Trying to decide if being altruistic is worth it

[skigirl1689]

I’ve always been very giving and caring but I am starting to wonder if it is worth it. My sibling is graduating from college next week and there are limited tickets available. Someone may have to give up going. Needless to say my mom thinks I should give up going so my sibling’s future MIL can go. I feel pressured to give up going because my sibling doesn’t seem to like me all that much and I think would rather have the future MIL there. But my dad isn’t going to be happy if I give up my ticket as I am family and she is not (yet).

I’m really hoping by some miracle she can find another ticket… I wish I had someone objective to talk to because I feel like I’m oftentimes the one asked to sacrifice and I miss out on a lot I really want to do.

How do you balance being nice and selfless but still standing up for what you want? Sometimes it just feels easier not to put up a fight…

 

[newf]

What do you want to do? Do you want to go to the graduation??

 

[skigirl1689]

What do you want to do? Do you want to go to the graduation??

Yes, I do. I’d always planned on being there with our parents. However, I feel if I go and the other can’t, sis will be upset as the suggestion was made to her before me.

 

[newf]

Yes, I do. I’d always planned on being there with our parents. However, I feel if I go and the other can’t, sis will be upset as the suggestion was made to her before me.

Well, you are family. You count MORE than future MIL. And let sis have the nerve to ASK you to step aside, if she wants you out. In the meantime, just smile and be part of the family.

 

[EasterJoy]

Graduation is not in Hawaii, right? If I could have missed any graduation ceremony except my own and gotten family brownie points for it, I’d be all over that, just as a preface. I do not have any siblings that feel any differently. Even if graduation is in Hawaii, a free trip to Hawaii and not having to listen to someone give life advice to a college graduating class seems like a pretty good deal to me. So that is the caveat you have with my advice, which is that as long as you are not being excluded from other festivities, you ought to graciously bow out of sweating through the graduation ceremony. You will live, and you will not have done a good deed that will have gone unnoticed. Yes, you will be owed, my dear. If you want to play it that way, your sister will owe you one.

Let your sister give* her *tickets to whomever *she *wants, particularly if it will give your mother a leg up on knowing her counterpart in-law. Do you really want to be the guest that was not the first choice of your sister, your mother, and your sister’s future MIL? You will not come out of that with a rose-like odor, let’s admit that up front. IOW, from everyone’s point of view except yours, I don’t know that we have a selfless vs. assert-your-rights choice here. It is more like a selfish and entitled vs. decent good sport choice. Be a good sport, though, and you can play it a fashion that is not 100% altruistic, if you see fit. That much, you are definitely entitled to do.

 

[skigirl1689]

Graduation is not in Hawaii, right? If I could have missed any graduation ceremony except my own and gotten family brownie points for it, I’d be all over that, just as a preface. I do not have any siblings that feel any differently. Even if graduation is in Hawaii, a free trip to Hawaii and not having to listen to someone give life advice to a college graduating class seems like a pretty good deal to me. So that is the caveat you have with my advice, which is that as long as you are not being excluded from other festivities, you ought to graciously bow out of sweating through the graduation ceremony. You will live, and you will not have done a good deed that will have gone unnoticed. Yes, you will be owed, my dear. If you want to play it that way, your sister will owe you one.

Let your sister give* her *tickets to whomever *she *wants, particularly if it will give your mother a leg up on knowing her counterpart in-law. Do you really want to be the guest that was not the first choice of your sister, your mother, and your sister’s future MIL? IOW, from everyone’s point of view except yours, I don’t know that we have a selfless vs. assert-your-rights choice here. It is more like a selfish and entitled vs. decent good sport choice.

Good points! But then I’d be having to deal with my father, which is worse as we spend our days together! It’s a no-win. It was not my sister’s suggestion, it was my mom’s. No idea what she or her future MIL truly want.

I guess it’s something I was looking forward to as I can’t get out much besides weekly church. I’d either have to find someone to stay with, as I can’t be on my own if someone isn’t nearby (i.e. in town), or spend 4 hours in a car just to sit in sis’s apartment. So the alternatives are not great either.

 

[Xantippe]

“It was not my sister’s suggestion, it was my mom’s. No idea what she or her future MIL truly want.”

EasterJoy has some good thoughts. College graduations are terrible, even when you are the graduate. Speeches, speeches, speeches.

Here’s a possible plan:

Ask sister if she wants you to offer your ticket to the future MIL. If she says no, tell your mom you made the offer and go to the graduation. If sister says yes, ask the future MIL if she wants your ticket. If the future MIL says no thanks, tell your mom you made the offer and go to the graduation. If she says yes, she wants the ticket, cede your ticket to the future MIL.

I think it’s kind of dysfunctional that your parents didn’t get on the same page for this issue. They shouldn’t be putting you in a position where pleasing one means disobeying the other.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Sister trumps future mother in law. Sister trumps current mother in law too, unless it is about a Grandbaby. That is the objective hierarchy as I see it. Of course, objectivity is not a requirement here, and the reality is that the desires of the owners of the tickets trumps everything else. Which means that it is perfectly within the rights of your sister to choose to give those tickets to whoever she wishes.

Why this decision is being put on you is beyond me. Actually, I suppose your mom is trying to relieve the pressure from your sister, but frankly, it is her graduation, and seeing as she is graduating, she should be a grown up and take responsibility for her decisions.

Furthermore, would the future mother in law really want to be the reason the sister of the graduate couldn’t attend? My mother in law would never dream of taking the place of my sister at any event, and my mom would never dream of displacing one of my dh’s siblings either.

I would be inclined to just ignore the talk, and if my mom questioned me, I would tell her that I would love to go to the graduation, and that if my adult sister wants to invite someone other than me, then she can make that decision herself and let me know.

 

[Xantippe]

“I would tell her that I would love to go to the graduation, and that if my adult sister wants to invite someone other than me, then she can make that decision herself and let me know.”

Very true!

 

[EasterJoy]

Sister trumps future mother in law…

This is true…but as we can see, the OP has been put in the dreadful position of being “dead right” if she asserts her rightful position. If Mom were backing her up, that would be a different story, but as it is, she’s basically being told, “Go if you want, but you’ll be persona non grata if you do.” I think her only option is to say, “I don’t see that I’m being given much of a option except to take one for the team, but you guys owe me, both of you. Big time.”

Good points! But then I’d be having to deal with my father, which is worse as we spend our days together! It’s a no-win. It was not my sister’s suggestion, it was my mom’s. No idea what she or her future MIL truly want.

I guess it’s something I was looking forward to as I can’t get out much besides weekly church. I’d either have to find someone to stay with, as I can’t be on my own if someone isn’t nearby (i.e. in town), or spend 4 hours in a car just to sit in sis’s apartment. So the alternatives are not great either.

*Aha, the plot thickens! *My suggestion is that you very discretely ask your sister what she wants. If she also wants you to stay home, great, but the price is getting out somewhere else with you. That is only fair. If she would actually like you to please, please, please make a fuss so that she can refuse her future MIL and look as if she had no power over her willful sister, well, then, she can owe you for that, too. I wouldn’t be too obvious about looking after your own self-interest here, but play your cards right, and this does not have to be even one little bit about altruism. Rather, it can be about putting ticks in your emotional bank account with your sister. “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours, just tell me where your itch is and I’ll have you covered.” Do that.

 

[skigirl1689]

This is true…but as we can see, the OP has been put in the dreadful position of being “dead right” if she asserts her rightful position. If Mom were backing her up, that would be a different story, but as it is, she’s basically being told, “Go if you want, but you’ll be persona non grata if you do.” I think her only option is to say, “I don’t see that I’m being given much of a option except to take one for the team, but you guys owe me, both of you. Big time.”

*Aha, the plot thickens! *My suggestion is that you very discretely ask your sister what she wants. If she also wants you to stay home, great, but the price is getting out somewhere else with you. That is only fair. If she would actually like you to please, please, please make a fuss so that she can refuse her future MIL and look as if she had no power over her willful sister, well, then, she can owe you for that, too. I wouldn’t be too obvious about looking after your own self-interest here, but play your cards right, and this does not have to be even one little bit about altruism. Rather, it can be about putting ticks in your emotional bank account with your sister. “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours, just tell me where your itch is and I’ll have you covered.” Do that.

I think I’ll see where the cards fall…I am not going to push my will into the decision as it won’t help. I have no hope of anyone making it up to me if I don’t go, sis is moving away so she won’t have the opportunity to, but oh well, I’m learning not to expect much.

I’ll debate asking about it…I am just unsure if it would help or exacerbate the situation. I’m leaning towards the latter.

 

[R_C]

Trying to decide if being altruistic is worth it

I will forget for a minute that this question comes from someone who calls himself a Christian and address from the standpoint of reason alone.

The question is a valid question only under a utilitarian or hedonistic approach - that is, if we do things out of interest, for the sake of maximizing our gains, or the pleasantness of our life. In that case, sometimes it is worth it a lot, sometimes it isn’t at all.

Now, in general under the same utilitarian / hedonistic approach, being selfish is always worth it - in fact, one could not avoid being selfish under this approach.

Now, back to our religion: as a Christian, we don’t act for gain. We don’t do things for ourselves. “We are dead”, and “our body does not belong to us”. Or rather, “we are alive because Christ lives in us”, and “our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit”. We are reborn altruist, we live for the life of others, renouncing self, stepping out of all comfort zones, willing to become “men of sorrow accustomed to suffering” and “take up our cross” so that “in our flesh we may fulfill what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for His body, that is, the church” (Col 1:24), “enduring everything” so that others “may obtain the salvation” (2 Timothy 2:10).

The very rule of the disciple of Christ is: “Not what I want, Father, but what you want” - or, also: “God suffices, I shall not want”.

 

[Annie39]

I’ve always been very giving and caring but I am starting to wonder if it is worth it. My sibling is graduating from college next week and there are limited tickets available. Someone may have to give up going. Needless to say my mom thinks I should give up going so my sibling’s future MIL can go. I feel pressured to give up going because my sibling doesn’t seem to like me all that much and I think would rather have the future MIL there. But my dad isn’t going to be happy if I give up my ticket as I am family and she is not (yet).

I’m really hoping by some miracle she can find another ticket… I wish I had someone objective to talk to because I feel like I’m oftentimes the one asked to sacrifice and I miss out on a lot I really want to do.

How do you balance being nice and selfless but still standing up for what you want? Sometimes it just feels easier not to put up a fight…

I hope that this question is not out of line but I noticed that you are Lutheran. Have you ever thought of joining the Catholic Church? I ask this because you are on a Catholic forum and if you have I might have a suggestion here.

Also, I am an ex-Lutheran (Missouri Synod). You say that you are a Traditional Lutheran. I have never heard of TL is that a synod?

Annie

 

[EasterJoy]

I think I’ll see where the cards fall…I am not going to push my will into the decision as it won’t help. I have no hope of anyone making it up to me if I don’t go, sis is moving away so she won’t have the opportunity to, but oh well, I’m learning not to expect much.

I’ll debate asking about it…I am just unsure if it would help or exacerbate the situation. I’m leaning towards the latter.

I think you’re wise. If your sister wants you to come, she can call you to enlist your aid. If she doesn’t care, don’t put your neck out with your mom in order to go. Let the rest of the family hash it out. The price for those tickets is too steep!

I don’t know how many college graduations you have been forced to sit through, but they are way worse than high school graduations, you can trust us on that. If you have to miss one, don’t take it hard.

 

[skigirl1689]

I hope that this question is not out of line but I noticed that you are Lutheran. Have you ever thought of joining the Catholic Church? I ask this because you are on a Catholic forum and if you have I might have a suggestion here.

Also, I am an ex-Lutheran (Missouri Synod). You say that you are a Traditional Lutheran. I have never heard of TL is that a synod?

Annie

Not a synod, just my preference as the synod I belong to, when I cited it, tends to get people riled up on another sub-board so I decline to share it. I adhere to the Augsburg Confessions.

I like this board because it is charitable and supportive. I have explored why I cannot in good faith before God confess to become of the RCC but I fully respect the beliefs.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

This is true…but as we can see, the OP has been put in the dreadful position of being “dead right” if she asserts her rightful position. If Mom were backing her up, that would be a different story, but as it is, she’s basically being told, “Go if you want, but you’ll be persona non grata if you do.” I think her only option is to say, “I don’t see that I’m being given much of a option except to take one for the team, but you guys owe me, both of you. Big time.”

I agree that she is in a dreadful position, but I think it is first dreadful because the decision is being laid at her feet. What an immature way for her sister and mother to handle things! Based on other posts by the OP, there seems to be a pattern here of unkind and selfish behavior by the sister towards the OP, and of the sister not “manning up” to say what she wants, but leaving it to the mother to communicate to the sister. And the mother is doing it in a manipulative way. Whoever it is that gets to call the shots (could be the sister as the graduate, or the parents if they funded the education) should simply inform the OP if she is being given a ticket or not.

That said, “go if you want, but you’ll be persona non grata…” may be right as well. For that reason, I probably wouldn’t want to go anyway. But personally, I’d be pretty stinkin’ mad that I was put in that position, and would let my mother know that I don’t like being put in this position, and that if my sister is grown up enough to have a degree and get married, she is grown up enough to make this decision and inform me of it, rather than playing games with me.

My suggestion is that you very discretely ask your sister what she wants. If she also wants you to stay home, great, but the price is getting out somewhere else with you. That is only fair. If she would actually like you to please, please, please make a fuss so that she can refuse her future MIL and look as if she had no power over her willful sister, well, then, she can owe you for that, too. I wouldn’t be too obvious about looking after your own self-interest here, but play your cards right, and this does not have to be even one little bit about altruism. Rather, it can be about putting ticks in your emotional bank account with your sister. “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours, just tell me where your itch is and I’ll have you covered.” Do that.

Well, based on previous posts, I don’t think the sister is likely to do a lot of return back scratching for the OP. I think that the OP might be better off recognizing that these relationships are not what she hopes they will be, and adjusting her expectations. Given that there is a pattern of manipulative back door communication, and a pattern of expecting the OP to be ok with getting treated poorly, it would seem to me that setting some boundaries would be helpful. That’s why I am suggesting she turn the decision over to the sister, and not let sister/mother wimp out of making their own decisions and stand by them.

 

[Aggies08]

Call sis and ask her who she wants to go.

“Hey, did you want MIL or I attending? I’d be happy to support you, but if you prefer MIL, I’ll understand. Mom and Dad are telling me opposite things, so I thought I’d check with you, since you are the one graduating!”

Then, go to the celebratory dinner (or whatever they do) after.

 

[skigirl1689]

I will forget for a minute that this question comes from someone who calls himself a Christian and address from the standpoint of reason alone.

The question is a valid question only under a utilitarian or hedonistic approach - that is, if we do things out of interest, for the sake of maximizing our gains, or the pleasantness of our life. In that case, sometimes it is worth it a lot, sometimes it isn’t at all.

Now, in general under the same utilitarian / hedonistic approach, being selfish is always worth it - in fact, one could not avoid being selfish under this approach.

Now, back to our religion: as a Christian, we don’t act for gain. We don’t do things for ourselves. “We are dead”, and “our body does not belong to us”. Or rather, “we are alive because Christ lives in us”, and “our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit”. We are reborn altruist, we live for the life of others, renouncing self, stepping out of all comfort zones, willing to become “men of sorrow accustomed to suffering” and “take up our cross” so that “in our flesh we may fulfill what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for His body, that is, the church” (Col 1:24), “enduring everything” so that others “may obtain the salvation” (2 Timothy 2:10).

The very rule of the disciple of Christ is: “Not what I want, Father, but what you want” - or, also: “God suffices, I shall not want”.

Please don’t assume I “claim” to be a Christian, I am a Christian. I apologize for the poor thread title, goodness.

I know what Christ demands. Sorry the title is unChristian, but you do not know me and how I live my life. I try to do what is best for others all the time but at some point being manipulated by others is toxic and I needed advice from others, not an attack on my faith, which is the purpose of the forum.

Blessings!

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree that she is in a dreadful position, but I think it is first dreadful because the decision is being laid at her feet. What an immature way for her sister and mother to handle things! Based on other posts by the OP, there seems to be a pattern here of unkind and selfish behavior by the sister towards the OP, and of the sister not “manning up” to say what she wants, but leaving it to the mother to communicate to the sister. And the mother is doing it in a manipulative way. Whoever it is that gets to call the shots (could be the sister as the graduate, or the parents if they funded the education) should simply inform the OP if she is being given a ticket or not.

That said, “go if you want, but you’ll be persona non grata…” may be right as well. For that reason, I probably wouldn’t want to go anyway. But personally, I’d be pretty stinkin’ mad that I was put in that position, and would let my mother know that I don’t like being put in this position, and that if my sister is grown up enough to have a degree and get married, she is grown up enough to make this decision and inform me of it, rather than playing games with me.

Well, based on previous posts, I don’t think the sister is likely to do a lot of return back scratching for the OP. I think that the OP might be better off recognizing that these relationships are not what she hopes they will be, and adjusting her expectations. Given that there is a pattern of manipulative back door communication, and a pattern of expecting the OP to be ok with getting treated poorly, it would seem to me that setting some boundaries would be helpful. That’s why I am suggesting she turn the decision over to the sister, and not let sister/mother wimp out of making their own decisions and stand by them.

She has a right to be upset, but it won’t do her a bit of good. I trust her sense that she’s better off not calling her sister directly, too. I’m thinking that this comes from experience. At any rate, on the scale of things to get worked up about, graduation is not one of them, not if the graduate herself is not lobbying and begging for you to go.

When it comes to the Golden Rule, I don’t know that an argument can be made for or against giving in on this one. This is more like the pearls-before-swine conundrum. If no good will come of doing good, then save your charity and keep moving, and the same goes for making a brave stand in a losing battle. It is better to retreat in order to fight on a more favorable day. I think she can navigate this with the goal of reducing strife and keeping her own head low, and she’ll not disappoint Heaven one bit. She could make a Charge of the Light Brigade, but I think that glorious stands are grossly overrated. Not every memorable outing is a good one!! If you won’t become an actual martyr, the farther you stay from being any other kind of martyr or scapegoat or pain-in-anyone’s-neck, the better.

 

[Xantippe]

“Now, back to our religion: as a Christian, we don’t act for gain. We don’t do things for ourselves.”

Yes, we do. We do so every day. We decide whether or not to take an umbrella to work, what to have for lunch, what color tie to wear, go to medical appointments, and how much to charge for our services. We can’t act only for gain or do things only for our own benefit, but we count, too, and we deserve some consideration.

The difficulty with the OP’s case is that it’s not just her interest versus everybody else’s interest. We know that the mom wants her not to come but the dad wants her to come (so she can’t simply obey her parents–they disagree), but we have no idea what her sister and the sister’s future MIL actually want. It’s not out of the question that the future MIL is dying to find an excuse not to come, or that the sister wants the OP there, rather than the future MIL. As people have mentioned, college graduations are fairly grueling events, and not everybody is dying to go to as many as possible.

There’s actually an interesting passage in C.S. Lewis’s The Screwtape Letters where the devil Screwtape teaches his nephew about something called the Generous Conflict Illusion, where everybody struggles to be unselfish, nobody will say what they actually want, and in the end, tempers flare and nobody gets what they want because nobody would say what their actual preference was. Screwtape also says that it was a great victory on the part of Hell to replace the idea of “charity” with “unselfishness,” subtly moving the focus from benefit to the other to one’s own “unselfishness.” I think we’ve all met people (especially older women) who seem to be dying to inconvenience themselves for our sake, even though it’s the last thing we want.