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Chancey0501
Guest
Hey this is my first post. I am trying to disprove once saved always saved to my sister in law, I need help and useful information.
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nickybr38
Guest
The verse that pops into my head right away is the verse that says: Some will call “Father Father” but He will not know them. It’s in the New Testament but I don’t know the verse off the top of my head and of course I’m paraphrasing it. ):
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Zenas
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I don’t think you will convince her but the strongest scriptural proof I know of is Matthew 18:23-35 (parable on forgiveness).
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Sherry_G
Guest
Even St. Paul asked for prayers as he worried about his own salvation. Since he was handpicked by Jesus, why in the world would he worry if once saved, always saved was accurate?
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Luvtosew
Guest
What does this mean, no matter what they do they are saved? Sinning doesn’t matter?
I really don’t know what they mean by this. Surely a person can be saved and then become a grave sinner and fall away from God, and they feel they are stilled saved?
I really don’t know what they mean by this. Surely a person can be saved and then become a grave sinner and fall away from God, and they feel they are stilled saved?
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Zenas
Guest
You got it. The idea is that when a person is saved all sins are forgiven–past, present and future.
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Luvtosew
Guest
I see so even if a person falls away from God and lives a terribly sinful life they still have salvation. That sure takes the pressure off. Narrow is the gate is the only one that comes to my mind.
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
A free CD on the subject of Once Saved, Always Saved is available from Catholic apologist John Martignone’s website, www.biblechristiansociety.com. He gives many Bible verses against it.
Since the Bible can be interpreted to fit anyone’s favorite heresy, I prefer historical arguments against OSAS. Jesus and the Apostles didn’t teach it. There is no record of it before the 16th century and the ‘Deformation.’
Protestants disagree among themselves about OSAS. I have a book, Believer’s Conditional Security, by Dan Corner, a Protestant minister, who gives 800 pages full of reasons why OSAS isn’t true. It’s published by Evangelical Outreach. Here’s their website, which has more anti-OSAS material - evangelicaloutreach.org/.
Since the Bible can be interpreted to fit anyone’s favorite heresy, I prefer historical arguments against OSAS. Jesus and the Apostles didn’t teach it. There is no record of it before the 16th century and the ‘Deformation.’
Protestants disagree among themselves about OSAS. I have a book, Believer’s Conditional Security, by Dan Corner, a Protestant minister, who gives 800 pages full of reasons why OSAS isn’t true. It’s published by Evangelical Outreach. Here’s their website, which has more anti-OSAS material - evangelicaloutreach.org/.
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bmullins
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I usually start with: If once your saved you’re always saved… why does Jesus warn us that Blasphemy cannot be forgiven?
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pablope
Guest
Have her explain this passage from Hebrews 10:
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Who are those who have received teh knowlegdge of truth? Deliberately sinning means the sacrifice for sins (Christ sacrifice) will not apply to them.
Or Romans 11:
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
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WesleyF
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STOP!!
Before you proceed with a discussion on whether once saved is always saved, ask the question, “What is salvation? What are we saved from?”
She will probably say, “Entry into heaven” or “Saved from God’s wrath.” or “saved from hell”.
Then point out to her that that is not the meaning of salvation. Salvation means freedom from sins. “he will save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21)
This means that salvation is really the forgiveness of sins. But there is ample evidence in the Bible that once you’re forgiven of your sins, you can still fall into sin (1 John 5:15-16) and be spiritually dead.
If you need more verses, please let us know. It’s 3 am now and I am going to sleep.
Before you proceed with a discussion on whether once saved is always saved, ask the question, “What is salvation? What are we saved from?”
She will probably say, “Entry into heaven” or “Saved from God’s wrath.” or “saved from hell”.
Then point out to her that that is not the meaning of salvation. Salvation means freedom from sins. “he will save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21)
This means that salvation is really the forgiveness of sins. But there is ample evidence in the Bible that once you’re forgiven of your sins, you can still fall into sin (1 John 5:15-16) and be spiritually dead.
If you need more verses, please let us know. It’s 3 am now and I am going to sleep.
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Luvtosew
Guest
I was curious about once saved always saved so I went to the Southern Baptist Website.
They are the 2nd largest group of Christians in the US, 2nd to Catholics.
Anyway its not as cut as dry as above, they believe that when one is saved, they will follow Christ, and they also believe in works, charity type of works, but that works will not save one, but because we Love Christ we do chariable acts automatically.
they have 2 sacraments, Baptism and the Lords Supper.
I have been thinking about this since I read it on this post, now I’m sure there are Catholics and Baptists that have fallen away to live a life of sin, hopefully they will repent,
But really do they believe much different than us, they don’t have all the sacrements we do, but I wonder what the difference is really between people who live a Christian life.
I don’t know. obviously.
I want to add it must be a wonderful thing to really realize no matter what you do God loves you, kinda freeing, does it lead to a sinful life, I maybe think the opposite for most Baptists, they love God and want to do what is pleasing to him, because he loves them so much.
They are the 2nd largest group of Christians in the US, 2nd to Catholics.
Anyway its not as cut as dry as above, they believe that when one is saved, they will follow Christ, and they also believe in works, charity type of works, but that works will not save one, but because we Love Christ we do chariable acts automatically.
they have 2 sacraments, Baptism and the Lords Supper.
I have been thinking about this since I read it on this post, now I’m sure there are Catholics and Baptists that have fallen away to live a life of sin, hopefully they will repent,
But really do they believe much different than us, they don’t have all the sacrements we do, but I wonder what the difference is really between people who live a Christian life.
I don’t know. obviously.
I want to add it must be a wonderful thing to really realize no matter what you do God loves you, kinda freeing, does it lead to a sinful life, I maybe think the opposite for most Baptists, they love God and want to do what is pleasing to him, because he loves them so much.
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FightingFat
Guest
This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.**I was curious about once saved always saved so I went to the Southern Baptist Website.
They are the 2nd largest group of Christians in the US, 2nd to Catholics.
Anyway its not as cut as dry as above, they believe that when one is saved, they will follow Christ, and they also believe in works, charity type of works, but that works will not save one, but because we Love Christ we do chariable acts automatically.
they have 2 sacraments, Baptism and the Lords Supper.
I have been thinking about this since I read it on this post, now I’m sure there are Catholics and Baptists that have fallen away to live a life of sin, hopefully they will repent,
But really do they believe much different than us, they don’t have all the sacrements we do, but I wonder what the difference is really between people who live a Christian life.
I don’t know. obviously.
I want to add it must be a wonderful thing to really realize no matter what you do God loves you, kinda freeing, does it lead to a sinful life, I maybe think the opposite for most Baptists, they love God and want to do what is pleasing to him, because he loves them so much.
.8Lumen Gentium n
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Zenas
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I don’t think you spent enought time on their website. The Southern Baptist statement of faith is called “The Baptist Faith and Message.” Here is what it says about OSAS, or “eternal security of the believer” as they prefer to call it:I was curious about once saved always saved so I went to the Southern Baptist Website.
They are the 2nd largest group of Christians in the US, 2nd to Catholics.
Anyway its not as cut as dry as above, they believe that when one is saved, they will follow Christ, and they also believe in works, charity type of works, but that works will not save one, but because we Love Christ we do chariable acts automatically.
they have 2 sacraments, Baptism and the Lords Supper.
I have been thinking about this since I read it on this post, now I’m sure there are Catholics and Baptists that have fallen away to live a life of sin, hopefully they will repent,
But really do they believe much different than us, they don’t have all the sacrements we do, but I wonder what the difference is really between people who live a Christian life.
I don’t know. obviously.
This says you can fall into sin but you can never fall away from the state of grace.
You’re right about that. I don’t know any Baptists who regard “being saved” as a license to sin, but I believe it causes them to regard sinful behavior less seriously than they should.
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FightingFat
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That’s explained beautifully in Pope Benedict XVI’s book on St. Paul:
amazon.com/Saint-Paul-Pope-Benedict-XVI/dp/1586173677/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326375291&sr=1-2
He discusses where the protestant idea of salvation comes from and you come out of the discussion realising that the main difference is a semantic one.
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Luvtosew
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Well I seen nothing about Eternal Security on it (I may have missed it) , so basically no matter how one lives their life they are saved even if they don’t repent. Yes I have a problem with that.
Since we all fall into sin and well are all sinners, I do believe we need to repent., continously in our life, as I’m sure many Baptists repent, but maybe many don’t due to eternal security.
Well thanks for clearing that up.
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Calgar
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(insert buzzer sound here)
Not sacraments. Ordinances.
sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=964
Here’s an official document on the matter
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Calgar
Guest
Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Lot’s of people claim to be Christians, but many aren’t really.
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fbl9
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First get her defination of osas.cause there are some osas that say if one falls into a major sin they weren’t saved in the first place. others say it matters not what you do you are still saved.
Then you can go from there.
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