Trying to come up with something for Genesis 5

  • Thread starter Thread starter William7
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

William7

Guest
In Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu, on biblical studies, he said that “definite solutions should be sought” to the most difficult passages of the Bible. Genesis 5 is one such passage. Even if the numbers in Genesis 5 are taken literally, the question remains, “Why is this chapter wholly taken up with them? What is their importance?” Perhaps if we put our heads together, we can come up with something.

I have some leads, each of which may be (and probably is) delusive… The goal here is to get meaning out of Genesis 5.

1st lead:
The life-span of each of the ten men is divided into two parts: years before the begetting of the named son, and years after, during which many sons and daughters are begotten. How to conceive of these two parts? possibilities…
time of preparation, time of work
time of abstinence, time of opposite
time of contemplation, time of action
time leading up to climax of life, after-years

The ratio whole-life / first-part-of-life shows a pattern:
Adam 7.2
Seth 8.7
Enos 10.1
Cainan 13
Malaleel 13.8 (ascending for first 5 generations)
Jared 5.9
Henoch 5.6
Mathusala 5.18
Lamech 4.27
Noe 1.9 (descending for last 5 generations)

2nd lead: correspondence to line of Cain (in Genesis 4)
ADAM
Abel / Seth ----- Cain (relationship obvious)
Enos ------------- Henoch (see Genesis 4:17 and 4:26)
Cainan ---------- Irad
Malaleel -------- Maviael
Jared ----------- Mathusael
Henoch -------- Lamech (seventh generation, culmination in good (translation) and evil (murderous polygamist)
Mathusala ----- Jabel (Mathusala has longest life, abides long on earth, whereas Jabel is a nomad)
Lamech -------- Jubal (Lamech lives 777 years, Jubal is musical)
Noe ----------- Tubalcain (Noe builds an ark out of wood, Tubalcain works with metals)
[You notice that since the line of Cain goes only to the eighth generation, Lamech and Noe are paired with Jubal and Tubalcain, respectively. The sister of Tubalcain is “Noema,” perhaps a hint that this procedure is good.]

I lack relationships for generations 4, 5, and 6. But here are some openings. Generation 6 Jared is at the turning point of the ratio I mentioned above, and he is paired with Mathusael, whose name is like Mathusala. “Malaleel” is similar to “Maviael.” More important, notice how names in the line of Cain are “mimicked” in the line of Seth later:
Cain : Cainan
Henoch : Henoch
Mathusael : Mathusala
Lamech : Lamech

Also notice the line of Cain ends in Tubalcain. This may be important.

For all of this it would be good to know Hebrew, obviously.

3rd lead:

All nine of the patriarchs before Noe (Adam to Lamech) are alive at the same time for 56 years. Adam dies. (This must have been a huge event, right?) 57 years later, Henoch is translated. 55 years later, there comes the second death, the death of Seth.

4th lead (this lead is not very good):

After the first five generations (Adam to Malaleel), weird things start happening to the numbers.
Jared: the ratio mentioned above plummets and reverses directions.
Henoch: the first man to die (or leave earth) before his fathers
Mathusala: the first man to out-live his son
Lamech: lives 777 years
Noah: has a very, very, very long first-part-of-life, which is also equal to the prominent number 500

Anyway, each of these leads probably goes nowhere.
 
I haven’t done the math myself but eneogh people have heard this that if the math was incorrect I think it would have been challenged.

If the weeks are added up, from creation week to the first raindrop of the flood, it equals the amount of seconds in a day. 60 x 60 x 24 = 86,400.

This can be calculated by using the numbers in genesis 5.

The guy who discovered this argued that the author did it purposely to protect the text from corruption. He used it as a proof that the modern notion of time division was known then. That his argument was a bit out in left field gave credence to the math I think.

If true, it’s a wonderfull revelation of the hypostatic union between human life and the cosmos experienced by the patriarchs of the first age. It also tells us that a day is an era or an age.
 
Interesting. Do you have a link or book title that goes into detail about this?
 
It’s from a former member of CA. A thread about 4 maybe 5 years ago. I’m hoping a detail such as the thread title or the members name will come to mind so I can do a search. The member got banned not long after.
 
Hello Ben Adam,

A couple years ago you suggested a connection between Cain’s genealogy, and Rev 17, where upon I showed the sensus plenior of Rev 17 was in fact dependent upon Gen 5 for solution.

Each of the names paints a picture of Christ, five were, Enoch is, and Lamech (Powerful) was Christ to come in power. Tubalcain was the eighth which was one of the seven…

Today I was reading in 1 Sam and came upon a second “witness” to this.

1 Sam 16:10 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The LORD hath not chosen these.
11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.

The number seven means complete or all.

Jesse made all of his sons pass before Samuel and yet David was not one of the seven. He was the eighth that was one of the seven. Just as Tubalcain was the eighth but part of the seven as a picture of Christ.

Although I have not posted this yet, I am doing a blog on sensus plenior at sensusplenior.net/?page_id=2

The answer to the OP is that the genealogy is there to solve the riddle of Rev 17.
 
Hello RC, I’m glad you posted.

The geneologies do tie in to that the 8th is of the seven pattern

Rev 17 is of course the invisible war that happens after all truth is fulfilled in Jesus. The war between deception and truth that progresses to a deception that would swallow everyone but for God’s grace not the elect.

As for geneology and the pattern in Rev 17

This how I’m looking at it currently.

Seth is the first born in his father’s image. He is one with his father and God as Ch 5 begins as a new creation in the image of God. So in the order established by Cain, Seth is the restored image of the father.

Cain entered into life as the possession of his mother and is a branch broken off having caused her hands to be stained with all the blood ever shed on earth.

But in Cain’s line, the queen is on the throne because the true generator of the human race has been blotted out. Cain is to his lineage in the place of Adam. This the queen who say’s I am on the throne and I don’t lack a husband and am not in mourning( is not barren)

If you don’t count the father’s of the lines and consider Cain as the father of his line, the eighth under Cain is Tubalcain.

Under Adam counting truthfully under the true generator including Abel and Cain the eighth is Enoch.

If we consider Seth in the line of Adam as father of the line so it would compare to Cain’s as Cain ordained, Noah is the eighth.

Remember the Samaritan woman at the well? Who had five husbands who were gone and the one she had she admitted was not her husband? The eighth and one of the seven is…All are one in Jesus?

The brother’s of David fit the pattern. Being the beginning of the Royal line Chosen by God that’s very significant. I would like to read more from you on that.

Sarah’s 7 husbands killed by Asmodeus untill Tobias comes along. This fits the 7 rejected . Note too if you haven’t already,the 7 days of creation that are one in the eighth and eternal day.

I agree the geneology points to Rev 17 and visa versa. They are keys that unlock each other’s doors.
 
OK, so you are still looking at a traditional time line with the end at at the end of time.

I see the end in the middle. Christ said it was finished, so everything after points back to the cross. Revelation turns into a recapitulation of the cross using symbolic language like the rosetta stone.

A single time line presumes that the intent of prophecy is to tell us what comes next. It does a lousy job of it since it is so hard to interpret. But if its intent is to tell us of Christ and his work on the cross, then it is easy to see him in it.

Good to see you again.
 
Remember the Samaritan woman at the well? Who had five husbands who were gone and the one she had she admitted was not her husband? The eighth and one of the seven is…All are one in Jesus?
Click to expand...
The seven are… Five is the number of man in the flesh, Christ in the flesh was rejected as the bridegroom. The ‘one that is represents’ Christ standing before her, whom she has not accepted. He speaks to her intimately in a way that men were not permitted to speak to women. Christ to come is the bridegroom.

Where did I miss the eighth?
 
rcjones said:
The seven are… Five is the number of man in the flesh, Christ in the flesh was rejected as the bridegroom. The ‘one that is represents’ Christ standing before her, whom she has not accepted. He speaks to her intimately in a way that men were not permitted to speak to women. Christ to come is the bridegroom.

Where did I miss the eighth?
Click to expand...
I considered the one she has now as one of the five and Jesus the one who be be there a short time who is going to his destruction and the eighth who will resurrect.
 
18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

I would have a hard time accepting your construct since five are identified in the past as husbands, and one who is identified in the present is not. I have to play by strict verbal rules.

Where you are seeing a battle between good and evil, I am seeing a wrestling with the flesh.
We share an instinctive (and therefor self-centered) nature with animals, but have the capability to live according to the word of God in Love (the essence of which is putting others first). The flesh only becomes evil when we place it’s lusts and needs above the Word.

We differ in interpretation but are observing many of the same phenomena in the patterns. I really appreciate your ability to correlate. We need to get together sometime when we can hash it out.
 
rcjones said:
18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

I would have a hard time accepting your construct since five are identified in the past as husbands, and one who is identified in the present is not. I have to play by strict verbal rules.

Where you are seeing a battle between good and evil, I am seeing a wrestling with the flesh.
We share an instinctive (and therefor self-centered) nature with animals, but have the capability to live according to the word of God in Love (the essence of which is putting others first). The flesh only becomes evil when we place it’s lusts and needs above the Word.

We differ in interpretation but are observing many of the same phenomena in the patterns. I really appreciate your ability to correlate. We need to get together sometime when we can hash it out.
Click to expand...
I think I exworded it wrong.
That would be good. The present husban is the sixth who like the five is not her husband. The seventh is yet to come…but we see his arrival in this event… seventh is yet to come but when he does he will be but a short time…he is also the eighth and one of the seven and he is going to his destruction. As number seven he is going to the cross to return as number eight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top