Trying to be Catholic

[kitkatty]

Sorry about double posting, wasn`t sure the first post went through.

 

[maregough]

Dear Michael

I am a Catholic because I BELIEVEOBEDIENT U]** to the Church. The Church is formed on law and order as is our government. We can disobey but we must accept the consequences. The protestors (protestants) formed a new religion and so there is an option for you.

We cannot change the Church we can only change us. Until we SURRENDERand die to self we will always be at odds with our Church.

We are all sinners but He LOVED us so much that He sent His only Son to die for our sins. All we have to do is as St Agustine said “Love God and do as you please.”

I struggle with many issues myself and I question the authoirty of the church but until they start saying Mass and serving the Euchrist at Starbucks I am in church.

May the Peace that passes all understanding be yours.

Love & Peace
Mare**

 

[Steven_Campbell]

It is good that you are trying to marry your ideas with your faith. What is it that bothers you about the Church and women. Women and Men are equally but different. Have you heard of Men complaining about not being able to give birth? This would be opposite to natural Law. This is the same for Women ordination. Priests (Men) stand in the place of Jesus in confession and the Mass. This is how Jesus wanted it to be. I trust that Jesus knows what he is doing. The Church follows Jesus teaching, guided by the Holy Spirit. I trust the Church. (Spent much of my life trying to do it myself but I just decided that God is guiding the Church so I should follow it).
As for Homosexual’s, The Church says to Love each other as God Loves us. We are not to Judge. I think of it this way. It would be wrong for 2 heterosexuals to engage in sex outside of marriage. Just as it is wrong of 2 homosexuals to engage in sex outside of marriage. The Church makes no distinction between the two. Homosexuals can not be married because they can not procreate. This is against the Natural Law. By no way does this give anyone permission to feel superior to a person with same sex attraction. Have compassion for these people with cross that they must bear. Be their friend and encourage them to lead a good life. Trust the Jesus will help them. Follow the church and accept her teaching as a child does. You will never be led astray.
This is just my two cents. I will pray that you continue in you walk of faith.

 

[InTheWilderness]

I am chiming in because I have recently had some major breakthroughs in my faith.

I once thought the Church was stuck in some old ways of thinking. It was out of touch with reality. I was a well educated, very intelligent, modern American. I had a vast arsenal of science, reason, and secular culture to back up my ideas. I had studies and polling data. The Church had some apparently impossible to prove idea of guidance from the Holy Spirit, and an old book that everyone knew had problems in it.

As an example, I used to think the Church had to be wrong about masturbation. After all, it isn’t even directly mentioned in the Bible. I did have some qualms about lusting and pornography, so I figured if one could indulge the bodily urge without involving the imagination it would be OK. I even sometimes justified the exploitation of other people that is pornography by reasoning that they were consenting. My biggest reasons were the simple matters of it being a biological urge and function, the fact that so many people do it, and my own personal life history. But, I never quite felt at ease about the concept. Sometimes I had no doubts I was right, other times I wondered. I certainly never came clean in confession, and I certainly never stopped going to communion at mass.

Well, then along comes a Theology of the Body retreat led by a really great priest. I realize the Theology of the Body teachings make sense. Then I spend a couple hours in front of the Eucharist in Adoration. And some time thinking and reflecting. Then at about 2:00 AM I finally go get in line for Confession. I don’t really intend to bring it up in confession, but I think maybe I should. Well, the priest was pretty perceptive, didn’t put up with any beating around the bush, and with his help I made my first good confession in a long time, maybe ever. Then I spent some more time with Eucharistic Adoration. I have never felt better at any time in my life before or since. It was like the weight of the world was lifted off of me, and it was like meeting a long lost friend, all at once.

I am still not 100% sure about the Church’s teaching on that, or on some other things. The difference is that I have tried to surrender to the Truth. Not the truth as I see it, I had already been doing that for a long time. Rather, the Truth as God sees it, which is revealed in many ways.

I had always placed the burden of proof on the Church. It had to prove its teachings when I didn’t agree. Now I realize the burden of proof is the other way around. When I disagree with the Church, I must prove my case. Thus far I have not found anything that I dissent on since then. I can not meet the standard of proof I set for myself. Somehow God is giving me the grace needed. Many teachings remain a great mystery. Much of what the Church does is still a mystery. Yet, there is some level of peace that was missing before.

Looking back, I now wonder, what good would ever have come out of that practice? Ultimately, I can see no good in it. (Though I do sympathize, but disagree, with the Muslim scholars who hold it is OK, but only if done to avoid a greater sin.) If no real, true, ultimate good can come from something, then why would we wish to do it?

Homosexual sex is in that same category. Does it lead anyone to eternal union with God? I can’t see how it could. So, why does anyone NEED it?

If people NEED homosexual sex, then what about premarital sex? Plural marriages? Affairs? Where does one draw the line? On what basis can a line be drawn?

Sex is a beautiful gift and an awesome responsibility. Shouldn’t it be used for the ultimate good of our beloved, ourselves, and the entire people of God?

Thomas Aquinas is quoted as having defined love thusly, and I think he is right on target:
“To love is to act in a way toward the beloved, that will bring the beloved to its ultimate end.” (Or at least that is how I have it noted.)

So, what is the ultimate end of each and every human person? In what ways does sex bring people closer to that ultimate end? If a particular sex act does not bring someone closer to that ultimate end, then what good is it?

Was the love of God that Christ demonstrated on the cross anything less than a free, total, faithful, and fruitful love?
If that is how Christ loves his Church, then shouldn’t that be the sort of love we try to express to each other and to God?

Sex inside marriage can be a sign of free, total, faithful, and fruitful love. Yet, I can not see any other way that sex can be such a sign. If I am incorrect, I would be open to hearing how and why.

continued…

 

[InTheWilderness]

As another example, I once thought the Church was too hard on those who divorce and remarry. I have a relative that did this, and he and his new wife are very happy. They seem to complete each other. Yet, what good came out of avoiding the proper procedures the Church has for these matters? Nothing that I can see. Now this relative is estranged from the Church. It almost certainly has some impact on the marital relationship, and the relationship with God, though it isn’t visible to me.

We see ourselves and our dearest friends and beloved family members doing things that the Church teaches are wrong. Because of our love for them, we can’t really accept that what they are doing is evil. That seems too harsh. There must be some way of reconciling the things. But there really isn’t. We must love such people in our lives (my life is full of them) and yet we must love the Truth. And if we love them and the Truth, we must eventually try to find a way to bring them to the Truth, and the Truth to them. We can not rationalize evil out of charity, to do so is uncharitable. However, we must not condemn others or drive them away, for that is also uncharitable. While I don’t know how exactly it should be done, we must always teach the Truth with love, and do so out of love for one another.

I have not been, and I am not now, I saint. In part because I admit this, I find it difficult to think that my notions (even when my heart, mind, and spirit appear to agree) of right and wrong are superior to those of all the saints and popes for the last 2000 years. It would be intellectually dishonest, at least for me, to place the burden of proof upon the Church that Christ founded. To the best of my ability I will give the Church the benefit of the doubt, even though it is a difficult struggle.

What is Truth? Where (or who) does it come from? How are we to know it? What do we turn to when we have doubts? Who will correct us when we are in error? If individual interpretation is the answer, why are there literally tens of thousands of sects of Christianity who follow that path and yet disagree? If the individual human conscience can reliably determine good and evil apart from the Church, then how do we explain some of the absolute, terrible evils to be found in human history? Surely not all those who perpetrate true evil are insane? Surely they did not all intentionally embrace the work of the Devil and the path to Hell?

 

[Francis_C]

We are very fortunate to have the Catholic Church. Using my conscience and reasoning there is just no way that the Holy Spirit could come upon Mary resulting in the virgin birth of Jesus who is both God and man. God is 3 persons and one is a ghost, come on that can’t be right? My conscience, reasoning and intellect tell me masturbation and gay sex are normal results of the human condition and are not wrong, let alone mortal sins. My conscience, reasoning and intellect tell me all kinds of things the Church says are wrong, are perfectly normal and right. It sure would be nice if the church came out of the dark ages and began to get a few things right, because the Church is wrong about so many things. I used to think this way.

We were created to love and serve God in this world so that we might live with him forever in the next. Gods’ ways are not our ways. Jesus created the Catholic Church so that we will know what is right and wrong even if our minds, conscience and intellect say the opposite. The Catholic Church can never err in faith and morals, because it is from God. We are so very fortunate to have the Catholic Church so we will always know what Gods will is, even though it may go against our reason, intellect and conscience. I have come to believe 100% without doubt that the Church is always right in its teaching on faith and morals even if I do not understand it, because it comes from God and not man.
Fran

 

[francisca]

"veritas41:

We can judge something by its fruits. I would suggest you read objective sociological/psychological studies done on homosexuals, same-sex couples and parenting, and see the “fruits” --do they line up with the Church’s assessment of homosexuality, or not?

I’ve read a lot of the science, Veritas41. Being gay is like having one brown eye and one blue one: odd, but harmless, and certainly not sinful. Are there sinful gay people? Of course. Is homosexuality (or homosexual acts) sinful? No. I know we disagree. We need not have this argument. By the way, that was very thoughtful, what you did for me today. Thank you so much. I truly appreciate it.

I see homosexuality as a desease. Just as people with any sickness, homosexuals are to be treated with care and compassion. But it is certainly NOT harmless. It can be harmful to non-homosexual people, even children, because it is contageous (homosexuals sometimes prey on non-homosexual people, to make them homosexual just like them, let alone the compromised hygene issue because of how they practice it, plus frequent partner change before they find perfect match!).

Some homosexuals learn it from experience, but some born with it. Both are unhealthy conditions, in my opinion. Unhealthy condition needs to be treated.

Homosexuallity is surrounded by aggressive sexuality. I do understand that male’s sexuality is aggressive in nature. But homosexuality is even more aggressive because of their inferiority in the society (the society does not accept them).

I also believe that homosexuality is caused by other social deseases such as porn, divorce and remarry (of their parents), sexual abuse, or any other out-of-context-or-violent-sexual experience.

If it is hormonal, then it is still a desease anyway.

As with any other unhealthy behavior, people with such problem should be educated about their condition. To tell them that they have some problem and need to be treated is how to love them. To tell them “it’s ok that you act on your impulses” is wrong, because their impulses comes from unhealthy condition.

To love homosexuals is to tell them the truth. If God were allow people to choose their sexuality, He wouldn’t ask us to “multiply”. Homosexuallity is in direct confrontation to this specific will of God.

 

[BlazingBolt]

Excellent posts InTheWilderness The Holy Spirit is definitely working in your life, continue to surrender to the graces offered to you. Remeber all the Saints were sinners and it is not by their will that they became Saints, it was through surrendering to God’s graces. We are all called to be Saints although there are most certainly many Saints who are not canonized by the pilgrim Church. You are right that we should work to bring others to the Truth and that this is a true expression of Love. I believe that the way to do this is by no effort of our own but it is by allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us, we can do nothing good apart from God. We must also remember and respect others free will just as God does, if someone refuses to receive Grace and rejects the truth that is their right, but we should coninue to love them and to be an example to them. Perhaps the seed you plant will bloom many years later.

 

[LSK]

Your beliefs don’t make it true, friend, because they are just that: your beliefs, and the beliefs of many others. You are welcome to them, and I respect them, while I don’t necessarily agree with them or share them.

Peace, and thank you for speaking with me.

Michaeljc4

Truth is not relative. Truth is Truth. As a very learned man recently said, it does not matter if you accept the Truth or not as the Truth is not dependent upon your belief in it to be Truth.

Sex outside the covenant/sacrament of Matrimony is a sin. The Sacrament of Matrimony can only be celebrated between a man and a woman.

Being a Catholic is not based on what is convenient, what is popular or what is politically correct. It means walking towards holiness in the light of Truth, even when the Truth is difficult to accept.

Being a Catholic means accepting 100% the teachings of the Bride of Christ - The Church - even if I do not always understand the “why” behind a teaching.

If you are praying the Rosary, spending time in Adoration before the Blessed Sacrament and praying for Faith you will be lead home to the Holy Mother Church.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Hello, friends. It’s funny for me to re-read this thread, more than a year and a half since I last wrote on it. For those of you who originally posted, and spoke with me, offering prayers and advice and kind thoughts…thank you.

Your prayers worked.

My struggle with Catholicism’s teachings went on and on and on. Last summer, at last, I said “The hell with this” and walked away. I was done. Protestantism, here I come.

In the fall I joined a Congregationalist Church in the town where I live. I studied Martin Luther, some John Calvin, the Puritans, Marcus Borg, Reinhold Niebhor, and lots of others. I started to get involved in the church. My wife and daughter and I went every week. The music was beautiful, the preaching lively, the people friendly, and the experience entirely pleasant.

Then my father died.
Then my second daughter was born.
Then the Holy Father came.

Then I truly had to choose.

It’s funny, in a way, but for all of the reading I did about Catholicism, I realized I was reading nothing but those who disagreed with the Church on this issue or that one. Liberal Catholics, dissenting Catholics, former Catholics, struggling Catholics…I read so many writers and thinkers who had problems with the Church that I became a Protestant!

I’m not a Protestant. I’m a Catholic. Once I had removed it from my life–entirely removed it–I realized how much I missed it. I prayed. God heard me. The Holy Spirit moved me. Jesus forgave me. And I came home.

My greatest point of disagreement, as I wrote in this thread, was on homosexuality. I ‘get’ that teaching now. I understand it. I may not like it, but…I get it.

I went with my children and my wife to Catholic Church today. We’ve been going regularly, and I have no intention of ever leaving again.

Thank you, all, for your prayers.

Michaeljc4

 

[Holly3278]

Hello. I hope this is the appropriate place for this posting; I’ve looked at all of the other forum topics, and this one seems to be the closest.

I am deeply, deeply torn in my heart about Catholicism. I returned to the church about four years ago, and I’ve attended off and on since then (although for the past six months, it’s been very much “off”). I was raised as a Catholic, but when I was about 15 or so I checked out completely and never even thought about returning until I was in my 30s.

I had an experience while I was in my late 20s–what I’ve learned is called a metanoia–a change of heart, brought to me by the grace of God. My life hasn’t been the same since, and it’s wonderful! When I began to think about faith and God again, I started to relearn about my Catholic heritage, and for awhile, that went really well. I love to read, so I read over 30 books about Catholicism from all sort of folks: Popes, dissidents, activists, saints, liberals, conservatives, you name it! I also very much practiced Catholicism: went to mass, went to confession (for the first time in 18 years…), practiced Lenten devotions, said the Rosary, watched EWTN, and prayed, prayed, prayed, everyday, thanking God for faith, apologizing for my sins, and basically trying as hard as I could to be a Catholic.

There are things about Catholicism that I love, but there are a few key points where the Church and I part ways, and that’s not going to change. After awhile, I found myself going to mass and being mad at the Church about its teachings on homosexuality, as well as on the role of women in the clergy. I am not asking to debate these topics, nor do I need to be educated on the position of the Church: I have studied these topic ad nauseum, and I have arrived at the legitimate, carefully considered, prayerfully offered conclusion that the Church and I will not see eye to eye on these topics. For all of the things I love about Catholicism, these two areas–but especially the part about gays–poisoned my nascent faith. Because I live in Massachusetts, the topic of gay marriage and gay adoption was very much in my face each and every week, so it’s not like I could just ignore my disagreements and think of other things.

So…I left. I started going to a Congregationalist Church in the town where I live. I found their beliefs to be much more in tune with mine, and I found their Christian works–especially service to the poor–to be front and center in their worship. I’ve been attending this church for several months now, and I like it. I wrote a long letter to Archbishop Sean O’Malley, told him about my feelings on the church’s teachings, politely said “adiós,” and planned on never returning to the Catholic Church.

But it won’t leave me alone. I miss it. I don’t want to, but I do. So here, at long last (and thank you for reading this far), is my problem: If I go back to the Catholic Church, I know that I will be angry and miserable. If I stay away, I will feel that I am being pulled back again and again and again. It’s like the old U2 song: “I can’t live/with or without you.” I just have no idea what to do anymore. I discovered today that this whole thing actually hurts like hell; my heart is in pain. I’m so tired of being conflicted.

I need your prayers. Please ask God to help me. I am so, so torn, and it just won’t go away. I have a baby girl now, and I want to raise her in faith, but my conscience is tearing me apart.

Thank you.

Michael, I don’t know if you want prayers or not but if you do, feel free to PM me and I will pray for you.

 

[Kevin42]

Hello, friends. It’s funny for me to re-read this thread, more than a year and a half since I last wrote on it. For those of you who originally posted, and spoke with me, offering prayers and advice and kind thoughts…thank you.

Your prayers worked.

My struggle with Catholicism’s teachings went on and on and on. Last summer, at last, I said “The hell with this” and walked away. I was done. Protestantism, here I come.

In the fall I joined a Congregationalist Church in the town where I live. I studied Martin Luther, some John Calvin, the Puritans, Marcus Borg, Reinhold Niebhor, and lots of others. I started to get involved in the church. My wife and daughter and I went every week. The music was beautiful, the preaching lively, the people friendly, and the experience entirely pleasant.

Then my father died.
Then my second daughter was born.
Then the Holy Father came.

Then I truly had to choose.

It’s funny, in a way, but for all of the reading I did about Catholicism, I realized I was reading nothing but those who disagreed with the Church on this issue or that one. Liberal Catholics, dissenting Catholics, former Catholics, struggling Catholics…I read so many writers and thinkers who had problems with the Church that I became a Protestant!

I’m not a Protestant. I’m a Catholic. Once I had removed it from my life–entirely removed it–I realized how much I missed it. I prayed. God heard me. The Holy Spirit moved me. Jesus forgave me. And I came home.

My greatest point of disagreement, as I wrote in this thread, was on homosexuality. I ‘get’ that teaching now. I understand it. I may not like it, but…I get it.

I went with my children and my wife to Catholic Church today. We’ve been going regularly, and I have no intention of ever leaving again.

Thank you, all, for your prayers.

Michaeljc4

Glory to God! I am glad that your soul seems to have come to greater peace by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Our prayers are still with you.

 

[Pug]

Thank you, all, for your prayers.

Michaeljc4

It’s so nice to hear from you again, to find out how the Spirit continued to work in your life. I will pray for you and your family as you find yourselves back in the Church. May you continue to grow in love, faith, and hope.

 

[BlazingBolt]

:clapping: :heaven::harp: :dancing: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :bounce:

Thank you for sharing, great news! Know that the choirs in heaven rejoice at events like this. Welcome home, brother in Christ. Hope if you haven’t yet that you will be joining us at the table soon.