves. Problem is that clearly people don’t always agree.

I think it comes down to whether or not you believe God cared enough to actually tell us what is sinful. If he didn’t want us to sin then I think he would. If Jesus Christ is the Son of God and established a Church and gave that Church authority then isn’t it clear? Do you think the Church arbitrarirly interprets things with out any supernatural guidance? What exactly to you believe the Church is?

You must be careful, because if you continue to insist that you decide what is sinful and what is not it can lead to final impenitence. If the Holy Spirit is revealing to you that the Catholic Church is the true Church then I would be very careful in choosing your own pride and the views of the world over what the Church teaches.

When it comes to God, it is all or nothing. If you can’t accept him completely you will inevitably end up rejecting him completely.

Don’t believe the lies that the Church is anti-Homosexual or Anti-Women.

 

[Imagine23]

I was wondering, who determines what is sinful?

Do I determine what is sinful? Does God determine what is sinful?

If God determines what is sinful, then how does he communicate this to us? It seems many people want to think that they can interpret things and figure it out themselves. Problem is that clearly people don’t always agree.

I think it comes down to whether or not you believe God cared enough to actually tell us what is sinful. If he didn’t want us to sin then I think he would. If Jesus Christ is the Son of God and established a Church and gave that Church authority then isn’t it clear? Do you think the Church arbitrarirly interprets things with out any supernatural guidance? What exactly to you believe the Church is?

You must be careful, because if you continue to insist that you decide what is sinful and what is not it can lead to final impenitence. If the Holy Spirit is revealing to you that the Catholic Church is the true Church then I would be very careful in choosing your own pride and the views of the world over what the Church teaches.

When it comes to God, it is all or nothing. If you can’t accept him completely you will inevitably end up rejecting him completely.

Don’t believe the lies that the Church is anti-Homosexual or Anti-Women.

I asked a Catholic on another thread if God is petty enough to be concerned with the sexual activities of consenting adults and he replied in the affirmative.

 

[Imagine23]

if you’re gay and want to indulge your passions, you’re probably not going to be able to stay Catholic and find peace of mind with that decision and commitment. It would better for you to move on to another denomination. Sorry. That’s my read of the ‘tea leaves’.

Guess a lot of priests need to be polishing off those resumes.

 

[BlazingBolt]

I asked a Catholic on another thread if God is petty enough to be concerned with the sexual activities of consenting adults and he replied in the affirmative.

You obviously misunderstand sex and God’s view of it. And to even suggest that God is petty demonstrates a complete lack of any concept of God. You clearly have a hardened heart and are coming from an adversarial position. If you choose to believe you know more than God and to think he is petty and to feed your hatred of God you will eventually realize that you have ended up hating everything that is good and your wish will be granted and everything good will be taken away from you and you can go ahead and continue hating it forever.

 

[littleone]

I am deeply, deeply torn in my heart about Catholicism. I returned to the church about four years ago, and I’ve attended off and on since then (although for the past six months, it’s been very much “off”). I was raised as a Catholic, but when I was about 15 or so I checked out completely and never even thought about returning until I was in my 30s.

I I also very much practiced Catholicism: went to mass, went to confession (for the first time in 18 years…), practiced Lenten devotions, said the Rosary, watched EWTN, and prayed, prayed, prayed, everyday, thanking God for faith, apologizing for my sins, and basically trying as hard as I could to be a Catholic.

“I can’t live/with or without you.” I just have no idea what to do anymore. I discovered today that this whole thing actually hurts like hell; my heart is in pain. I’m so tired of being conflicted.

I need your prayers. Please ask God to help me. I am so, so torn, and it just won’t go away. I have a baby girl now, and I want to raise her in faith, but my conscience is tearing me apart.
Thank you.

I wonder if there is a conflict between the spirit of God within you and your humanness. You know I tried and tried to be a saint, I wanted to do anything to be a saint and I believe Jesus gental quiet words were, all He desires me to be, is an ordanary person, thats all He can use. Just love, throw away all my learned books and let Him teach me from the heart.
What I mean is this. God asks us to be still and to love Him. The spirit of God within us wishes us to do so however as Paul put it “body of mine why do you do these things I detest”? Although he was an Apostle still he was tormented with the human self. Paul asked God one night in prison if God would take this pain away from him an God said “no I could but I would rather you remember Me through your pain”.

It seems that you know where your home is but your humanness fights it by (it seems) listening to the satan who wants you to be disobedient, dislodged, confused, frustrated, individual and others and all so that he can cause you to follow your heart and not the spirit of God within you, (the Holy Spirit). Does God want or need us to do the thinking for Him? Then let go of your own thoughts listen to God His words give you life He alone is true love.

But God is much stronger than we and through all our pain He is there. You might think of this, God has gone before you to prepare the way He is there if you want to speak to Him and He gives you no more than you can take.
Be still and know that God is God.

 

[Michaeljc4]

This thread has been an enormous help to me, it really has. I have appreciated all of the (name removed by moderator)ut, and I’ve really given a lot of thought (and prayer) to this issue I’ve been dealing with. My beliefs about God are different from those of many who have written here. I don’t think the Catholic Church *is *God, or a direct manifestation of the incarnation. It is a church, full of people both good and bad, full of ideas both good and bad, rich with history both good and bad. It is also not for me. If that makes me a Protestant, so be it.

Thanks again, everyone. God bless you all, and good luck. As far as I’m concerned, we can kill this thread, but if others wish to keep discussing, I’m certainly game.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

This thread has been an enormous help to me, it really has. I have appreciated all of the (name removed by moderator)ut, and I’ve really given a lot of thought (and prayer) to this issue I’ve been dealing with. My beliefs about God are different from those of many who have written here. I don’t think the Catholic Church *is *God, or a direct manifestation of the incarnation. It is a church, full of people both good and bad, full of ideas both good and bad, rich with history both good and bad. It is also not for me. If that makes me a Protestant, so be it.

Thanks again, everyone. God bless you all, and good luck. As far as I’m concerned, we can kill this thread, but if others wish to keep discussing, I’m certainly game.

With all due respect, this was obvious from the outset. You want your religion to cater to you desires, rather than the other way around. That simply isn’t compatible with the Catholic faith.

So, yes, you are definitely a Protestant at this point, and there are numerous demoninations that will cater to your world view and (like you) treat Scriptures passages as optional.

Good luck.

 

[Michaeljc4]

You want your religion to cater to you desires, rather than the other way around.

I don’t want religion to insult my conscience, and the teachings of the Catholic Church, on several key issues, do just that.

Good luck to you, too, Peter. Have a nice Christmas.

 

[BlazingBolt]

So it sounds like your deciding that what is drawing you to the church is convenience or sentimentallity. I don’t think you can actually believe this when you previously said your heart was being torn and you were in pain. Why would you be so conflicted if one church is as good as the next? Christ established ONE church and gave it authority:

Matthew 16: 13-19

18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 20: 21-23

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”

Luke.10.16

16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Clearly the Spirit is guiding you toward this truth that is his Church. It is difficult to humble ourselves and accept this, and I sympathize with your difficulty in accepting this authority. I had difficulty accepting the authority of the Church on certain issues as well. But what your doing is hardening your heart. Have you ever thought “maybe I am wrong, maybe homosexuality is a sin” or does your pride drive you to anger at the mere though? We must be like children when approaching the kingdom, soften your heart and allow the spirit of truth to decide. Have you thought about what would happen if God actually spoke to you and said “Homosexuality is a sin”, how would you react? Would you spit at God and tell him he was wrong? Hypothetically, would you hold on to this belief that Homosexuality is good and wholesome behavior if it meant going to Hell for it?

We do not look down on Homosexuals. If your a homosexual you should resist the desire to act on it just like you should resist the desire to masturbate. Just like an alcholic should resist the desire to drink, or the pedophile should resist the desire to touch children. No one can use the excuse that it was a natural desire when it comes to sin.

 

[zorrox]

I don’t want religion to insult my conscience, and the teachings of the Catholic Church, on several key issues, do just that.

Good luck to you, too, Peter. Have a nice Christmas.

The teachings on homosexuality is not just a teaching of the Catholic church it is explicitly found in the sacred Scriptures.
Since protestants say the bible is the only authority I’m afraid you’d be a lousy protestant.
Anyway there’s no way around this unless you stop believing in the sacred Scriptures too. Without the holy tradition of the Church and without the bible what faith would you be? Certainly not Christian.
Before you decide too do anything too hastily please consider studying the Catholic faith from a academic perspective, And remember you do not have to understand everything just believe God is smarter than you

You’re in my prayers.

 

[LittleDeb]

Good point! So what are your thoughts on slavery? The Bible’s pretty clear on that, too. The Bible says lots of things, Maxply. Are you sure you are following all of the rules?

Actually I’ve heard this phrase from a lot of people who think Scripture is referencing chattel slavery and say that it is “pretty clear” on that. Scripture is actually referencing indentured servitude which is not sinful. Most likely that is a topic for another thread, but when I saw this wording it made me concerned. I have no idea what your thoughts are, but I worried for others reading this thread.

Scripture condemns chattel slavery and strictly limits the parameters of indentured servitude.

 

[kitkatty]

Your beliefs don’t make it true, friend, because they are just that: your beliefs, and the beliefs of many others. You are welcome to them, and I respect them, while I don’t necessarily agree with them or share them.

Peace, and thank you for speaking with me.

Michaeljc4

Michael, before you abandon your pursuit of the Catholic Church please do a couple things. First, study history, really study from OBJECTIVE sources and particularly study the history of both and Catholic and Protestent Churchs. Because at the end of day it all boils down to either you accept and believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ or you don`t. If you come to the realization of the truth of the one true Church then the next logical conclusion is that Church is authorized by Christ and speaks with authority from the Holy Spirit, not just the beliefs of men. And if the Church speaks with the authority of the Holy Spirit, who are any of us to argue? We may all have particular Church teachings we have difficulty with on a personal level. In your case it is homosexuality, for someone else it could be contraception. The point is as Catholics we will accept and obey the teachings of the Church because we know the Church is guided by the Spirit as promised by Christ.
Please continue prayerfully in your quest and may it lead you to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[kitkatty]

The teachings on homosexuality is not just a teaching of the Catholic church it is explicitly found in the sacred Scriptures.
Since protestants say the bible is the only authority I’m afraid you’d be a lousy protestant.
Anyway there’s no way around this unless you stop believing in the sacred Scriptures too. Without the holy tradition of the Church and without the bible what faith would you be? Certainly not Christian.
Before you decide too do anything too hastily please consider studying the Catholic faith from a academic perspective, And remember you do not have to understand everything just believe God is smarter than you

You’re in my prayers.

Good advice to Michael, I might add study history well from an OBJECTIVE source, and study Catholic and Protestent history. At the end of the day you either believe the Catholic Church is the one Church founded by Jesus Christ and continues to guided by the Holy Spirit to keep its doctrines free from error or you dont. This is where prayerful and objective study come in.
Please dont abandon your pursuit of the Church until you are satisfied in your own heart and mind you have done this. As to problems with certain teachings, actually some Catholics have issues with certain teachings on a personal level. For you it is homosexualuity, for someone else, maybe contraception. The point is since the Churchs teachings are guided by the Holy Spirit(AND NOT THE PERSONAL BELIEFS AND INTERPRETATIONS OF MEN) we obey and in obeying the Church we are obeying Jesus Christ.
May the Spirit lead you to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.